front sprocket part number question

[Val]

Yeah it's all food for thought and down to personal preference

What's the difference in front and rear sprocket numbers? I see some kits have 15 & 48, just wondering if it's worth going for different sizes and what it'd do?

Good question play with this and see the difference: http://www.gearingcommander.com/

Some people do 1-2 tooth more on front and 1-2 tooth less rear. That basically will make the RPMs lower. The gear commander will give you the difference and few nice graphs.

Here is  my understanding how the secondary transmission ratio and acceleration works.

If I increase my secondary transmission ratio say from stock 15/48 I go for 13/53 sprockets, the bike will have more acceleration and pulling force. Not torque. Torque always stays the same for same RPMs not affected by ratio. Obviously you can't change the engine HP either. But you can change the way you transmit the torque to the wheel.

Say with the stock 15/48 in second gear doing the same RPM say 4600 I will have 10 fts2(foot per second squared) acceleration going with 31 mph and the pulling force will be 210 lbf.

With the custom 13/53 in second gear doing the same RPM say 4600 I will have 14 fts2(foot per second squared) acceleration going with 25 mph and the pulling force will be 270 lbf.

Most people do the opposite which means less acceleration more speed with lower RPMs. Means the highway ride will be more relaxed and according to some guys Fazer has some vibration around exactly 70mph with standard transmission. Making say 17/47 will make RPMs lower on 70mph and will make the vibration disappear. But IMO the slow town ride will be not so comfty.

There is one more important thing - ratio also affects chain wear. Look at gear commander wear table. Standard ratio 15/48 means front sprocket will do 3 turns before the same chain link hits again same tooth, rear 24 turns before same tooth hits same link or [size=0.7em]Both F&R  each 24 turns[/size]. If you do 17/47 that changes to 17 and 47 turns and for [size=0.7em]Both F&R ecah 799 turns!

This will make the wear less with some custom settings.
[/size]
Here is standard ratio speed gear shift chart:



You calculate ratio by dividing the sprocket tooths, so standard is 48/15=3.2, top speed 143mph on 11500 RPM.

If you do higher ratio say 53/13=4.08 here is the graph you basically get more aggresive ride with a lot of acceleration but shorter gear and the max speed on 6th will be lower on the graph it says top speed 112mph. That is what motogymkhana guys do. They get massive acceleration with massive rear sprockets, probably massive fun too  :lol



And here is more reasonable for relaxed highway ride lower ratio for 17/47=2.76, you have longer gears and higher top speed on 6th 165mph on 11500. I doubt you can do that speed, nevertheless the gears are longer with higher speeds, see on 1st you can do 62mph on 11500. More people will short shift means you do not wait to use full gear capablities till 115000 RPMs you shift earlier.



Here is performance analyser for accelerations, pulling force and speeds depending on your final drive transmission ratio:

http://motorcycleperformanceanalyzer.com...azer-1998/

More problems what to choose I guess LOL

All the thanks go to J_Dub for providing the link to Wemoto site where they have all JT sprockets range with custom tooths count too :-)

[url=http://"http://motorcycleperformanceanalyzer.com/yamaha/fzs-600-fazer-1998/"]
I'd get one of these; http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_6...ront_-_jt/ and don't forget to buy a tab washer too!
[/url]

[url=http://"http://motorcycleperformanceanalyzer.com/yamaha/fzs-600-fazer-1998/"]

I may go with 1 tooth less on the rear for now. Which is miniscule change for ratio, but about 7 times better wear.

Forget about the initial parts number question, I am completely undecided now what sprockets I should choose now  :lol [/url]

[sinto607276]

So, if i read this correctly, put into laymen terms....

Fewer front/more rear = faster acceleration

More front/fewer rear = slower acceleration

But, torque and bhp can't change but I'll see a difference on the rev counter?

Personally, I'm not interested in better graphs on a dyno reading or anything, it's not a sports bike, I just want to make it comfy for commuting and weekend runs with mates etc.

[Val]

So, if i read this correctly, put into laymen terms....

Fewer front/more rear = faster acceleration

More front/fewer rear = slower acceleration

But, torque and bhp can't change but I'll see a difference on the rev counter?

Personally, I'm not interested in better graphs on a dyno reading or anything, it's not a sports bike, I just want to make it comfy for commuting and weekend runs with mates etc.

There is no ideal gear ratio, ratio is always tradeoff between comfty highway OR comfty slow speed commuting. I guess staying with standard ratio 15/48 is probably the best compromise. Unless you do extensive highway riding then lower ratio like 17/47 may help. High extreme ratio like 13/53 is for moto gymkhana wannabes :-)

I may be wrong I am laymen too just too much nerd I guess LOL

[sinto607276]

I guess staying with standard ratio 15/48 is probably the best compromise. Unless you do extensive highway riding then lower ratio like 17/47 may help. High extreme ratio like 13/53 is for moto gymkhana wannabes :-)

I'm happy just tootling away, I like the odd blast but nothing gp style :angel :rolleyes

I may be wrong I am laymen too just too much nerd I guess LOL

But your nerdiness will help others :lol

You said earlier about a lower rear sprocket by 1, would you also increase the front by 1 or leave that at 15?

[unfazed]

The correct sprocket for the FZS600 is the 4TV one (4TV is Thundercat model code from which the FZS600 engine is derived and shares many  gearbox parts), the 3HE one is for the FZR600.

It probably will fit as JT Sprockets list the same sprocket for both bike, but there must be some difference for Yamaha have to different part numbers on them.

[Val]

[quote author=Val link=topic=17216.msg198486#msg198486 date=1433612613]
I guess staying with standard ratio 15/48 is probably the best compromise. Unless you do extensive highway riding then lower ratio like 17/47 may help. High extreme ratio like 13/53 is for moto gymkhana wannabes :-)

I'm happy just tootling away, I like the odd blast but nothing gp style :angel :rolleyes

I may be wrong I am laymen too just too much nerd I guess LOL

But your nerdiness will help others :lol

You said earlier about a lower rear sprocket by 1, would you also increase the front by 1 or leave that at 15?

[/quote]

Why not 16/47 seems good combination in fact here is nice article from a guy the has chosen exactly that combo.

According to gear commander this will give you 8% decrease in RPMs and about 10 mph more top speed.

[anutz]

my god....this stuff is complex....back to school i think....intresting however  :lol

[sinto607276]

Why not 16/47 seems good combination in fact here is nice article from a guy the has chosen exactly that combo.

According to gear commander this will give you 8% decrease in RPMs and about 10 mph more top speed.

That looks just the ticket,  although I could do with increasing my top speed to 70 :eek I'm not that bothered about that :lol

He did say he should of went for 2+ on the front, guessing that would mean 2- on the rear. But he also says he bought two different makes of sprockets,  think I'll just look for complete set, now question is....fixed chain or rivet? Swing arm off or in situ? :wall

[sinto607276]

my god....this stuff is complex....back to school i think....intresting however  :lol

:book :lol

[riedrider]

now question is....fixed chain or rivet? Swing arm off or in situ?

I rivetted mine today:
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,6412.4525.html
But if the complete set of chain an sprockets is worn it would make sense to put the swingarm off and check the bearings and regrease them. For rivetting you need a good tool. I would not use the two hammer method....

[sinto607276]

now question is....fixed chain or rivet? Swing arm off or in situ?

I rivetted mine today:
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,6412.4525.html


Looks good riedrider

But if the complete set of chain an sprockets is worn it would make sense to put the swingarm off and check the bearings and regrease them. For rivetting you need a good tool. I would not use the two hammer method....

Nope, I wouldn't use the two hammer method, it's not a push bike after all.
Don't think my sprockets are worn, I'm thinking I'll get away with it till winter then I can strip the whole lot off and do it when bike is off the road anyway.

[darrsi]

[quote author=sinto link=topic=17216.msg198490#msg198490 date=1433613695]
[quote author=Val link=topic=17216.msg198486#msg198486 date=1433612613]
I guess staying with standard ratio 15/48 is probably the best compromise. Unless you do extensive highway riding then lower ratio like 17/47 may help. High extreme ratio like 13/53 is for moto gymkhana wannabes :-)

I'm happy just tootling away, I like the odd blast but nothing gp style :angel :rolleyes

I may be wrong I am laymen too just too much nerd I guess LOL

But your nerdiness will help others :lol

You said earlier about a lower rear sprocket by 1, would you also increase the front by 1 or leave that at 15?

[/quote]

Why not 16/47 seems good combination in fact here is nice article from a guy the has chosen exactly that combo.

According to gear commander this will give you 8% decrease in RPMs and about 10 mph more top speed.
[/quote]


Do you not think that the Japanese tried every combination, but eventually came up with 15/48 as the best result for this bike?


I dunno what your bike is like, but mine is pretty quick off the mark when asked, and i've had 135mph with a passenger on board, with more available.


It really doesn't need tinkering with, and the speed limit is 70mph, apparently, so just ride and enjoy, it is what it is.

[sinto607276]

Do you not think that the Japanese tried every combination, but eventually came up with 15/48 as the best result for this bike?


Nah, as it's been said on other threads, it was slung together from other parts they had lying about, bit off this, bit off that, hence we are now all looking at different ways to 'help' :lol

Funny enough, on other issues regarding certain things, people mention, improvements and what that certain part came from, ie divvy front fender, r6 engine/gearing, r1 brakes etc



I dunno what your bike is like, but mine is pretty quick off the mark when asked, and i've had 135mph with a passenger on board, with more available.

My bike is fast as it's red and doesn't need any more speed but it's nice to know what can be done and certainly makes for interesting reading :book


It really doesn't need tinkering with, and the speed limit is 70mph, apparently, so just ride and enjoy, it is what it is.

That's fair enough, as I'm sure everyone rides like an :angel :lol

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=17216.msg198579#msg198579 date=1433671906]

Do you not think that the Japanese tried every combination, but eventually came up with 15/48 as the best result for this bike?


Nah, as it's been said on other threads, it was slung together from other parts they had lying about, bit off this, bit off that, hence we are now all looking at different ways to 'help' :lol

Funny enough, on other issues regarding certain things, people mention, improvements and what that certain part came from, ie divvy front fender, r6 engine/gearing, r1 brakes etc



I dunno what your bike is like, but mine is pretty quick off the mark when asked, and i've had 135mph with a passenger on board, with more available.

My bike is fast as it's red and doesn't need any more speed but it's nice to know what can be done and certainly makes for interesting reading


It really doesn't need tinkering with, and the speed limit is 70mph, apparently, so just ride and enjoy, it is what it is.

That's fair enough, as I'm sure everyone rides like an :angel :lol

[/quote]


Do you not see my point though, if you want a quicker FZS600, buy an FZS1000 and save yourself a lot of kerfuffle.  :look

[sinto607276]

Yeah I totally see your point, but hopefully you see there are people who also like to know exactly how things work and like to get dirty with the workings.
If we all just went out and bought other things just because we could, this forum probably wouldn't exist

[darrsi]

It all stems back to the days when you bought your first 50cc then tried to turn it into a Z1000  :lol

[sinto607276]

It all stems back to the days when you bought your first 50cc then tried to turn it into a Z1000  :lol

What do you mean tried? I'm sure I done that! :lol

[Val]

[quote author=Val link=topic=17216.msg198523#msg198523 date=1433623832]

Why not 16/47 seems good combination in fact here is nice article from a guy the has chosen exactly that combo.

According to gear commander this will give you 8% decrease in RPMs and about 10 mph more top speed.

That looks just the ticket,  although I could do with increasing my top speed to 70 :eek I'm not that bothered about that :lol

He did say he should of went for 2+ on the front, guessing that would mean 2- on the rear. But he also says he bought two different makes of sprockets,  think I'll just look for complete set, now question is....fixed chain or rivet? Swing arm off or in situ? :wall
[/quote]

riedrider has very sound advice to get off the swingarm and grease the bearings which I will follow. Also removing the swingarm means you can just get the chain off without splitting it, and you do not need to use a grinder to get the heads of the pins off before you split the old chain. The old chain in my case is the original OEM with hard-head pins which will make the split a major pain and I do not have a grinder too.

About fixed or rivet, actually most good chains that I found are sold split. The question here is what type are the master rivet connector pins.

There are two types: soft-head pins which are hollow and much more easier to rivet and the good rivet tools for that are about £30 like JT Pro Chain Tool Kit, and hard-head pins need expensive Whale tool.

For example I am looking for Tsubaki chains because the price matches the cheapest low strength chains and the quality and strength matches expensive ones like D.I.D.

I found Tsubaki chain installation videos very helpful.

Tsubaki Alpha XRG X-ring 530 110 is £83 soft-head pin connector rivet link hollow:

http://www.bandcexpress.co.uk/buy/Tsubak...10.953#eq1

Tsubaki Omega O-ring 530 110 is £61 hard-head pin connector master rivet link needs whale tool!

Hence I decided to go for Alpha XRG because I am lazy and want to do the things easier  :lol

[sinto607276]

Geez Val, that's confused me even more now :lol