Downshift Blipping

[ptolemyx]

Let's all get automatic bikes instead shall we 

[celticdog]

Slipper Clutch? 

[nick crisp]

Let's all get automatic bikes instead shall we 

Perhaps someone can invent a riderless bike. Then you can just send it out for a ride by itself and not have to bother with all that stuff yourself.
Personally, I like having to judge gears and revs for myself, braking distances and force for myself, how much power to feed in if I don't want the front end off the deck or the rear spinning up on me (and how much if I do want that). I even like the possibility that I could foc it all up.


On the track, if these things help you to beat your competitors, I understand it. But on the road, ol' stick-in-the-mud here likes the traditional methods of riding a bike.


And here we go again  :lurk :lol

[Skippernick]

[quote author=Skippernick link=topic=23205.msg267415#msg267415 date=1504558193]
I don't understand why there is a need for downshift blipping either "manually" on our bikes or automatically on varies modern bikes.
Doesn't the engine automatically raise the revs when you downshift anyway to match the bikes speed?
Can someone explain it to me please.

There is no such thing as  engine automatically raising the revs when you downshift which will match the bike speed.

What happens is because of the speed of your bike the back wheel forces engine to spin with higher speed which is raising the revs.

The problem here is you have a lot of braking power coming from the engine to your back wheel. This force unbalances the bike and makes suspension wobbly. Also the braking force may lock your back wheel and you may crash.

Hence clever guys invented the slipper clutch - because clutch sits in the middle between the engine and your back wheel if the clutch slips a little the force is lost and the back wheel is not forced so violently to brake. Means you will not crash and there is no need to blip.

I never blip, but I usually slip my clutch manually. Which has the same effect. By blipping you are basically making the revs of the engine to match the rotation speed of your back wheel - hence no braking force. I prefer to have the braking force coming. Not to mention the sound of the engine forced by the back wheel speed to go higher is very nice. In fact that is the most fun for me when riding. Incoming.

Which is a lot of exhaust screaming noise for bike which basically is stopping, but we must satisfy the expectations of the public that the bikers are crazy people  :lol

Summary - in order to avoid the violent braking forces on your back wheel you can:

1. Blip and equalise the engine and back wheel.
2. Use your clutch to slip a little - means you are still having braking force on the back wheel but its controlled.
3. Buy a bike with slipper clutch - there you have automatic slipping.

HTH
[/quote]


Thanks Val, you explained it so i understand.


I have started doing it recently but obviously didn't understand why the need for it. Although i think i need more practice coz sometimes i fook it up and surge forward when no expecting it.  :lol

[robbo]

I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic. The first truck I drove was a 50's Morris Commercial which had no synchro so had to be double declutched and all downward shifts required a blip of throttle to avoid missed gears.Obviously only had "struggle steering" back then as well.

[fazersharp]

I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.

I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

[robbo]

[quote author=robbo link=topic=23205.msg267584#msg267584 date=1504732508]
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.

I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

[/quote]Well speaking for myself I thought this was an odd thread as blipping the throttle just comes naturally for me and is done without thinking. However in recent years I do come across younger riders that just smash their way down through the box and this would be on something without a slipper clutch. Quite possibly modern engineering negates what I'd call mechanical sympathy, but that's all I know.If someone's asking why or how down shifts are assisted with a blip of throttle I'd have to assume they were quite young or new to biking.

[steve 10562cc]

Could not blipping the throttle be the reason so many FZR600 and Thundercat gearboxes had problems with second gear at about 25/30k miles.

[darrsi]

I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic. The first truck I drove was a 50's Morris Commercial which had no synchro so had to be double declutched and all downward shifts required a blip of throttle to avoid missed gears.Obviously only had "struggle steering" back then as well.

After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?

[fazersharp]

[quote author=robbo link=topic=23205.msg267584#msg267584 date=1504732508]
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic. The first truck I drove was a 50's Morris Commercial which had no synchro so had to be double declutched and all downward shifts required a blip of throttle to avoid missed gears.Obviously only had "struggle steering" back then as well.

After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?
[/quote]
During a pootle or commute to work i very much doubt that it would ever be needed either  :pokefun

[nick crisp]

After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?

Who said anything about revving the nuts off it? Some people here have a very strange idea of this 'blipping' thing.

[fazersharp]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=23205.msg267613#msg267613 date=1504763929]



After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?

Who said anything about revving the nuts off it? Some people here have a very strange idea of this 'blipping' thing.
[/quote]
Yes its just a "blip" surly the name describes it perfectly

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=23205.msg267613#msg267613 date=1504763929]



After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?

Who said anything about revving the nuts off it? Some people here have a very strange idea of this 'blipping' thing.
[/quote]


Okay, wrong choice of words, but i know what i meant and i still don't do it.

[darrsi]

So, i just got called into work and as the traffic was a bit lighter i gave the bike a bit of welly, and it turns out that i do actually blip the throttle at higher speeds.
I think i've been riding so long now that i don't really think about what i'm doing anymore, i just ride it.  :lol

[Val]

Thanks Val, you explained it so i understand.


I have started doing it recently but obviously didn't understand why the need for it. Although i think i need more practice coz sometimes i fook it up and surge forward when no expecting it.  :lol

You welcome 

BTW it happens all the time to everybody. If you do more throttle than needed you surge forward if you do less you feel too much braking.

Some guys (not me) master matching the speed and the revs to the extend that they do almost clutchless downshifts.

[Bretty]

Just let the clutch out a little slower. As long as you're still using the brakes it'll  be fine.

[Flooky]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=23205.msg267585#msg267585 date=1504732744]
[quote author=robbo link=topic=23205.msg267584#msg267584 date=1504732508]
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.

I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

[/quote]Well speaking for myself I thought this was an odd thread as blipping the throttle just comes naturally for me and is done without thinking. However in recent years I do come across younger riders that just smash their way down through the box and this would be on something without a slipper clutch. Quite possibly modern engineering negates what I'd call mechanical sympathy, but that's all I know.If someone's asking why or how down shifts are assisted with a blip of throttle I'd have to assume they were quite young or new to biking.
[/quote]
I have to agree with Robbo, I don't know how you could make progress ( go fast ) without blipping, if you just change down the bike slows and then you at the wrong part of the rev range to exit the corner briskly. I sort of don't really understand this post if I am honest. its like asking how to ride a bike really. don't wanna be rude .

[moffmeister]

sounds bloody nice as well

:thumbup

[Skippernick]

[quote author=robbo link=topic=23205.msg267595#msg267595 date=1504734717]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=23205.msg267585#msg267585 date=1504732744]
[quote author=robbo link=topic=23205.msg267584#msg267584 date=1504732508]
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.

I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

[/quote]Well speaking for myself I thought this was an odd thread as blipping the throttle just comes naturally for me and is done without thinking. However in recent years I do come across younger riders that just smash their way down through the box and this would be on something without a slipper clutch. Quite possibly modern engineering negates what I'd call mechanical sympathy, but that's all I know.If someone's asking why or how down shifts are assisted with a blip of throttle I'd have to assume they were quite young or new to biking.
[/quote]
I have to agree with Robbo, I don't know how you could make progress ( go fast ) without blipping, if you just change down the bike slows and then you at the wrong part of the rev range to exit the corner briskly. I sort of don't really understand this post if I am honest. its like asking how to ride a bike really. don't wanna be rude .
[/quote]


Show me where blipping is taught in the motorcycle test!
I am not a fast rider and use the mantra slow in fast out but it has never bothered me not blipping, however every day is a school day.
If you bothered to read my original post i asked the question why do it, if the engine matches the revs to wheel speed when changing down, wind on the throttle and you negate the engine braking. However as Val explained that is not what happens. Sorry my lack of technical expertise lead me to ask a question on a forum designed to help everyone!

[fazersharp]

If you bothered to read my original post i asked the question why do it, if the engine matches the revs to wheel speed when changing down, wind on the throttle and you negate the engine braking.

Yes that's why I do it -- to negate the engine braking - or the amount of braking because I am in control of it by how much I blip I then use the front brake instead of letting the engine braking brake the back wheel as IT wants. But all that depends on my speed before the action and my planned speed after it and the degree of the corner or the speed at which I need to slow down and also the road conditions at the time that all lead me to the blip action-front brake - a little bit of engine braking (controlled by the blip ) and no back brake at least mostly until the end- all done without thinking.  :thumbup
I have no idea why they don't teach it
Do they teach counter steering. _Genuine question, I don't know  because that is another skill in the same sort of bracket I would say. 
Another one - do they teach clutch less up shifting.