Family Military Traditions

[nick crisp]

There have been many rumours of what my step-grandfather did during the last war. He was born a Scot, and worked on the estate of some laird or other before WW2 broke out. His military service is little known by anyone it seems however. Stories of him fighting in the Pacific theatre, and a story about him "accidentally" parachuting (?) alone onto some Japanese-held island, which he then is supposed to have single-handedly "captured". All rumour, and no doubt the reality is somewhat less spectacular. However, it's certainly true that my grandmother threatened to kill him herself when, after the war, he sold all his medals!

So I wondered if anyone else on FOC-U had stories from their elders of the war, and if they ever talked about these things, as so many did not apparently. It is sad to note that there are, of course, fewer and fewer survivors from this terrible conflict around today - what a relief that many chose to tell their tales for books and TV before passing away. Perhaps you even know of your ancestor's exploits in conflicts pre dating WW2?

And on the subject, does anyone know where you would begin if you wished to try to uncover archives that might shed a little more light on what such relatives did? Alas, I don't even know what regiment my step-grandfather served in. All I have is his name, which is a fairly common name and so could easily be confused with others. And I would also like to find out more about other relatives, now passed away, who may or may not have had military roots. My extended family is now small and widespread, and have little knowledge of these things it seems.

[stevierst]

Are there any Old photos of him, or any old papers which might have his regimental number/unit on them? That's by far the easiest way of finding out more about him.

Your going to have to do a lot of searching with just a name and d.o.b. difficult, but not impossible.

[nick crisp]

D.O.B.? Er, yes, well..... You see, this could be tricky.  :lol

When he was admitted to a care home after my grandmother died, my mother found some photos in the loft of their old house, and there were some photos of him in his army uniform. Unfortunately, a somewhat, shall we say, eccentric aunt is thought to have got hold of them, and they've never been seen since.

[slimwilly]

Nick your Grand pappy sounds like James Bond, I hope the rumours are true.

I have been having Spanish speaking lessons for a couple of years up to 2 years ago, my personal tutor was 85 years old ,still alive now, he was a gunner in a bomber,stationed at Silverstone air base for one. when we went off topic sometimes , the stories were riveting, those men were heroes, flying over Germany , in the spotlights,shrapnel bombs going off all around them,he said once they got back home and they counted over 80 holes in their plane :eek

He is an amazing  bloke,, I could listen to him for ages,,sadly these heroes are disappearing,, I wish he would let me record his stories.
My mate who I go shooting with and drink with was in the sas, the stories he comes out with, well sometimes funny but still,they are brave men.i wish I was with him when they entered Saddams stash of gold and US dollars,,yes dollars, millions of them,,do you know what,,,they burnt them :eek .yep burnt them.

[chaz]

Nick you can search on Genes reunited for free but to view records you have to subscribe think you can get one month for £20 or pay to view but this could be expensive if a common name as you may have to go through dozens before you find the right person, thats if you do.
theres a chat forum on there where you can get help from others on the site.
I've traced my family back to 1600, but I have a uncommon surname. You can search birth, marriage, death records at "freebmd" for free but not scottish records, the site is from 1837 to 1950s . Also try familysearch this covers parish records and world records.
I spent hundreds of hours doing my family tree, good luck.

[ChristoT]

My great uncles were quite distinguished! My grandfather (paternal) missed the 2nd world war completely as he was off in the Sudan on colonial duties! However, two of his brothers fought in the 1st world war - and he narrowly escaped himself - long story, but it involves an incompetent doctor. Leonard died in the Somme, whilst Geoffrey survived, and got an MC, a DSO, and was mentionned twice in dispatches!

He got the DSO when he came across one of his men, unconcious, drowning in a pool of mud. Geoffrey lay down, and supported the man's head above the mud for 40hrs, shells and bullets flying overhead, until a medical team could come and save them both. The man survived.

[taylor]

my grand father was a bookies runner, banned from all mines because he beat up one of the owners, funny how they all stick together.

[fireblake]

My 2 sons aked what their Great Grandad did during the war. They both laughed when told that he was a Sergeant in charge of several packs of Donkeys in Burma.  A few weeks later while watching World at War they were talking about the war in the jungle and showed skinny men up to their waist's in mud trying to persuade packs of Donkeys to carry huge loads of munitions and food through the Burmese jungle. Lawrence Olivier then told us that without the Donkeys  the Allied troops would have lost their foot hold in the Asian peninsula to the Japanese.  The pride on those 2 young faces wss a joy to see, I just wish their Great Grandad was around to talk to us about it.

[Dead Eye]

My great granddad (paternal) fought in both WW1 and WW2 though I don't know of any stories and my granddad (paternal) was in the British Navy for WW2 - again, unfortunately I don't know much more than that. My great uncle (paternal - can we see a pattern?) was in the SAS but I'm pretty sure he missed WW2 (too young)

[fazersharp]

I feel an even more direct connection with the war as it was my Dad, my parents had me late in life they were in there 40s and so I am now still under 50, my dad would never talk about it but sometimes spoke about practical jokes he would play on his mates and how he would swap his ciggy ration for chocolate as he never smoked.
He and my Mum met befor the war and my mum worked in an ammunitions factory
He joined at 19 narrowly missed going to both Burma and Africa (which he was relieved about ) as we look back we now know those places were bad  but they also knew it then.
He did go to France Belgum and Germany
As a kid I remember he would always watch WW2 documentaries and how I would hate them boring, but what I would give now to sit down and watch them with him. He was never interested in collecting his service medals as he saw no point, he died after seeing all his children grow up and have their own children and when he died we applied for his medals and they now sit in a frame in my house.

[slimwilly]

Very nice story Fazersharp,,proud boy

[Gnasher]

And on the subject, does anyone know where you would begin if you wished to try to uncover archives that might shed a little more light on what such relatives did? Alas, I don't even know what regiment my step-grandfather served in. All I have is his name, which is a fairly common name and so could easily be confused with others. And I would also like to find out more about other relatives, now passed away, who may or may not have had military roots. My extended family is now small and widespread, and have little knowledge of these things it seems.

Its relatively straightforward process but it can be long winded if like in your case information is missing you have to be a detective.

You have three main choices in the ways to research: -

1. On line site's which you have to pay for.
2. The National Archive (old public records office) which is free.
3. Pay a researcher.

The best combination is a mix of 1 & 2 but that all depends where you live due to travel to Kew, how deep you want to go, how much time you have and how much you want to spend, option three can workout the cheapest sometimes if you don’t have the time and or live too far away form London.

Be aware that most personal WW2 records are still withheld and you can't see them on line or even at Kew unlike WW1 which have now been all released, those that survived WW2 Blitz that is! Once you know his Regt, No etc can prove who you are, you can get a summary of his record e.g. where, when etc from the army records office but it is just a summary often just half a page.  If you really get the bug and armed with the summary you can look into regimental history and with a lot of detective work place him in certain time frames match him to actions/battles, if he did anything of note bravery etc he will be named in war diaries which are available at Kew these are the real documents that were penned by his officer and you are touching history.

The amount of information that is available is mind blowing and at first you just can't take it all in but if you preserver you will find out most if not all of what you want to know.  Good luck mate lets us know how you get on.

[nick crisp]

Doesn't look promising at the moment. If I can locate some of the photos, maybe there'll be a clue, regimental/unit badge or something. But I don't think this is going to happen soon.

[mr self destruct]

Interesting thread.


My grandfathers are at opposite ends of the scale. As a kid my maternal grandad used to amaze my cousins and I with his war stories, how he served in Russia, Burma, Africa, France and Germany. The two I remember are about the helicopter (are you smelling a rat yet?) he flew chasing Hitler's rear guard to Berlin, and the time he killed a Japanese Captain in Burma, then stole his sword and killed the rest of the squad, with the bodies piling up on the sword 'like a big Jap kebab.' Turned out he was really a mechanic and never left the air base (I think he was based on the Isle of Man). He did meet my grandmother there though, probably the only thing he didn't bullshit about from the war.


My paternal grandad on the other hand, refused to say a word about his service until about 5 years ago, when he told his story to his two sons. They made notes, but he asked them not to tell anyone what he was going to say until after his death. I don't know what he did, but he died in Sept 2012 and my dad & uncle have kept the notes locked away, saying it was more to get things off his chest and that no-one should ever have to read things like that. I get the impression he did some morally questionable things during D-Day and the following period.
What I do know though, as I found out at his & my nan's funeral, is that he was born & raised in Castle Bromwich near the Spitfire factory (now Jaguar) which is where he met my grandmother, while sheltering under a bus during an air raid. He was home on leave and she was working at the factory as a quality inspector, ironically my job today at the same factory. They met and married in 1940, and after the war they never spent a night apart until my nan's death on the 15th September 1012 and his 6 days later, both aged 97.

[fazersharp]

I get the impression he did some morally questionable things during D-Day and the following period

Not many prisoners were taken as they had no where to put them or spare men to guard them at D-day, at the time they were trained to do one thing and they did it. Its only as time goes by and with the wisdom of age that gives time for deeper thought and reflection.

[esetest]

My Fatherinlaw Norman - Royal artillery ww2 - took part in battle of El Alamein , stationed on the rock , one of his highlights was a trip  in a flying fortress .
My maternal grandfather Eugene born in Alabama , stationed in Tavistock England , medical orderly in US army WW2 . his brother Delmer  stationed in Liverpool  WW2- then took part in Normandy landings , battle of bulge , liberated 2 concentration camps  , witnessed German guards being killed by ex prisoners ( they had orders not to intervene ) , died 2 years ago buried with full military honors . his other brother Jay was US army engineers WW2 and another brother Rufus also WW2 , all 4 brothers survived the war .
My Paternal Greatgrandfather Sam - joined Army in 1906 at 17 six months after his father was killed in industrial accident on new years day . I got his Army pension records online - after his training he was sent to India for 2 years , then Arabia after that where he claimed he met Lawrence of Arabia. He served 6 years then left married his cousin Maud , had my Grandfather , was recalled for WW1 sent to France with British Expeditionary force , took part in battle of Somme , where he was injured by shrapnel but survived .
My Maternal Great Great grandfather Charles - Royal navy , marriage cert says he was a gunner , by the time my Great grandmother was born he was a Chief Petty officer .

[richfzs]

They're still making spitfires? Cool!

My maternal grandfather was a pharmacist with boots in Nottingham, and was a protected profession, so his war was pretty safe.

My paternal grandfather, worked on the railways, again protected. His wife drove for the army, but don't know any more than that, other than she died when my dad was very young, whether her death was war related I'm not sure.

[nick crisp]

It wasn't always safe staying at home though, was it? My mother told me that she remembered being strafed by a German aircraft near Plymouth. Now, she was not one to make things up. She also remembered the Yanks handing out oranges and candy to the local kids.

Not family, but a guy I worked with not long ago was part of the Suez operations in the 50s. He used to jibe me that my Germany stint in the late 80s was a home posting. So I used to wind him up in turn, saying, yeah, but at least we kept the Soviet hordes at bay, and he ought to be sent back to recover the Suez Canal, as he failed in his job  :lol

[fazersharp]

My mum remembered the V1 rockets flying over (doodlebugs) she said that it was fine as long as you could hear the engine put-putting because when it stopped -- thats when it came down

[Dave48]

Dad joined the Queen Victoria Rifles KRRC Motor Cycle Battalion on 4th April 1939 aged 22.They went to France on 22nd May 1940 & held Calais against the advancing German panzers.  They held out until 4pm on Friday 24th May when the French commandant surrendered. (Their action helped while the BEF troops were being pulled off the beaches of nearby Dunquerque )He with his surviving comrades were marched across Europe to upper Silesia. He was POW until liberated by advancing allied troops at the end of the war. He was one of the "lucky" ones cutting timber in the forests. Most of those sent down the coal mines died.
His twin sister worked on the telephone exchange at the Admiralty throughout the blitz-enough to fray anyones nerves!
When I was a small boy living in Kent there were young German bomber aircrew ( about 22 yrs old) buried in our village churchyard. The Battle of Britain was raging over the skies of Kent & Sussex in 1940. Its hard to imagine the courage of those who went up time & time again in our defence, as well as the 110.000 men of bomber command, 55,000 of them died.
I miss my Dad who died 19 yrs ago-always remember him advising me not to buy a motorcycle-that clinched it for me & have been riding since 1965! :lol