Std exhaust silencer weight

[YamFazFan]

That's a great post. Explains it so clearly.


When I first measured I found 6mm difference, then on second measuring, having wheeled it about a bit, found 4mm difference. So I'd say the average is 5mm between being on centre stand/side stand.

[darrsi]

You realize we're talking about 4mm difference here.  :lol


I would personally guarantee that if every foccer was to show how they do their own chain measuring techniques the results would have a vast difference among every bike.
They'll either be too tight, too slack, misaligned, chain too dry, or not lubed correctly on every link, etc.


What i've noticed over the years is that if a chain is misaligned, too tight, or too slack then your hearing should suss it out first.
Too slack and the chain will slap about, too tight and it will just be noisy plus you'll feel it grinding through your left foot peg.
If the chain is misaligned then a knocking/rotational grinding will be felt and heard as well.


When adjusting the chain, once the wheel nut is properly tightened up a simple spin of the wheel (on the centre stand of course) can reveal all of these traits quite easily.
If all is well then the chain will purr when the wheel is spun forwards or backwards, to the point that you just know that it's right.


There is a large amount of common sense involved here, as well as what is advised in the manual.

[darrsi]

Think about it why does the chain need slack in the first place? It’s because you have to allow for changes in chain tension due to the up and down movement of the swing arm due to the suspension compressing and extending. The position of the front sprocket is fixed rigid to the engine and the engine is bolted into the frame so the position of the front sprocket can’t move up or down but the rear sprocket is part of the swing arm assembly so the position of the rear sprocket changes, it has to move up and down relative to the front sprocket when the swing arm moves up and down. If you look at picture 1


Imagine that picture 1 is when both wheels are on the ground the distance on side A is equal to the distance on B. In picture 2 say you hit a bump as you're riding and the suspension compresses and the swing arm pivots up around it’s pivot point so the rear sprocket pivots up relative to the front sprocket. This means the distance on side A will get shorter and side B will get longer so the tension on side A will be less and the tension on side B will be greater. That's why you need slack in the chain.

In picture 3 when you put the bike on the centre stand you’re doing the opposite, you’re taking the weight off the rear suspension so the suspension extends and the swing arm pivots down so side A would get longer and side B would get shorter creating more tension on side A and more slack on side B. That means if you adjust the chain to have 30mm slack on side B when the bike is on the centre stand, when you put it back down onto it’s wheels and the suspension compresses and the swing arm pivots up side B will tighten up and you’ll have less than 30mm slack. YamFazFan proved that’s what happens with his measurements. On the centre stand he measured 30mm slack. When he put the bike on both wheels he measured 26mm because the weight of the bike caused the suspension to compress and the swing arm to pivot up slightly. The slack side will tighten even more when you sit on the bike because you’re compressing the suspension more and that’s causing the swing arm to pivot up more. It'll tighten more if you have a pillion. And it'll tighten more when you hit a bump in the road.

Pictures 2 & 3 are the same, just the reverse of each other.
I think irrespective of how you check your chain slack, whether on centre or side stand, once you know what feels right you'll know what to do next time anyway.
I don't even measure any more, i started using the "Unfazed" way by pushing the chain up until it just hits the chain slide. It seems to be adequate enough.
And don't forget the manual suggests 30-45mm play on my bike so it's not that critical. It's the sound effects that play more an important role for me.

[His Dudeness]

[quote author=His Dudeness link=topic=24637.msg285708#msg285708 date=1540022220]
Think about it why does the chain need slack in the first place? It’s because you have to allow for changes in chain tension due to the up and down movement of the swing arm due to the suspension compressing and extending. The position of the front sprocket is fixed rigid to the engine and the engine is bolted into the frame so the position of the front sprocket can’t move up or down but the rear sprocket is part of the swing arm assembly so the position of the rear sprocket changes, it has to move up and down relative to the front sprocket when the swing arm moves up and down. If you look at picture 1


Imagine that picture 1 is when both wheels are on the ground the distance on side A is equal to the distance on B. In picture 2 say you hit a bump as you're riding and the suspension compresses and the swing arm pivots up around it’s pivot point so the rear sprocket pivots up relative to the front sprocket. This means the distance on side A will get shorter and side B will get longer so the tension on side A will be less and the tension on side B will be greater. That's why you need slack in the chain.

In picture 3 when you put the bike on the centre stand you’re doing the opposite, you’re taking the weight off the rear suspension so the suspension extends and the swing arm pivots down so side A would get longer and side B would get shorter creating more tension on side A and more slack on side B. That means if you adjust the chain to have 30mm slack on side B when the bike is on the centre stand, when you put it back down onto it’s wheels and the suspension compresses and the swing arm pivots up side B will tighten up and you’ll have less than 30mm slack. YamFazFan proved that’s what happens with his measurements. On the centre stand he measured 30mm slack. When he put the bike on both wheels he measured 26mm because the weight of the bike caused the suspension to compress and the swing arm to pivot up slightly. The slack side will tighten even more when you sit on the bike because you’re compressing the suspension more and that’s causing the swing arm to pivot up more. It'll tighten more if you have a pillion. And it'll tighten more when you hit a bump in the road.

Pictures 2 & 3 are the same, just the reverse of each other.
I think irrespective of how you check your chain slack, whether on centre or side stand, once you know what feels right you'll know what to do next time anyway.
I don't even measure any more, i started using the "Unfazed" way by pushing the chain up until it just hits the chain slide. It seems to be adequate enough.
And don't forget the manual suggests 30-45mm play on my bike so it's not that critical. It's the sound effects that play more an important role for me.
[/quote]
Of course it's a mirror image because the swing arm pivots around the same point whether it's pivoting up or down so the effect is the same just on opposite sides of the chain.

Say YamFazman found that it's a 5mm difference just from the weight of the bike. 5mm difference when the spec is 30mm-45mm that's 11% to 17% difference just from the weight of the bike. Sit a 100kg rider on the bike and the slack side will tighten more probably another few mm. Sit a 60kg pillion on and it'll tighten more, then add in hitting bumps and it tightens more. It would be made even worse if your chain was a bit old and had a tight spot in it. Does adjusting it on the centre stand make such a huge difference that it causes major problems? It seems not based on the fact that some people adjust it on the centre stand and get away with it but the point that I'm try to explain is that is it does make a difference. They give you the 30mm-45mm spec for when both wheels are on the ground so if you're using the 30mm-45mm as your guide you have to have both wheels on the ground to get the right amount of slack. Saying that adjusting it on the centre stand makes no difference isn't correct

[His Dudeness]

Like you said most people probably adjust it by eye, give it a wiggle up and down and call it good because they know from experience what to expect. That's totally different from taking a measurement. All I'm saying is if you're doing it by the measurement method having the bike on the centre stand or on the ground does make a difference.

[darrsi]

As you say we do what we do and all seems to be okay, i've just never adjusted my chain on the sidestand ever before because i want to spin the wheel to hear if it's right or not, so it makes no practical sense to me.
There must be a happy medium somewhere too 'cos i'm no lightweight, have taken pillion before, and also have a large top box which is normally half full of whatever and have never considered adjusting the chain to compensate for the extra weight one day, and the lack of it the next.

[BBROWN1664]

The yamaha service manual says to adjust the chain so there is 30-40mm of slack at the tightest point. Here is where it gets awkward though. It says to do it with both wheels on the ground. With both wheels on the ground, how are you meant to spin the wheel to find the tightest point?

[darrsi]

Another thing i noticed as well recently is how much freer the chain feels after switching from chain lube, which i've used for decades, to using engine oil instead.
It's very noticeable, especially how each individual link appears totally unrestricted in movement.

[His Dudeness]

As you say we do what we do and all seems to be okay, i've just never adjusted my chain on the sidestand ever before because i want to spin the wheel to hear if it's right or not, so it makes no practical sense to me.
There must be a happy medium somewhere too 'cos i'm no lightweight, have taken pillion before, and also have a large top box which is normally half full of whatever and have never considered adjusting the chain to compensate for the extra weight one day, and the lack of it the next.

I guess they take into account all the variables that can happen when they come up with the 30-45mm limits so as long as you're in that range you're good. If you can get into that 30-45mm range by eye by adjusting it with the bike on the centre stand you're sorted, don't change a thing. If you were putting it up on the centre stand and then adjusting it with a ruler to 30-45mm when you put it back down on two wheels it might be over tightened a bit. But we're probably splitting hairs anyway I just like to look at things from an engineering/maths points of view

The yamaha service manual says to adjust the chain so there is 30-40mm of slack at the tightest point. Here is where it gets awkward though. It says to do it with both wheels on the ground. With both wheels on the ground, how are you meant to spin the wheel to find the tightest point?

Doing it on the side stand certainly does make the whole process more awkward. I just roll the bike back a few times and then flex the chain each time to see if there is a tighter area, then adjust it from there. It adds a bit of time to the process but with regular oiling how often do you even need to adjust the chain so the bit of extra effort of doing it on the side stand isn't a big deal. 

[darrsi]

You're right there, i only really have to consider adjusting the chain when the rear wheel needs removing, otherwise it simply doesn't get touched other than cleaning or lubing.
Again another thing i've noticed about using engine oil on it is that i don't particularly even find it necessary to clean the chain so often in comparison to when i used to use the chain lube. It doesn't get anywhere near as dirty or gritty as before, which can only be a bonus.

[His Dudeness]

Another thing i noticed as well recently is how much freer the chain feels after switching from chain lube, which i've used for decades, to using engine oil instead.
It's very noticeable, especially how each individual link appears totally unrestricted in movement.

Yeah I've noticed that too. I think the oil gradually washes off whereas the sticky spray lube gets full of dirt and grit. I switched to gear oil years ago because the cans of spray lube are a rip off for the amount of applications you get out of them. For the same price you can get a 1lt bottle of gear oil that will last a life time if all you're doing with it is lubing chains. You do have to apply it more regularly than the spray lube though. And only apply a small amount to avoid fling. I brush it on with a tooth brush.

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=24637.msg285720#msg285720 date=1540035117]
Another thing i noticed as well recently is how much freer the chain feels after switching from chain lube, which i've used for decades, to using engine oil instead.
It's very noticeable, especially how each individual link appears totally unrestricted in movement.

Yeah I've noticed that too. I think the oil gradually washes off whereas the sticky spray lube gets full of dirt and grit. I switched to gear oil years ago because the cans of spray lube are a rip off for the amount of applications you get out of them. For the same price you can get a 1lt bottle of gear oil that will last a life time if all you're doing with it is lubing chains. You do have to apply it more regularly than the spray lube though. And only apply a small amount to avoid fling. I brush it on with a tooth brush.
[/quote]


Maybe i should try gear oil, as it's a bit heavier than engine oil.
I've just been using a paintbrush when the chain is warm and you can really see that every part of the links get properly oiled.
Had to put newspaper down in the garage for excess drips but that's hardly a big deal.

[His Dudeness]

It does seem to hold on a bit better alright but you do still get a few drips. Not many though as long as you just give it a light coat.

[deeteefifty]

I support the bike by the frame, uncouple the linkage/shock, lift the rear wheel till the chain slack is at its least amount (you'll feel it go over centre when it loosens again). Support the wheel with chain at its tightest point, then adjust the chain in this position so slack is at a minimum, turn the wheel to a few different points and check slack in case of any sprocket high spots. Re assemble then put the bike on it's centre stand or paddock stand in my case as somebody chopped it off, pick a reference point  on top or bottom of swinging arm immediately behind chain wear pad. Pull the chain away from the swinging arm, this is my correct chain slack. I then cut a wooden block to this thickness to use as a quick check gauge until chain/sprocket renewal. Make the block small enough to keep in your pocket or stash under the seat.
This has worked fine for all my bikes except the Moto Guzzi.

[daviee]

PUT It on a paddock stand that goes onto the swing arm does the same thing as having both wheels on the ground , or what i do is put it on the centre stand and use a ratchet strap from the swing arm to the frame and tighten it till the chain gets to its tightest point then adjust from there

[tommyardin]

This what the manual says (See Pics) pic 2 is the continuation of first pic but on the next page. I agree with some of the remarks in here, Centre Stand tightest spot on the lower chain run, push the chain up without excessive force, and, if the chain just touches the rear of the chain guide on the bottom of the swinging arm you are about right.

[bandit]

Also these chain tightening instructions cover YZF & FZS, the YZF only had a side stand.  

[darrsi]

I support the bike by the frame, uncouple the linkage/shock, lift the rear wheel till the chain slack is at its least amount (you'll feel it go over centre when it loosens again). Support the wheel with chain at its tightest point, then adjust the chain in this position so slack is at a minimum, turn the wheel to a few different points and check slack in case of any sprocket high spots. Re assemble then put the bike on it's centre stand or paddock stand in my case as somebody chopped it off, pick a reference point  on top or bottom of swinging arm immediately behind chain wear pad. Pull the chain away from the swinging arm, this is my correct chain slack. I then cut a wooden block to this thickness to use as a quick check gauge until chain/sprocket renewal. Make the block small enough to keep in your pocket or stash under the seat.
This has worked fine for all my bikes except the Moto Guzzi.

I just look at mine  :lol

[tommyardin]

[quote author=deeteefifty link=topic=24637.msg285733#msg285733 date=1540050601]
I support the bike by the frame, uncouple the linkage/shock, lift the rear wheel till the chain slack is at its least amount (you'll feel it go over centre when it loosens again). Support the wheel with chain at its tightest point, then adjust the chain in this position so slack is at a minimum, turn the wheel to a few different points and check slack in case of any sprocket high spots. Re assemble then put the bike on it's centre stand or paddock stand in my case as somebody chopped it off, pick a reference point  on top or bottom of swinging arm immediately behind chain wear pad. Pull the chain away from the swinging arm, this is my correct chain slack. I then cut a wooden block to this thickness to use as a quick check gauge until chain/sprocket renewal. Make the block small enough to keep in your pocket or stash under the seat.
This has worked fine for all my bikes except the Moto Guzzi.

I just look at mine  :lol
[/quote]




WTF  :eek

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=24637.msg285741#msg285741 date=1540069859]
[quote author=deeteefifty link=topic=24637.msg285733#msg285733 date=1540050601]
I support the bike by the frame, uncouple the linkage/shock, lift the rear wheel till the chain slack is at its least amount (you'll feel it go over centre when it loosens again). Support the wheel with chain at its tightest point, then adjust the chain in this position so slack is at a minimum, turn the wheel to a few different points and check slack in case of any sprocket high spots. Re assemble then put the bike on it's centre stand or paddock stand in my case as somebody chopped it off, pick a reference point  on top or bottom of swinging arm immediately behind chain wear pad. Pull the chain away from the swinging arm, this is my correct chain slack. I then cut a wooden block to this thickness to use as a quick check gauge until chain/sprocket renewal. Make the block small enough to keep in your pocket or stash under the seat.
This has worked fine for all my bikes except the Moto Guzzi.

I just look at mine  :lol
[/quote]




WTF  :eek
[/quote]


Either right or wrong  :lol


31 years of bike riding tends to give you a 'hunch'  :lol