Oil pressure switch

[fazersharp]

[quote author=limax2 link=topic=24849.msg290508#msg290508 date=1547325316]
[quote author=BBROWN1664 link=topic=24849.msg290453#msg290453 date=1547244272]
[quote author=limax2 link=topic=24849.msg290450#msg290450 date=1547242969]
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]

Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM
[/quote]


The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge. 
[/quote]


Been a while for my bike now but from memory when my bike was cold the oil was above the window.
[/quote]Yes it is or very near the top.

[YamFazFan]

I've only ever checked my Fazer oil level before start up ie engine stone cold ( I didn't know all this info about turning off and waiting a couple of mins).


It's always pretty much at the top of the sight glass.

[tommyardin]

When doing an oil change my engine is still hot after draining old oil out, new filter on, new fresh oil up to the upper mark on the engine, fire it up, filter fills, shut off after a minute, leave bike 5 mins and it usually takes about 75 cc to to get it back up to upper mark. As others have said I never have to put oil in the engine between changes (often only 1500 miles) but oil that comes out of the Fazer goes in my mowers and Honda C90 also is it for topping up my diesel Combo van.

[Fazerider]

The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge. 

The calculation sounds ok, but it’s only half the story as the aluminium alloy cases expand with heat too... so the sump gets bigger. :lol

[darrsi]

My blind 2.8 litres, then forgetting about it for 4000 miles as long as there isn't any leaks is starting to sound like the way forward  :lol

[Pal]

So from what others are saying, the egg cup left in the galleries after several minutes after running the bike up to temp, is offset by the egg cup of expansion of the oil. When cold the egg cup that was in the galleries is now in the sump, and the egg cup due to heat expansion is no longer relevant. ergo, the level will be the same in both hot and cold scenarios.

With regards to my own personal experience, the light has come on, on only one of the ten journeys I have made since my original post, if the oil level was dangerously low as has been suggested, it was low for all ten journeys, but only lit the lamp once. In the interest of covering all the bases, I checked the oil as per the manual, and marked a line after seven minutes, and then checked it again after two hours, and there was no difference whatsoever in the level. I then warmed the bike up and topped up to the top line. On four journeys since, the light has come on twice.



Back to my original question, before I was accused of being an idiot, has anybody else had trouble with their oil light?

A new switch is £86, so I'll look for a S/H one, unless I can fix the old one.

[fazersharp]

So from what others are saying, the egg cup left in the galleries after several minutes after running the bike up to temp, is offset by the egg cup of expansion of the oil. When cold the egg cup that was in the galleries is now in the sump, and the egg cup due to heat expansion is no longer relevant. ergo, the level will be the same in both hot and cold scenarios.

With regards to my own personal experience, the light has come on, on only one of the ten journeys I have made since my original post, if the oil level was dangerously low as has been suggested, it was low for all ten journeys, but only lit the lamp once. In the interest of covering all the bases, I checked the oil as per the manual, and marked a line after seven minutes, and then checked it again after two hours, and there was no difference whatsoever in the level. I then warmed the bike up and topped up to the top line. On four journeys since, the light has come on twice.



Back to my original question, before I was accused of being an idiot, has anybody else had trouble with their oil light?

A new switch is £86, so I'll look for a S/H one, unless I can fix the old one.

I don't think anyone has called you an Idiot. Do not but a new switch - you do not need one, I can confidently suggest that there is nothing wrong with your switch .
Yes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on. 
I had replaced the oil and filled it up as I have always done but this time it was a cheaper oil - same spec but I put the oil on light down to to oil being thinner and more readerly "sloshed" to the back and away from the switch on hard acceleration. 

[YamFazFan]

Why do people ask questions then 'take offence' at being told the answers?.


Are people supposed to have the talent of a mind reader to know what knowledge you already have or not. Talk about paranoid :rolleyes

[Pal]

Yes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on. 

As I said in my original post, this all happened at tickover at a junction. No 'spirted' riding, that came later. It was also more than a flick, it stayed on constantly for minutes until I stopped and turned everything off and back on.

Didn't come on today, I think it was scared of the snow.

[darrsi]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=24849.msg290714#msg290714 date=1547646296]Yes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on. 

As I said in my original post, this all happened at tickover at a junction. No 'spirted' riding, that came later. It was also more than a flick, it stayed on constantly for minutes until I stopped and turned everything off and back on.

Didn't come on today, I think it was scared of the snow.
[/quote]


Exactly what oil do you use, when was it last changed, and how often do you change it?

[His Dudeness]

you could check the wiring for a short to ground. if the wire going to the level sensor is rubbed through and touching the engine or frame the light would come on

[Pal]

Exactly what oil do you use, when was it last changed, and how often do you change it?

I use semi synthetic 10w/40 that meets API service SE, SF, SG type or higher, changed every 6000 miles.

Last change was at 58000 miles, which was just over 4000 miles ago

[Pal]

you could check the wiring for a short to ground. if the wire going to the level sensor is rubbed through and touching the engine or frame the light would come on

I had quick look at the wiring but will take a better look and take the switch out and test it, at the next oil change.
Light didn't come on today.

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=24849.msg290785#msg290785 date=1547733123]Exactly what oil do you use, when was it last changed, and how often do you change it?

I use semi synthetic 10w/40 that meets API service SE, SF, SG type or higher, changed every 6000 miles.

Last change was at 58000 miles, which was just over 4000 miles ago
[/quote]


'Should' be okay, it's been known before to get a build up of sludge with oil that's a bit past its time causing the light to either come on or flicker, but you're doing things right, it was just a thought that was all.
Always best to change oil when it's warm to help avoid this scenario though.

[Pal]

'Should' be okay, it's been known before to get a build up of sludge with oil that's a bit past its time causing the light to either come on or flicker, but you're doing things right, it was just a thought that was all.
Always best to change oil when it's warm to help avoid this scenario though.

I must admit to having a bit of a laugh with you, and copied the spec verbatim out of the handbook. I thought you were going to say about using bike specific or even fully syn in the Fazer. We all know oil debates can run to several pages on forums.
I used to use Comma car oil semi syn 10W40 in all my bikes. exceeds the spec given in the handbook.
I also used to do work on other peoples bikes, who (being unenlightened or loaded) wanted JASO MA2 oil, I don't have time to do extra work now, with family and work commitments, so having a couple of barrels left over from that, it's what I use in the Fazer. When it's gone, it'll be back to Comma.
My ZRX1100 is tuned to the bollox and has run all it's life on Comma car oil. Puts out over 160 BHP at the rear wheel.

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=24849.msg290877#msg290877 date=1547837946]
'Should' be okay, it's been known before to get a build up of sludge with oil that's a bit past its time causing the light to either come on or flicker, but you're doing things right, it was just a thought that was all.
Always best to change oil when it's warm to help avoid this scenario though.

I must admit to having a bit of a laugh with you, and copied the spec verbatim out of the handbook. I thought you were going to say about using bike specific or even fully syn in the Fazer. We all know oil debates can run to several pages on forums.
I used to use Comma car oil semi syn 10W40 in all my bikes. exceeds the spec given in the handbook.
I also used to do work on other peoples bikes, who (being unenlightened or loaded) wanted JASO MA2 oil, I don't have time to do extra work now, with family and work commitments, so having a couple of barrels left over from that, it's what I use in the Fazer. When it's gone, it'll be back to Comma.
My ZRX1100 is tuned to the bollox and has run all it's life on Comma car oil. Puts out over 160 BHP at the rear wheel.
[/quote]

Not entirely sure where this post is going to be honest?
If you're that clued up then i'd have thought you'd have at least known how to check your oil level properly?


And when questions are answered on here you have to remember there are loads of other people reading it now, or years ahead in the future, because they may have a similar problem as you're having, which is why the responses are better off being clear and detailed.


As for your heavily tuned up ZRX1100, do you not think it could possibly be a tad more tuned up if you did use motorbike oil in it? Just a thought!
I used car oil in one of my previous bikes and it simply didn't like it and made it difficult to change gear, but once i replaced it a few days later everything was back to normal, so for me it's a case of "once bitten" and all that, rather than going by what other people say.

[Pal]

If you're that clued up then i'd have thought you'd have at least known how to check your oil level properly?

It's the difference between knowing what is written in the handbook, and WHY it is written that way in the handbook.
My oil's fine, checked the way I did.
BTW light came on again today.
My switch is buggered.

[fazersharp]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=24849.msg290898#msg290898 date=1547899572]If you're that clued up then i'd have thought you'd have at least known how to check your oil level properly?

It's the difference between knowing what is written in the handbook, and WHY it is written that way in the handbook.
My oil's fine, checked the way I did.
BTW light came on again today.
My switch is buggered.
[/quote]Take the bulb out - problem solved.

[His Dudeness]

It might not be buggered it might just need to be cleaned. The float could be sticking or the wire going to the switch or a pin in a connector could be grounding.

On a side note there's some nice pictures of a R6 oil level gauge. The ring terminal is bolted to the engine so that is permanent ground. The float moves up and down on a shaft, when the float gets low enough it connects the ring terminal and the wire so the wire is grounded and your light comes on




There's the fazer one

[Pal]

It might not be buggered it might just need to be cleaned. The float could be sticking or the wire going to the switch or a pin in a connector could be grounding.

On a side note there's some nice pictures of a R6 oil level gauge. The ring terminal is bolted to the engine so that is permanent ground. The float moves up and down on a shaft, when the float gets low enough it connects the ring terminal and the wire so the wire is grounded and your light comes on

Thanks mate, exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for.
Will check out at next oil change, which will be in about three weeks, as long as the snow holds off..