(06-01-17, 09:35 PM)mtread link Wrote: Yes it was a serious post. Obviously I was the only one who watched the documentary. He was being used as a gun courier. Serious criminals use them all the time because they know they are under observation. Often they use kids. They're not major criminals, and more than likely don't even know how to use it. Watch the documentary and then you'll know the facts.
If you believe that any documentary will report the facts exactly as they are, then more fool you.
(06-01-17, 10:14 PM)pilninggas link Wrote: [quote author=mtread link=topic=21619.msg249189#msg249189 date=1483734921]
Yes it was a serious post. Obviously I was the only one who watched the documentary. He was being used as a gun courier. Serious criminals use them all the time because they know they are under observation. Often they use kids. They're not major criminals, and more than likely don't even know how to use it. Watch the documentary and then you'll know the facts.
If you believe that any documentary will report the facts exactly as they are, then more fool you.
[/quote]
Documentaries can be edited to suit the agenda of the editor / producer / production company
Courier or not he was carrying a gun knew,criminals with guns and knew what guns do/can do and was no choir boy I wonder if opinions would be the same if the gun that was " thrown over the fence " was picked up by a kid and used to shoot another innocent child. He didn't give shit when he did that like he didn't give a shit what the gun carried might do.
Simple don't associate with guns / gun runners / gun users don't get shot
Or it's a good excuse for some scumbags to go on a rampage for some new TVs and set bonfires and smash honest hard working people's property
Yeh Yeh Yeh, all documentaries are fixed. So did you actually watch it? The documentary reported facts based on police evidence, video evidence, witness evidence, inquest evidence, the decisions of the inquest jury. I'd rather take my position based on those facts rather than subjective uninformed opinion.
As to whether he 'deserved it' well if you think also a kid transporting a package where he might even not know what's in it deserves to be shot and killed, because the police know it's a gun 'just in case they use it', then I would suggest some people need to examine their morals.
Also, I'm glad I'm not a motorcycle courier.
If he didn't know what it was why throw it over a fence ?
No I didn't watch it I will admit it didn't interest me but I've had a gun pointed at me ( could have been a replica but it looked real ) because someone wanted a free bus ride which was a pound then maybe it was a gun that he couriered that was in my face , all for a £1 bus ride !!!
I worked many years ago at kings college hospital A&E and I've seen more people shot than most, I've then picked the dead ones up from the resus trolley and put them on a trolley and then into a fridge in the mortuary so maybe my view of people that carry guns , traffic guns and gun crime is a bit more personal than most.
Don't you just love a calm and reasoned adult debate about issues that effects each and everyone of us in society.
Well it may not actually effect us (as yet) but as someone earlier said if the police get knocked off the top of the pile as the biggest gang on the block it might just effect us soon enough. Hey I get the feeling we might be turning into a mini USA, if he/they carry a gun then so should I to protect myself. We seem to follow the USA in every other way, 40 years ago we were a nation of 10 or 11 stone guys, now most people are fat bastards, like our buddy's across the pond.
I bet that rattles a cage or two. :lol
I'm not saying he didn't know what it was in the Duggan case. I'm saying that the police didn't know that, and the documentary showed that he did not pose a threat when he was shot. It was a mistake by a police officer, and then they conspired to cover it up.
On the subject of turning into America, perhaps we should aim to be more like Japan http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38365729
(07-01-17, 12:06 AM)tommyardin link Wrote: Don't you just love a calm and reasoned adult debate about issues that effects each and everyone of us in society.
Well it may not actually effect us (as yet) but as someone earlier said if the police get knocked off the top of the pile as the biggest gang on the block it might just effect us soon enough. Hey I get the feeling we might be turning into a mini USA, if he/they carry a gun then so should I to protect myself. We seem to follow the USA in every other way, 40 years ago we were a nation of 10 or 11 stone guys, now most people are fat bastards, like our buddy's across the pond.
I bet that rattles a cage or two. :lol Noooooo tommy anything but emulating our American cousins .... well all have to ride Harley's believing they're good anything but that :'(
Where did I put that gun so I can end it all :2guns
(05-01-17, 11:38 AM)Bretty link Wrote: Shoot first ask questions later...
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_586df7...29cab30968
Yeah but she asked for it, selling her wares around Buck House, (I've seen the Tea Towels) growing all sorts of 'plants' in the multiple green house in her back garden, she gets driven around in really expensive motors and has a gang of heavies around her at all time that are carrying pieces of hardware. Thinks she is untouchable.
I saw the video clip that was edited off the end of her Christmas speech when she finished off saying 'I'm a bad assed mother f----r so dont mess with me and my family' well there you have it unrefutable evidence, I rest my case. She will get her comupence.
I think she is great really xx it is people like the Queen that make Gt Britain GREAT. BIG hug for the Queen. Yeahhhhh!
Sorry about the last post, I had not had my morning meds, I am much better now :lol
All back on our meds. The weekend is here. Off our soapboxes and back on our bikes ?
(07-01-17, 12:54 PM)mtread link Wrote: All back on our meds. The weekend is here. Off our soapboxes and back on our bikes ?
Amen to that Mark
Medication taken
Soapbox put away
Bike out
(06-01-17, 12:03 PM)BBROWN1664 link Wrote: Many years ago (before Dun Blane) I held a firearms licence and had a couple of pistols. One of these was a S&W .357 Magnum.
Around the same time I worked at Gatwick airport and had to attend an anti-terror training session at the police station. This was when airports were one of the few places you would openly see armed police. During the session they talked about the weapons they used and the ammunition. Their advise at the time was if a situation occurred in the terminal buildings, get behind the plant pots as their ammunition was "soft" and low charge for the sole intention that it would not pass through the targeted terrorist and would splinter up causing massive internal injuries preventing the terrorist from doing anything other than dropping down dead.
I must admit, I did take the piss a little as my .357 was a genuine S&W model whereas the plod version was a cheap copy into which they were not allowed to use the magnum cartridges as they were deemed too powerful :rollin
the MP5 they used at the time, and derivatives are still used now, have a significant range/accuracy advantage over a pistol with a 6" barrel so are the favoured weapon and the one used at all times unless they run out of ammunition on the MP5. Unfortunately, even the low powered ammo they use can still pass straight through a body at close range and unless it hits a bone, exits out the read of the body in one piece. It's a risk worth taking unless you are in a densely populated situation.
In my country (and most of Europe for all I know), 9 mm parabellum is the standard police pistol cartridge. Decent penetration, but not too much noise, flashing, and low risk of over-penetration (and hitting people behind obstacles). USA have a different policy as far as I know, using cartridges with better penetration, being able to go through a car door, arm, then through the chest to the heart.
Pistol ammo will hardly split up and cause massive internal injury - it's a moot marketing point IMO. High power cartridges from long barrels - yes, but not pistol ammunition. Unless you pierce the heart, or the brain/upper spine, "dropping dead" time depends on the target's mentality. However, I understand that airport police would use the ammo with minimal over-penetration ability, not for the purpose of criminals "dropping dead" more quickly, but to minimize risk of the police shooting injuring other people.
Personally, I'd love to see a law giving life sentence to anyone caught with a firearm, even if not doing any crime. Preventing firearm use to everyone, including the police (so criminals don't fear being shot at, and for that fear doing something even more stupid). Army and special task force to deal with terrorism and a few armed criminals. Maybe I'm too naive, but I think it would work.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
The vast majority of police officers and police forces would rather not have to carry arms. Society in the UK is making that choice more and more difficult every waking day. There is gun crime practically every night in and around the major cities and towns the length and breadth of the land.
Get caught carrying a gun 10 years jail minimum. Point and use a gun at the police, you have crossed the line and that should be 20 years minimum. Shot and kill a police officer life with no chance of parole.
MT-09 Tracer for those who no longer can handle a BIG boy Fazer
(09-01-17, 01:35 AM)lew600fazer link Wrote: The vast majority of police officers and police forces would rather not have to carry arms. Society in the UK is making that choice more and more difficult every waking day. There is gun crime practically every night in and around the major cities and towns the length and breadth of the land.
Get caught carrying a gun 10 years jail minimum. Point and use a gun at the police, you have crossed the line and that should be 20 years minimum. Shot and kill a police officer life with no chance of parole.
Probably find that the common denomination with most of these street people with guns is drugs.
That's where society is going down the pan, it's a booming business, but where there's a big demand then these people will be around to supply it, and protect themselves and their business in the process.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
Darrsi, I agree entirely with what you say, so how about the Government remove the middle man and legalise drugs. The money raised by the sale of drugs could used to prop up the failing NHS.
MT-09 Tracer for those who no longer can handle a BIG boy Fazer
09-01-17, 12:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-17, 02:31 PM by darrsi.)
(09-01-17, 11:22 AM)lew600fazer link Wrote: Darrsi, I agree entirely with what you say, so how about the Government remove the middle man and legalise drugs. The money raised by the sale of drugs could used to prop up the failing NHS.
Haha, another can of worms entirely.
I've had this discussion with friends before and i've found that people tend not to look at the bigger picture.
For starters legalising drugs will play even more into dealers hands that will undercut any government run shops selling weed, for example.
Then you get people who have the impression that it will just be some mad free for all, when in reality you will get employers doing random drug testing due to a zero tolerance at work. Same as the police will step up again being even more alert for drug drivers which will result in long term bans.
If anything, the only real people who would benefit would be the ones that aren't working.
All theory of course, and some people, as always, will think i'm talking shite, but that's the way i see things.
There is no real straightforward answer, because as i said earlier the demand is so great that the police will never ever control it as things stand right now.
Also, which drugs should become legal?
I've got a few mates who rarely know what time of day or night it is, don't know the meaning of punctuality and are useless at work, and they just smoke the weed.
I know other people on the harder stuff that turn into absolute monsters when they're on a mission.
There is no easy answer unfortunately.
As for the NHS, they're going downhill fast due to the influx of people coming into the country and using the system without putting anything into it in the first place.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(09-01-17, 12:02 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Haha, another can of worms entirely.
I've had this discussion with friends before and i've found that people tend not to look at the bigger picture.
For starters legalising drugs will play even more into dealers hands that will undercut any government run shops selling weed, for example.
Dealers would be first to petition for banning the drugs again. They're not into selling weed at the price of growing and harvesting. If the drugs weren't illegal, they'd be cheaply produced and mafia has no interest in honest work with small profit.
This way: false moral of "fighting drugs" image is "sold".
Mafia makes money.
Agencies have income that isn't taxed, nor controlled.
There's more crime, people are more easily scared.
And drugs are widely available across Europe.
(09-01-17, 12:02 PM)darrsi link Wrote:
Then you get people who have the impression that it will just be some mad free for all, when in reality you will get employers doing random drug testing due to a zero tolerance at work. Same as the police will step up again being even more alert for drug drivers which will result in long term bans.
If anything, the only real people who would benefit would be the ones that aren't working.
Holland's experience in legalising weed hasn't backfired for all I know - correct me if I'm wrong.
I'd do the same for all the other drugs.
(09-01-17, 12:02 PM)darrsi link Wrote:
All theory of course, and some people, as always, will think i'm talking shite, but that's the way i see things.
There is no real straightforward answer, because as i said earlier the demand is so great that the police will never ever control it as things stand right now.
They'd control it as much as they can control other legal high demand articles: tobacco, alcohol, petrol, bread, meat...
(09-01-17, 12:02 PM)darrsi link Wrote:
Also, which drugs should become legal?
I've got a few mates who rarely know what time of day or night it is, don't know the meaning of punctuality and are useless at work, and they just smoke the weed.
I know other people on the harder stuff that turn into absolute monsters when they're on a mission.
There is no easy answer unfortunately.
All the drugs. You are responsible for what you do. But legalising them would help addicts not need to do crime for getting the drugs.
If a grown man wants to kill themselves - government shouldn't force them to live. Help, yes, but not force.
If a man wants to loose their freedom of choice, he shouldn't be forced to do otherwise - because that's their choice!
(09-01-17, 12:02 PM)darrsi link Wrote: As for the NHS, they're going downhill fast due to the influx of people coming into the country and using the system without putting anything into it in the first place.
How much money is spent this way on "figthing drugs"?
Police equipment, numbers, overtime hours, higher level of drug related small crimes done by addicts...
I think legalising would turn out quite well for all but the mafia.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
Legalising drugs will not stop the crime of those that want money to buy them.
It will stop the crimes relating to those selling the drugs though. Plod wont need to chase the dealers, the dealer may even pay taxes on their sales and as the drug trade is legal, the dealers will have less reason to arm themselves apart from to protect themselves from junkies after a fix with no cash. Sort of sorts itself out if you look at it that way, as the junkies will kill themselves with the drugs or get shot trying to steal the (now) legal drugs and plod can just turn a blind eye.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again
Quote:Society in the UK is making that choice more and more difficult every waking day. There is gun crime practically every night in and around the major cities and towns the length and breadth of the land.
Don't forget that the UK is one of the biggest arms exporters in the world, we'll sell to practically anybody. And our government doesn’t really give too much of a fuck what those weapons get used for.
So let’s just say that will all the shit we sell, combined with all the shit other countries sell, well it’s inevitable some of that stuff will end up creeping back in. You could call guns on the streets of the UK as a form of collateral damage.
As for drugs. Round here there is a small but steady stream of house break ins. Most of them are opportunist, and if you do pop out and forget to lock the back door or close all the windows and return to find you have been turned over you can just about guarantee you’ve been screwed by the local junkies. Just give em their shit for crying out loud. And clean shit that won’t then have them clogging up the NHS.
I'm fairly straight thinking where house burglars are concerned......just hang the bastards if found guilty! Even more so if they do it as a profession rather than just being desperate for money for drugs.
Job done.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
|
