Family Military Traditions

[VNA]

While I agree with no one should be made to wear a poppy your referenece to "Lady Haig" is not quite right, it had nothing to do with her what so ever see below taken off the Poppy Factory web site

Indeed you are correct about that hideous poem, the Americans the French Women and Earl Haig.  The first factory I think opened in England in 1920.  Lady Haig Established a factory in Edinburgh in 1926 http://www.ladyhaigspoppyfactory.org.uk/home and hence the poppy is commonly known to many as Lady Haig's poppy.

The poem urges us to take the fight to our foe, whilst I guess butcher Haig and his wife will be there with a little support should we make it back.

Yes people are told today to wear their poppy, and told to think of their career prospects if they refuse to do so.  If you are a BBC news presenter or journalist you will not be allowed on TV in the run up to Armistice Day unless you wear a poppy, and it must be a red poppy.

Commercialisation?  Oh yes, The British Legion are up for a bit of that, from their web site,

Get involved with the poppy appeal -

Increase sales and competitive advantage

, check it all out for yourself on one of their corporate pages complete with photo of babes throwing poppies about like confetti.  http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-invo...rtnerships

I used to wear a red poppy, but that's when it was about the quiet respectful mourning of the millions, the lost generation of The Great War.  But after visiting my Great Grandfather's grave, his generation being the first to have graves - the army previously shipping their bodies home to be minced up and used as fertilizer - I couldn't escape the irony of it all nor fail to notice the way the appeal was slowly changing.

I don't deny the very good work that the legion does, but why should our veterans, and veterans of whatever stupid war, right or wrong, fighting for rich men, then have to rely on charity to keep their heids above the watur.

Pride and ultimate sacrifice?  I have no idea how my Great Grandfather died, perhaps he was performing some heroic act, or more likely he was mowed down with 100's or 1000's of others having been ordered over the top to almost certain death by a cretin general.  The Great War is a fascinating example of how a few mad men can control 100,000's.  Making an example of a soldier, perhaps picked out at random, by murdering him seemed to be one handy little tool.

Anyway I'm sorry if I offend, but the poppy appeal gets bigger and bigger, more and more crass, dragging on unavoidably increasingly celebrating war, pride and sacrifice. 

Ach back to Harry Patch, who yes wore a Red Poppy on remembrance day;

When the war ended, I don't know if I was more relieved that we'd won or that I didn't have to go back. Passchendaele was a disastrous battle – thousands and thousands of young lives were lost. It makes me angry. Earlier this year, I went back to Ypres to shake the hand of Charles Kuentz, Germany's only surviving veteran from the war. It was emotional. He is 107. We've had 87 years to think what war is. To me, it's a licence to go out and murder. Why should the British government call me up and take me out to a battlefield to shoot a man I never knew, whose language I couldn't speak? All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that  Harry Patch.

[Gnasher]

The first factory I think opened in England in 1920.  Lady Haig Established a factory in Edinburgh in 1926 http://www.ladyhaigspoppyfactory.org.uk/home and hence the poppy is commonly known to many as Lady Haig's poppy.

Whether Lady Haig highjacks the idea and sets up a factory in Scotland 4 years later is irrelevant, the poppy is the poopy she can call her factory what she likes and I've never heard of them but not being Scottish I guess I wouldn't!

Anyway I'm sorry if I offend, but the poppy appeal gets bigger and bigger, more and more crass, dragging on unavoidably increasingly celebrating war, pride and sacrifice.

Mate you are fully entailed to your view, which I respect but I for one don’t agree with it and there I will leave it.

[Skippernick]

[quote author=VNA link=topic=11292.msg121256#msg121256 date=1389727007]
Anyway I'm sorry if I offend, but the poppy appeal gets bigger and bigger, more and more crass, dragging on unavoidably increasingly celebrating war, pride and sacrifice.

Mate you are fully entailed to your view, which I respect but I for one don’t agree with it and there I will leave it.
[/quote]


Wearing a poppy on Remberance Sundya and Armistice Day and a couple days either side i agree with , but yes you are right on the over commercialisation of it, oh bit like christmas, trees go up after the above days, really!!!

[fazersharp]

I think the BBC are the worst for it as im sure that they have an whole army (pun) of poppyers whos sole job it is to make sure every single person appearing HAS to wear one.

[fazersharp]

I think I was me that is to blame for sending this thread off in this poppy direction with my ring of red track remark, which I slightly regret now its gone off on one.
All I wanted was a ride around a track without paying for a track day !!!

[VNA]

Ach, it's an opinion, a point of view, it's how I feel about this whole war and remembrance thing.

You know what if we put all the effort that we put into war, say into peace and prosperity, peace and prosperity for all......................

However, whilst much of our industry is in chronic decline, our 'defence' industry is in rude health, apparently currently worth between 30 and 40 billion quid in exports.  It's what some folks call a Industrial Military Complex.  Without war we face economic ruin. 

War, what is it good for?  Our economy - apparently.

Anyway here is where my Great Granddad lies.  I do hope I got the right fella!

I took the picture in 2001.  I showed it to my Mum and my Aunt.  I never showed it to anybody else, until I scanned the slide and posted it in 2011 on a photo-sharing site, and this is what I wrote, and like I say it's just about how I feel about things.  Sorry if I'm going on a bit Gnasher, but hopefully this is all I have to say for a wee while :groan




A few days ago my computer screen said "11-11-11, a once in a lifetime remembrance".  I wondered what that meant. 
I heard on the radio of footballers wanting to play with the poppy on their shirts.  Fifa said no.  Politicians, fools sporting poppies, whilst sending yet more young men to their deaths, debated Fifa's ruling in Parliament.  The fools were outraged.  So, Fifa said OK, they can wear a black arm band with a poppy on it.  I wondered, what if one player says no, no I won't wear Lady Haig's Poppy, what then.
I read in my paper of Pop Idol contestants and judges sporting glitzy designer poppies. 
This is my Great Grandfathers Grave.  He, like hundreds of thousands of others, was marched needlessly to his death.  David, Son of Arthur and Mary, slaughtered at the Battle of Arras.
This photograph was taken in 2001, the slide says 01-11-01.  I got a taxi out there from Arras.  I found the grave, I sat down and offered some flowers.  Had I really found him, was he really there, did it really matter.  I spent a little time there, before quietly walking the eight or nine miles back to Arras. 
David's wife never even saw his grave, I may be the first from our family to do so.  But then I don't really know.  That death changed our family forever, maybe others, that I know not of, have also visited. 
So yes David, you are remembered, but no David I don't wear, I won't wear Lady Haig's Poppy. 

[demic77]

My Great Great Grandfather was killed somewhere near Arras, he died 10th October 1918 in the last month of the war. He was a driver with 56th Motor Transport Company, Army Service Corps, they were attached to the artillery and resupplied the guns with ammunition. He conceived my Great Grandmother whilst home on leave, returned to France and didn't come back. His truck was his by a shell and exploded, he survived for a short time after but succumbed to his wounds in a casualty clearing station, which to my understanding is a large military hospital some way behind the lines.
My great grandma never met her father but we traced him through the commonwealth war graves commission and took her to France about ten years ago to see him for the first time. Since then she has passed away, but we have revisited with my grandma and we took my children this year.

[fireblake]

Some interesting facts and a bit controversial.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25776836


Mickey

[BBROWN1664]

VNA - Why are you such an argumentative git? (I could have said something much worse)

My granddad was in the Navy during WW2 and the other granddad was something to do with the desert rats but I never managed to speak to him about it as he died when I was about 10. He never spoke to my mum or nan about it either so his story will ever be known by me. The one that was in the navy however only died about 5 years ago so I managed to speak to him a bit about his time in the navy and even managed to sail to France with him and go to the Normandy beaches where he was recounting some sorry tales.
As I said, he died 5 years ago and now my nan has cancer and may not get to see the 70th anniversary of D-day but if she does and she is fit enough to travel, I plan to be in Normandy with her on 6th June 2014 wearing a poppy to remember all of those that didn't make it off the beaches and helped ensure that cocks like VNA don't have German as their first language.

[fazersharp]

Comments like, "he like hundreds of thousands of others, was marched needlessly to his death" well yeh, but my Dad survived and so does that mean he was therefore marched out of a necessity to a victory.
I wonder what your attude would be if your great grandad had of made it through the war.

[VNA]

VNA - Why are you such an argumentative git? (I could have said something much worse)

I plan to be in Normandy with her on 6th June 2014 wearing a poppy to remember all of those that didn't make it off the beaches and helped ensure that cocks like VNA don't have German as their first language.

Ah I see, I'm a cock because I have my own opinion, and that opinion differs from yours.  Very good.

[fazersharp]

VNA - Why are you such an argumentative git? (I could have said something much worse)

I plan to be in Normandy with her on 6th June 2014 wearing a poppy to remember all of those that didn't make it off the beaches and helped ensure that cocks like VNA don't have German as their first language.

Ah I see, I'm a cock because I have my own opinion, and that opinion differs from yours.  Very good.

OI YOU TWO now that sort of thing is what started the war in the first place.
I would prefer to see this thread just carry on as it started.
If people want to have a fight then could we start a new thread and have it out there. I thick everyone should have the right to their opinion but I dont think it should be on this thread.

[VNA]

OI YOU TWO now that sort of thing is what started the war in the first place.
I would prefer to see this thread just carry on as it started.

Hang on a minute I'm not the one calling names.

I thick everyone should have the right to their opinion but I dont think it should be on this thread.

Perhaps I forgot something.  War is not the least bit controversial.  Not at all.  Just saying

[del30]

If you search for Deborah Bryant on Facebook she is a family tree expert who specialises in military or email ifindyourpast@gmail.co.uk

[Slaninar]

My grandfather fought with the Yugoslav Partisans ( Europe's most effective anti-Nazi [color=rgb(11, 0, 128)][/size]resistance movement[/color], holding a lot of German divisions busy[/size]) in the north of our country. Never liked to talk about war. Never hated Germans, just fascists. When I asked him if he got wounded, he laughed and said "yes, in the arse once".    He was decorated after the war (got those medals on his chest on some special occasions, but never talked about them).




Father was with the police during 1999. NATO bombing of my country, when the police were mobilized along with the army, entering police buildings that were targeted to save, or keep com. equipment working, but was lucky to get out in time every time.

[fireblake]

My grandfather fought with the Yugoslav Partisans ( Europe's most effective anti-Nazi [color=rgb(11, 0, 128)]resistance movement[/color], holding a lot of German divisions busy) in the north of our country. Never liked to talk about war. Never hated Germans, just fascists. When I asked him if he got wounded, he laughed and said "yes, in the arse once".    He was decorated after the war (got those medals on his chest on some special occasions, but never talked about them).




Father was with the police during 1999. NATO bombing of my country, when the police were mobilized along with the army, entering police buildings that were targeted to save, or keep com. equipment working, but was lucky to get out in time every time.

That's really interesting Slaninar,  the various resistance movements around Europe did an amazing job in keeping the German army busy. A very dangerous thing to do.


Mickey

[dazza]

Am quite surprised that we haven't heard anything about the heroic exploits of [b]EXUPNUTS[b] dad when he fought alongside colonel Custer in the battle of the Little Big Horn. :rollin Probably just being modest. I've got to say ever since I met him he has reminded me of someone but I just couldn't put my finger on it.........
UNTIL NOW....http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q...5928,d.ZGU

[Dead Eye]

"I only ride it, I don't know how it works" hahaha, yeah, that sounds familiar

[demic77]

[quote author=Slaninar link=topic=11292.msg131274#msg131274 date=1393828728]
My grandfather fought with the Yugoslav Partisans ( Europe's most effective anti-Nazi [color=rgb(11, 0, 128)]resistance movement[/color], holding a lot of German divisions busy) in the north of our country. Never liked to talk about war. Never hated Germans, just fascists. When I asked him if he got wounded, he laughed and said "yes, in the arse once".    He was decorated after the war (got those medals on his chest on some special occasions, but never talked about them).




Father was with the police during 1999. NATO bombing of my country, when the police were mobilized along with the army, entering police buildings that were targeted to save, or keep com. equipment working, but was lucky to get out in time every time.

That's really interesting Slaninar,  the various resistance movements around Europe did an amazing job in keeping the German army busy. A very dangerous thing to do.


Mickey
[/quote]


Certainly was. Photos from a trip to France and Flanders last year, this was in Arras where resistance fighters were shot by the nazis.
It was one of those places that has an aura about it, really quiet, no one around except us. Sobering.

[Slaninar]

Yugoslavia had a great resistance movement.  Holding a vast number of (mostly) German divisions - at the start of 1941 effectively postponing the start of the invasion of Russia, enough for the winter to creep in and stop the Germans - later helping allied war efforts.


First liberated territories in occupied Europe were in Serbia, with a functioning resistance's own bullets (and weapons) factory working for a few months.




By April 1945, there were some 800,000 soldiers in the Partisan army. Despite their success, the Partisans suffered heavy casualties throughout the war.