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+--- Thread: Downshift Blipping (/showthread.php?tid=78740)
Downshift Blipping - Skippernick - 04-09-17
I don't understand why there is a need for downshift blipping either "manually" on our bikes or automatically on varies modern bikes.
Doesn't the engine automatically raise the revs when you downshift anyway to match the bikes speed?
Can someone explain it to me please.
Re: Downshift Blipping - Bretty - 04-09-17
It makes gear changes smoother.
when you change down, the engine has to spin faster to match the wheel rotation. It's the same principle as heel-toe braking in a car as you go into a bend. Brake with your toes and blip the throttle with your heel as you change down to reduce the effects of engine braking and keep everything smooth.
You can just stamp down through the gears on a bike, but will often find yourself locking the back wheel if you drop into first, you will also stress/bend the selector forks and generally wear the box.
I back the power off on the way up and blip on the way down. Try it. The Yamaha box is notoriously agricultural, you'll be surprised how smooth and effortless the gear pedal becomes if you do this.
Re: Downshift Blipping - nick crisp - 04-09-17
What he ^^ said. I think. It's something I've done for as long as I can remember. I don't know how I came to do it. I was never taught it. Sounds good though
Re: Downshift Blipping - fazersharp - 04-09-17
I too am a blipper and do it automaticity mainly when I am braking hard for a turn - that sort of thing, two fingers on the brake leaver just about at the same time but if I am just pootling along than I use the engine braking. Otherwise it make for far more smoother and controlled braking. When I am using the blip it is also an extra useful heads noise up to idiots of my (sudden surprise presence )
Re: Downshift Blipping - vinnyb - 04-09-17
Me too, always have.
Re: Downshift Blipping - fazersharp - 04-09-17
Have a go - it may take a little practice but once you get it right it is both satisfying and practical - just like going the other way up the box and clutchles up shifting
Re: Downshift Blipping - steve 10562cc - 05-09-17
There's nothing more satisfying than down changing 3 gears blipping the throttle for a bend you know well and have took hundreds of times at the same speed then totally f*****g it up and finishing in a water filled ditch. Guilty my lord, oh the shame :o
Re: Downshift Blipping - ptolemyx - 05-09-17
Blipping was originally done as an attempt to match the engine revs with the higher gearbox revs of the lower gear before letting the clutch out. This would put less stress on the old drive chain (not the final drive chain, but the primary drive and gearbox) which was a weakness back in the day. Little need nowadays with better engineered components and closer ratio gearboxes (we rode bikes with no more than 4 gears back in the no helmet law days).
Then.....and now......
Re: Downshift Blipping - Bretty - 05-09-17
I'm sure on the 600, the alternate loading on the sprocket :rollin contributes to the nut coming undone and the sprocket falling off! :eek
The gear box is still all cogs and dogs and the closer you match the speed of these two shafts the smoother it will change.
Cruise along the motorway, and toggle through gears 3-5. put a really light pressure on the gear lever and without using the clutch just change the throttle position and you'll find at certain points the bike will effortlessly just change gear on it's own. Give it a little more throttle to go down through the gears and a little less when changing up... I found this out when my left hand was preoccupied using my satnav, or trying to block the sun off the screen so I could see it. :rolleyes :'(
Re: Downshift Blipping - Fazafou - 05-09-17
It's not just about being able to get the gear located like with the old boxes, it's to do with keeping the bike balanced.
Just downshifting and letting the clutch out puts the stress through your clutch and drive train, potentially locks the rear and if approaching a corner will unbalance the bike.
It's a good technique to practice so that the bike is kept stable. I only don't blip if I'm actively decelerating and so use the braking force of the low revs to help.
It's the same reason race drivers in cars use heel and toe, so that the car is kept balanced through a corner.
Re: Downshift Blipping - tommyardin - 05-09-17
(05-09-17, 08:27 AM)ptolemyx link Wrote: Blipping was originally done as an attempt to match the engine revs with the higher gearbox revs of the lower gear before letting the clutch out. This would put less stress on the old drive chain (not the final drive chain, but the primary drive and gearbox) which was a weakness back in the day. Little need nowadays with better engineered components and closer ratio gearboxes (we rode bikes with no more than 4 gears back in the no helmet law days).
Then.....and now......
All so true, my old Billy Bantam (BSA 175cc single pot stroker) that I passed my bike test on in 1966 only had 3 cogs and about the same power as a Kenwood Chief mixer.
The funny/scary thing about the Bantam was that if the ignition timing was out and close to TDC (Top Dead Centre) if the bike rolled back after stalling on a hill it would bump start in reverse giving 3 reverse gears, I never managed to cover anymore than about 3 foot in reverse before ending up in a heap, like the day on Guildford High Street giving much hilarity to the shoppers and passers by.
But that was in the days when you could drive up and down the High Street and Main Street in Guildford.
Oh! by the way I love the look of the Vinny.
I generally was a BSA man and loved the BSA Super Rocket and Road Rockets with their A10 650 parallel twin pot engines and remote gear boxes with a primary chain.
The pictures below are grab shots from Google Images and not my bike.
I did not take many photos then as you had to carry a foccing great big Kodak Box Brownie camera around in your pocket use up 12 or 15 frames then send them away to some obscure company up in the midlands, then wait 2 or 3 weeks to get back 5 reasonable pictures back, one my have your thumb in one bottom corner, two out of focus with a bright orange flash down one side (What the fuck did cause that?) and a lovely picture of up your own nose.
Re: Downshift Blipping - 5LV - 05-09-17
it's called mechanical sympathy.
you have a crank spinning at 8k rpm, transmitting power to a shaft probably rotating at 8k too (depending onyour primary gearing), then to another shaft which dependant on gearing could be spinning up to 14k rpm. this then goes through your front sprocket and drive chain.
if you enjoy replacing chain and sprockets and quite possibly the odd gearbox then stamp down the box..........or become a smoother rider
Re: Downshift Blipping - Kenbob - 05-09-17
Going up through the gearbox is another story, no clutch needed just a flick of the wrist.
Re: Downshift Blipping - Grahamm - 05-09-17
I've never found the "aggressive" style of blipping necessary.
Sure, it may sound good if you're "look at me!" sort of biker, but you don't have to bounce it off the limiter to get a smooth downshift, just a gentle lift of the revs as you disengage the clutch is enough.
Re: Downshift Blipping - fazersharp - 05-09-17
(05-09-17, 12:50 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: I've never found the "aggressive" style of blipping necessary.So you do more of a blurp than a blip
Sure, it may sound good if you're "look at me!" sort of biker, but you don't have to bounce it off the limiter to get a smooth downshift, just a gentle lift of the revs as you disengage the clutch is enough.
Re: Downshift Blipping - Fazafou - 05-09-17
(05-09-17, 12:50 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: I've never found the "aggressive" style of blipping necessary.
Sure, it may sound good if you're "look at me!" sort of biker, but you don't have to bounce it off the limiter to get a smooth downshift, just a gentle lift of the revs as you disengage the clutch is enough.
Yeah agree, the difference between gears is usually only 1.5-2k revs, so 'blipping' more than this is stressing the drivetrain the other way (needing to pull the revs down instead of up.
Re: Downshift Blipping - agricola - 05-09-17
(05-09-17, 12:50 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: I've never found the "aggressive" style of blipping necessary.
Sure, it may sound good if you're "look at me!" sort of biker, but you don't have to bounce it off the limiter to get a smooth downshift, just a gentle lift of the revs as you disengage the clutch is enough.
Im with Grahammm. Just match the revs to forward speed as the clutch is released. Never locked the wheel up on the FZ6
Re: Downshift Blipping - tommyardin - 05-09-17
Blipping allows for fast and rapid cog swopping, like dropping 2 or 3 rapidly when hooning into a tight corner, sounds bloody nice as well it you apply the power early in the lower gears and drive the bike round and out of the bend :eek
Just heard a bike out on the A3 about half a mile from me do that very thing into Ham Barn Roundabout, wind must be in the right direction tonight as it sounded both loud and delicious :lol
I'm sat up in my bed on the iPad, window open, Mrs menopausal, her thermostat is shot to bits, hence foccing window wide open :'(
Re: Downshift Blipping - Val - 06-09-17
(04-09-17, 09:49 PM)Skippernick link Wrote: I don't understand why there is a need for downshift blipping either "manually" on our bikes or automatically on varies modern bikes.
Doesn't the engine automatically raise the revs when you downshift anyway to match the bikes speed?
Can someone explain it to me please.
There is no such thing as engine automatically raising the revs when you downshift which will match the bike speed.
What happens is because of the speed of your bike the back wheel forces engine to spin with higher speed which is raising the revs.
The problem here is you have a lot of braking power coming from the engine to your back wheel. This force unbalances the bike and makes suspension wobbly. Also the braking force may lock your back wheel and you may crash.
Hence clever guys invented the slipper clutch - because clutch sits in the middle between the engine and your back wheel if the clutch slips a little the force is lost and the back wheel is not forced so violently to brake. Means you will not crash and there is no need to blip.
I never blip, but I usually slip my clutch manually. Which has the same effect. By blipping you are basically making the revs of the engine to match the rotation speed of your back wheel - hence no braking force. I prefer to have the braking force coming. Not to mention the sound of the engine forced by the back wheel speed to go higher is very nice. In fact that is the most fun for me when riding. Incoming.
Which is a lot of exhaust screaming noise for bike which basically is stopping, but we must satisfy the expectations of the public that the bikers are crazy people :lol
Summary - in order to avoid the violent braking forces on your back wheel you can:
1. Blip and equalise the engine and back wheel.
2. Use your clutch to slip a little - means you are still having braking force on the back wheel but its controlled.
3. Buy a bike with slipper clutch - there you have automatic slipping.
HTH
Re: Downshift Blipping - fazersharp - 06-09-17
So bothe methods work but which is better for the well being of the engine/clutch.
I don't like the sound of overly slipping a clutch, just going to wear it out quicker arnt you