I'm a Scottish Nationalist, and yes a republican.
Quote:They won't seize power, their role in government is purely symbolic
Try telling that to the British Citizens Diego Garcia, our lovely Queen was only too happy to sign a Royal Decree (bypassing parliament) to have them forcibly removed and dumped in Mauritius and the Seychelles, in order that the British could lease the island to the USA as an airbase.
Quote:There are a part of our heritage and the rest of the world envy us
Did anybody watch the Queens speech? No of course not, OK did you see clips of it, is the rest of the world not laughing at us.
And of course we are all in this together - oh yes!
Every day I watch the world news and thank whoever it is up there that I was born in Britain. Before you all want to rip this great country to pieces- fancy a day or two in Baghdad or Tel-Aviv? Fancy running a street market stall in downtown Kandahar?
I like the Monarchy- its pagentry that Britain is built on not politics- who gives a monkeys what DC signes his love texts to Rebecca Brooks and what Clegg thinks and as for the boy Millipede :lol - but when the Queen comes out of Buck house - the streets are lined with people wanting to get a glimpse- she came to our village during the last Jamboree ten years ago- a tiny village in mid Wales and I was stood no more that three feet away from her burly bodyguard.... and she is tiny!
The thing I saw on the news this week was tree huggers trying to get the Empire taken out of the OBE, CBE etc. If you have done good things and Queenie would like to give you a gong are you really worried that this countries wealth was built on oppression and empire several hundreds of years before you or the tree huggers were born and at a different time and circumstances
A few hundred years ago we all lived in mud huts and life was cheap- it is no good asking for an apology for what was done all that time ago to ancesters you never knew. If you must think back to say Queen Vickies time- think how under the empire things improved in the countries that were part of the empire and how quickly they reverted to tribalism and barbarism as soon as we left... think of most of the African countries for example- Rhodesia- now Mugabe land- I dont think our history is too bad as an influencing nation.
I say keep the monarchy - it does more good than harm- which is more than can be said for the current Government and the Lords
Greybeard now
On the subject of empire it has crossed my mind how strong and successful would it be if it was still together now? But I have in mind an empire as multi-cultural and PC as the UK is today
Thats not very though is it Chris! :\
Greybeard now
In my country there was socialism for some 50 years (1945 - 1990). That was the only period when a normal, average working man could get a job, educate his children (for free), get decent health care (for free), travel to the sea, mountains, get a car, a flat etc.
Before 1945 my country had kings.
After 1990 my country has democracy.
Both those periods have: poor working class, few rich people. If I had to choose between rotten democratic politicians and mad autocratic king, I'd go for the king, because I respect vilains and despise spineless politicians. Best solution is a good king IMO.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
However you view it there are two forces at work in our world-Fear & Greed. The aim of all political systems is to build power to enable control.
How you view history depends on where & when you live and who is writing the book!
I was fortunate to be born in post-war Britain with few employment or race issues but it didnt stop many of my era protesting against Nuclear weapons, Vietnam etc when we became politically aware in the 1960s.Now I am a 60 something realist I still follow the advice of Bob Dylan -"Dont trust Leaders"...etc or The Who-"Wont Get Fooled Again" The one thing I cant tolerate is injustice whatever form it takes.
These days I observe but dont march(May join Pensioners Power though!).
Who can you trust?- Most people who ride a motorcycle for starters. Thats why I love everything to do with bikes-they give me those beautiful moments of freedom & happiness & comradeship! Long Live Motorcycling! 
(13-05-12, 08:24 AM)Dave48 link Wrote: Who can you trust?- Most people who ride a motorcycle for starters. Thats why I love everything to do with bikes-they give me those beautiful moments of freedom & happiness & comradeship! Long Live Motorcycling!
Here here. You will always find a a rotten apple in the barrel somewhere, but trusting a biker is a pretty high probability proposition, unless they're a Hell's Angel and you're not in the club of course :rolleyes
Quote:If you must think back to say Queen Vickies time- think how under the empire things improved in the countries that were part of the empire and how quickly they reverted to tribalism and barbarism as soon as we left... think of most of the African countries for example- Rhodesia- now Mugabe land- I dont think our history is too bad as an influencing nation.
Gosh! I don't think that invading and taking over other countries as one's own can ever be justified, nor can it be something to be proud of. Barbarism? Oh yes there was plenty of that! However I think that the British, given time, learned a great deal from their colonial experience.
I'm far from being brilliant when it comes to history. But if I remember correctly Rhodesia declared independence from the UK under the white supremacist government of Ian Smith, this against Britain's then policy of no independence without majority rule.
The racist minority Rhodesian government turned down opportunity after opportunity with many moderate black leaders to move towards a peaceful and inclusive democracy. So hence, eventually, and inevitably, Mr Mugabe.
Rhodesia split into Zambia and Zimbabwe. While Zimbabwe is currently a basket case under Mugabe, in recent years things have begun to look up for Zambia.
And of course as the old colonial powers lost their grip across Africa, we then had the cold war superpowers manipulating and fighting for control or influence across Africa. Furthermore the following so called free market globalisation did nothing to help third world economies to get back on their feet. The state of Africa really is an issue for the west, it's largely our doing.
Perhaps the good stuff 'we' leaned from the days of the Empire are slipping away. Thatcher openly supported apartheid, while our current Tory government talks of putting British trade before human rights.
Quote:If you have done good things and Queenie would like to give you a gong are you really worried that this countries wealth was built on oppression and empire several hundreds of years before you or the tree huggers were born and at a different time and circumstances
So no, the people I really respect are those who turn down such awards.
(11-05-12, 10:37 AM)Motorbreath link Wrote: I suspect that your kings and queens have made a far better job so I understand you like them.
At least your king goes to watch MotoGP. He actually got Pedrosa and Lorenzo to shake hands when they were bitter rivals.
Zambia and Zimbabwe... two different outcomes to the end of the empire
Still come back to the first line of my tirade- every day I thank whoever it is up there who decreed that I was born and live in Great Britain
Greybeard now
How strong would we be if the Empire still existed said someone, a bloody sight stronger than we are now. I had the privilege(?) of visiting India last year (and, unfortunately, have to go back again this year). Someone was saying how it seemed odd that we had to apply for a visa to visit a country that we used to own, the reply to this was that it was probably a better place when we did own it, it looks like the last time the streets were swept was when we owned it too. I was asked what my first impressions were and all adjectives began with S, shithole, stench, squalor, smog, slums. Personally I think we should have kept hold of what we had rather than give it to the locals to fuck up.
Me, I'm British and proud of it. Politicians come and go, try to leave their mark but in the main are forgotten, the monarchy has always been here and hopefully always will. And as for the comment that they could take power and overrule the Government, could they do a worse job?
(14-05-12, 11:25 PM)rustyrider link Wrote: How strong would we be if the Empire still existed said someone, a bloody sight stronger than we are now. I had the privilege(?) of visiting India last year (and, unfortunately, have to go back again this year). Someone was saying how it seemed odd that we had to apply for a visa to visit a country that we used to own, the reply to this was that it was probably a better place when we did own it, it looks like the last time the streets were swept was when we owned it too. I was asked what my first impressions were and all adjectives began with S, shithole, stench, squalor, smog, slums. Personally I think we should have kept hold of what we had rather than give it to the locals to fuck up.
My province was ruled by Austria (Austria-Hungary later). It was prosperous time, but often hard oppression was used. So mixed feelings on this. Good technical and cultural advance, but little freedom. After being reunited with "motherland", all autonomy was lost. So it was a lot of freedom of speech, waving flags etc, but less industrial, scientific and economy progress.
All in all, good things that happen to a country occupied by foreign country are not for the occupied country's sake. Swept streets you're talking about, infrastructure etc. were made so the occupied colony could more easily be exploited, not in order to do good to the "locals".
And the only reason colonies were "set free" is because it is easier and more efficient to give a country a loan, with high interest, and let locals whip themselves to pay it off (which they never will), instead of occupying with force, army etc, since that is a lot more expensive.
My country was bombed by NATO (i.e. UK and USA). The thing I most hated was cynical tirade on foreign TV: "we're here to stop genocide, to humanitarian aid..." Nazis were more honest when they bombed us.
(14-05-12, 11:25 PM)rustyrider link Wrote: Me, I'm British and proud of it.
Most nations say this. 
(14-05-12, 11:25 PM)rustyrider link Wrote: Politicians come and go, try to leave their mark but in the main are forgotten, the monarchy has always been here and hopefully always will. And as for the comment that they could take power and overrule the Government, could they do a worse job?
Couldn't agree more.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
(14-05-12, 12:17 PM)Chillum link Wrote: [quote author=Dave48 link=topic=2934.msg23447#msg23447 date=1336893884]
Who can you trust?- Most people who ride a motorcycle for starters. Thats why I love everything to do with bikes-they give me those beautiful moments of freedom & happiness & comradeship! Long Live Motorcycling!
Here here. You will always find a a rotten apple in the barrel somewhere, but trusting a biker is a pretty high probability proposition, unless they're a Hell's Angel and you're not in the club of course :rolleyes
[/quote]
Yes, now that the system is failing we should start an outlaw no-harley-mandatory club. F+ck the politicians and their caged sheeps. By the way, Hell's Angels are not that bad, they can be pretty friendly.
Damn the previous message was the last part of this one, I made a mistake.
I suspect that your kings and queens have made a far better job so I understand you like them.
At least your king goes to watch MotoGP. He actually got Pedrosa and Lorenzo to shake hands when they were bitter rivals.
Yes, he is very good with this sort of things. But when it comes to important questions he is awful.
A lot of poor people in the Sahara ex-colony live now in camps, ruled by the Moroccan army, because he is a coward. He went against UN (and the last orders of the dictator by the way), which proposed that the natives had to vote being spanish or independent. Instead of this he ordered to abandon when the Moroccans menaced with invading it. So he left the natives even without weapons to fight against them. He was not able to explain the to the rest of the world that the moroccans weren't the natives as they claimed, as the sahara people are different tribes. So he is also a loser as diplomatic.
He also has earned a lot of money, nobody knows how, while his rule. He had no money when he started and the amount that the state gives him is not so big.
At least the past weeks his propaganda did not work and he was found hunting elephants with one his lovers while the country is falling, lots of old ladies dislike him now :lol . You british are lucky with your kings not being Bourbons, your history would have been very different. Romans, goths, muslims, spaniards and germans had provided good rulers here but this dinasty only has lead us to civil wars, lost wars and poverty.
Yes, they are symbolic now. A symbol of the worst side of this country.
the "quote" marks are gone... so is the "modify" button :wall
Worry less, enjoy good weather, good wine and good football!
Espania!
SAK NOEL - Loca People (What the f**k)
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
(15-05-12, 12:35 PM)Slaninar link Wrote: Worry less, enjoy good weather, good wine and good football!
Espania!
SAK NOEL - Loca People (What the f**k)
Haha thanks mate :lol
Quote:And the only reason colonies were "set free" is because it is easier and more efficient to give a country a loan, with high interest, and let locals whip themselves to pay it off (which they never will), instead of occupying with force, army etc, since that is a lot more expensive.
In the case of the UK it was largely because we were bankrupt after ww2. The Americans were also keen to see the end of the British Empire, pretty much becuase they now saw the oppertunity to be the leading world power.
America wasn't interested in ruling the British way, globalisation is the new imperialism. A new slicker way of controlling and exploiting.
Of course talking of India and then China, the world is changing again, these are the two countries that are going to be the economic and political power houses of the future. The UK really needs to get it's act together, as lets face it, they may not think twice about treating us the way we treated them.
I have given up watching "national" news on TV. Seen & heard it all before. I still say that its all about power & who wields it. Its a shame that governments arent made up of motorcyclists. At least we know whats real. What is it about us humans that we cant learn the lessons history teaches us? :eek
back to the original topic, I wonder if the republicans among us will be going back tow work on Tuesday the 5th June?
thou shalt not kick
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