Its foc'ing boiled over...

[philshaq]

hey guys, bit of a crap end to the day...


Normal commute home, not going nuts staying below 8k all the way back, noticed as I got to within 5 miles of home that it sounded like the fan had kicked in, but couldn't be sure as my earplugs are pretty good, I should have stopped but couldn't be sure it was the bike. First mistake!


I continued home, checking at each set of lights but couldn't pin the noise down to the fan and didn't notice the coolant that had sprayed all down the side of the bike. Second mistake!


got to within 400 yards of home and the temperature warning light came on...oh F@"k... I stopped immediately, killed the engine and got off, realised it was the fan and spotted the coolant all over the engine. I waited for it to cool down and then road the last 400 yards home, coasting with the engine off for the last 100.


Looking at it, its mostly down the right hand side of the engine, there isn't any water left in it but the oil is at normal level and there isn't any water in the oil (as far as I can tell by checking under the oil cap for residue).


Whats the most common solution? Thermostat, pipe popped off / split? I know its a shot in the dark without you guys seeing it. How should I go about checking for the most common things? I've never worked on a bike, lots of cars but not a bike. I'm guessing that once the tank is off its all easy to see?


Is it likely that I'll have done any damage to the engine by running it until the temperature warning light came on?


As always, I'll appreciate any comments, thanks

[darrsi]

For starters check that all the jubilee clips are done up firmly on all the pipes, they can come loose over time.


You really need to pinpoint where the fluid is coming from? The thermostat cap is at the front towards the right side under the tank, so make sure everything is tight around the housing area, or it may even be that the cap has undone itself. Unlikely, but check it anyway.


Normally if the system is all clogged up the fluid will boil then get dumped out of the overflow of the expansion tank, but that would go down a pipe onto the floor, so i'd guess either something is not done up tight enough, or maybe a split pipe?


If you top up the coolant then let the bike tick over with the tank safely raised then i'm sure it will only take a few minutes before it starts chucking it out again and you'll see where it's leaking from, that's if you can't see anything else that looks wrong beforehand.

[clayt74]

As said check all pipes also the rad for pinholes that are spraying out

I doubt you have caused any engine probs  if ya oil was still fine x

[philshaq]

Cheers darrsi and Clayt74, I'll give all that a check, do I just take the tank off to get access to things easily?

[darrsi]

You don't really want to take the tank off, because you may need to run the bike to locate the leak.
Ideally it's best if someone can hold it up for you as they're a bit unstable to prop up. If you have a full tank watch out for leaking of fuel though.

[His Dudeness]

that happened to me once and it turned that the the big o ring in the thermostat had failed and so the system was losing pressure and overheating. the thermostat is above the right side of the engine so that could be your problem

[limax2]

If you just undue the small bolt at the front of the tank and slacken the socket head bolt at the back you can pivot the tank up to get to the thermostat housing with the cap on top. That's were you need to check for water and fill if necessary before running the engine.

[philshaq]

Thanks guys, I'll check and report back today or tomorrow. fingers crossed

[Jezzer]

Take the tank off and turn it round onto the seat and bungee it down.  You will be able to attach the fuel hose on run the engine like that and see the thermostat housing and near-by pipes. 


Does the radiator get hot??

[darrsi]

Once you've hopefully located where the leak is coming from and fixed it, i would be inclined to do a flush of the coolant system as it may have partly been a cause of the problem.
I normally empty the system then refill with water and Rad Flush but leave it in for 2 or 3 days riding so it gives the system a good clean.
You're better off doing that now while the temperature is okay, as you don't want just water in the system in colder weather for obvious reasons.
Then get a good pre-mixed motorcycle coolant from a bike shop, i'd avoid any cheap stuff if i was you, and make sure it's topped up to the top of the thermostat cap and up to the correct line on the expansion tank.
Once you have an airtight sealed system the coolant will be good for quite a while, and you'll barely need to top it up that often.   

[philshaq]

hey guys. Thanks for the the comments. I took the tank off, and rotated it round so I could run the engine and watch the thermostat and coolant pipes a bit easier.


I put water into the rad cap and expansion tank as recommended in the haynes manual fastened the rad cap back down and ran the engine until warm, there wasn't any water coming from any where obvious, both pipes in and out of the thermostat housing warmed up as did all pipes out of the radiator. Ran for 15 min and there wasn't any water coming from anywhere, and the fan didn't kick in...


There was, however crap in the water (thats a technical term!) which I've tried to get photos off in the two pictures below. Could that be some kind of additive that was in the water rather than bits of head gasket?


Another thing I noticed is that its blowing white smoke out of the exhaust when I rev it up, although when I stopped it to put it back together and then started again to put it away, no white smoke! there was quite a bit of moisture coming out of the drain hole on the exhaust to start with so could it be once that had burned off, no more white smoke?


I spoke to the local garage and they think head gasket has gone, and have said it would cost between 600 and 1000 to sort it!


I really don't want it to be the head gasket, I need to run it daily and can't afford that amount when I only bought it 3 months ago!


Any thoughts on what else I could be checking? and how big a job would replacing the head gasket be / is it worth doing or would an engine swap be a better idea?


Thanks guys

[philshaq]

forgot to add the photos!!

[darrsi]

Dirt on the cap maybe Rad Seal or something similar?
Check your oil window for any signs of coolant/water.
The thing is, you did lose a lot of coolant, so where from and why?
White smoke is normally either condensation (cold weather) or possibly a leaking gasket, but i think it would also leak in to the oil which is why that needs looking at.
When you were riding home when it originally happened was it raining?
I was thinking because as it had coolant in the engine, which is sticky, you may be able to pinpoint what area it leaked from with a torch, even in the dark, as long as rain hasn't interfered obviously?
Just an idea........ :rolleyes 

[limax2]

When the engine first over heated it could have loosened all sorts of crap which may be what you are now seeing. If you run the engine with the pressure cap off and see loads of bubbles in the water, that would indicate the head gasket has blown. Darrsi's suggestion for locating the source of the leaks sounds good. Otherwise a short ride might reveal where the water is coming from. If after a short ride the plastic tank has considerable more water in, then again it could be the head gasket due to the system becoming over pressurised.

[philshaq]

cheers for responding Darrsi, it may have been rad seal, not sure. I didn't think of checking the oil window for water... I'll do that in the morning when I have some light to work with!


It wasn't raining when I was coming home so I did try and trace back but couldn't really find anywhere, which makes me think... as it was down the right hand side of the engine and its not the thermostat housing maybe it was the radiator cap springing open when the pressure got too high and pissing coolant all over the right side of the engine. Does it have a spring loaded cap? I know some cars do, but not sure about the bike...


Good point re all the crap being loosened, I'll try to give the engine a run with the cap off and see what happens, failing that I think I'm stuck with having to change the head gasket as its deffos not an obvious cooling system leak, unless anyone can think of anything else I should try.


I might have the head off tomorrow for skimming this week to re-fit next weekend, is there anything else I should do while the head is off? Cam Chain for example?


Thanks

[darrsi]

Going back to what i said earlier, if you had a blocked system it will boil and dump the coolant, definitely from the expansion tank, although i'm not sure about the cap end, maybe someone else can answer that one for me?
The white smoke is throwing me a bit, as you say it stopped?  :rolleyes
I'm still wondering if you should attempt a rad flush before starting anything major, because if it's clogged up with Rad Weld or the like then that will still dump the coolant through lack of flow!
Rev the engine with the thermostat cap off as well and see if the fluid pops up, to make sure the water pump is working, otherwise you've got yourself a large kettle!  :lol

[born to be mild]

The small pipe at the front right hand lower corner of the radiator is prone to splitting, [ right hand as sat on the bike]. Mine went and when I got one from the dealer he told me that theyd sold a few of them, I hope its that as its an easy fix. The white smoke is hopefully just condensation.

[philshaq]

cheers guys, I'll drain the water out and do a proper flush in the morning, check that small pipe Born to be Mild and cross my fingers while snogging a rabbits foot!


The white smoke did indeed stop Darrsi... which is very puzzling, I'm hoping condensation and a clogged system rather than a head gasket!

[Major Rant]

If it helps any ... I have cooked mine until the warning light came on by leaving it idling in the garage for hours by mistake...
10 years later it still works..

[Major Rant]

Also .. I would have a good look at the water-pump... Haynes says "Check the water pump drain-hole for evidence of leakage" as if it is quite a common problem.
Haynes also says its easy to replace , but I've never done it.

The crud on your radiator cap could well be an emulsion of coolant and dirty oil and it COULD result from a head gasket failure but its worth checking the pump first.