05-03-20, 10:07 PM
This thread's about Bercow as well as Patel. Notice how they're completely silent regarding him 
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twats...
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05-03-20, 10:30 PM
Quote:Quote from: mtread on Today at 08:29:55 PMQuote<blockquote> But being sworn at and ridiculed by an incompetent amateurish iidiot,I would have thought that most ministers, particularly young, ambitious, relative inexperienced ones, would value their civil servants, and perhaps regularly seek their advice and check that they are following correct procedure. I think that when a civil servant such as Sir Philip Rutnam resigns, a man with considerable service and experience, and is doing so as he alleges bullying, well it suggests something is seriously wrong. It is quite unprecedented. 
05-03-20, 11:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-03-20, 11:41 PM by fazersharp.)
(05-03-20, 10:30 PM)VNA link Wrote: I think that when a civil servant such as Sir Philip Rutnam resigns, a man with considerable service and experience, and is doing so as he alleges bullying,But in his statement he is not the one being bullied. He has said that he received reports from people lower down the civil service ranks. He just keeps mentioning "briefing against him". Sounds he does not care for the staff under him and its all about himself he is bothered about.
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.
06-03-20, 12:22 AM
Quote:But in his statement he is not the one being bullied. He has said that he received reports from people lower down the civil service ranks. He just keeps mentioning "briefing against him". Sounds he does not care for the staff under him and its all about himself he is bothered about.It's abundantly clear where the problem lies. 
06-03-20, 12:44 AM
Quote: That's just the problem with the lifers in the civil service - don't like change - won't change, everyone else is incompetent. No we don't do that -- blah blah. Its time these people were gone as they are part of the problem that stifled this country for 3 yearsI don't think you understand the role of the Civil Service and its relationship with Ministers. Ministers and in fact Governments come and go. 'Lifers' (as you call them) in the Civil Service have to provide continuity for the country. Civil Servants provide options to Ministers Ministers decide direction and policy Civil Servants then have to implement that policy It's when Ministers 'demand' impossible results, overturn previous decisions, don't understand the consequences of their decisions and then blame Civil Servants for the outcome, that we end up in this situation. There have been some very good Tory Ministers recently. Patel isn't one of them. 
06-03-20, 06:56 AM
06-03-20, 11:29 AM
But it's true. None are 100% good or bad. But on balance, the Tories are bound to be worse :lol
06-03-20, 11:36 AM
06-03-20, 12:04 PM
Being a Councillor for over 10 years and dealing with Civil Servants all the time in local government, I found that there was a tendency to say no to what I would say was reasonable requests from Councillors to get problems solved, our civil servants hid behind previous decisions that the Council had made on certain issues years and years ago, and I found that only a small percentage of our civil servants would try and come up with a "lets see just what we can do" attitude to try and resolve some of the issues that I found myself dealing with.
06-03-20, 01:00 PM
Quote: Wait until VNA gets home and sees that! . What I will say, is that the good ones I was referring to are all now ex Conservatives. Perhaps that tells you something :b
06-03-20, 02:59 PM
It's too late for the old 'ex Conservatives' ruse, he'll see straight through it. Look, do as I did when I slipped up on Brexit and say you were drunk
(06-03-20, 01:00 PM)mtread link Wrote:Quote: Wait until VNA gets home and sees that! . Is there such a thing as a good ex Conservative, or some very good Tory Ministers recently?. VNA?
07-03-20, 01:04 AM
Quote from: mtread on Today at 12:00:43 PM Quote:<blockquote>Quote<blockquote> Wait until VNA gets home and sees that! . </blockquote> Well I remember standing outside the Home Office in Glasgow one cold night some 15 years ago. We were holding a vigil against dawn raids on ‘failed asylum seekers’ in the city. Umm somebody had wrapped some heavy-duty chains around the main gate. The Home Office had a habit of sending it’s ‘immigration enforcement officers’ out in the small hours to smash down the doors of families and detain them for deportation. The vans were ready to go, but well that night, and indeed night after night they were unable to go anywhere. Amongst the many standing on the street in protest were some interesting people, one was a Tory MP. But what I think the point Mtread was making, is that many Tory MP’s can operate within the rules, and also carry out their work in a reasonable manner whilst respecting those that work with them and for them. It’s not too much to ask. Preti Patel, it appears is not one such person, not only does it appear that she is unable to behave reasonably with respect to those that work with her or for her, but she seems to think that she is exempted from the general rules of government.
07-03-20, 01:09 AM
07-03-20, 01:18 AM
(07-03-20, 01:04 AM)VNA link Wrote: But what I think the point Mtread was making, is that many Tory MP’s can operate within the rules, and also carry out their work in a reasonable manner whilst respecting those that work with them and for them. It’s not too much to ask.Do you think that should also apply to the Speakers Of The House Of Commons?
07-03-20, 12:28 PM
07-03-20, 08:04 PM
Quote: Do you think that should also apply to the Speakers Of The House Of Commons?It should apply to everyone. You should respect people you work with, even when you disagree with them. Not bully them or belittle them in front of others. Of course it's too late to sack the previous Speaker. It's not too late to sack Patel 
07-03-20, 09:17 PM
One other thing to take into account :
This year's Civil Servants' pay rise - 1% MPs' pay rise - 3.1% |
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