Good post lew, could not agree more with a lot you also said.
Whether we like it or not, we the Brits are seen by a lot of the world as the has-been-bullies, those that ruled the British Empire with a rod of iron, who not only raped their lands but often their women to, of course not everyone who was British operated like that but I'm afraid we are all grouped together because of our title 'British' that is what we are, there is no discrimination between us, we are seen as no different to the Masters and Gentry as you rightly pointed out were the implementers of the Empire and our Goverment went along because it suited them and filled the coffers. So really there is no discrimination between us, those that do as they are told and the tellers, we are all British.
Just like there is no discriminated when a zealot or a mad crazed wicked bastard sets off a bomb in an arena with thousands of children in it, it takes out innocent children both Muslim and Christian.
I honestly don't think that any of the contributors to this discussion are very far from each other in our thinking when it come to the push. But what do we do about is armed police and military walking our streets carrying automatic weapons the answer? A idiot with a well aimed brick can get possession of and automatic weapon that can possibly fire off a hundred rounds a minute. Fucked if I know. What I do know is that I am sorry for what has lead to all this hatred and it is our children that will bear most of the brunt of it, I'm 70 and likely to go on for another ten or fifteen years my son and daughter and their children have to go on living with it and to be honest I fear it is not going to go away but most likely esculate.
Right I have now completely depressed myself where the fuck did I put that length of rope. :'(
Why is it that the Police have the powers to seize the passports of known troublemakers during football tournaments , but allow the 3000 known Jihadists to travel hither and thither , I won't say what I would do to these scum on a social platform as big brother is watching .
It took days for laws to be changed to make Kodi box type devices illegal to use in the way that most people use them but its taken years to get nowhere with preventing known (or suspected) terrorists from coming into the country.
(25-05-17, 06:13 PM)BBROWN1664 link Wrote: There was a post I saw on faceache today.
It took days for laws to be changed to make Kodi box type devices illegal to use in the way that most people use them but its taken years to get nowhere with preventing known (or suspected) terrorists from coming into the country.
That's because greedy fat cat corporations were losing out on millions of pounds worth of revenue, much more Important than innocent lives.
My problem with the reposonse to all these 'terrorists' attacks is that having armed guards/soldiers would have not changed a thing about what happened Monday night. It wouldn't have mattered if they had tanks parked either side of the entrance, wouldn't have mattered if they had metal detectors on the doors, NOTHING would have stopped that asshat doing what he was gonna do.
Putting the army on the streets does nothing more than intimidate the innocent and help keep US in check.
A suicide bomber has already come to terms with the fact they are gonna die so they aren't gonna be bothered who's got a gun as long as they can press their button.
Not to get all tinfoil hat on you but it does seem like there's a higher agenda here. Much like in America after 9/11 they pushed through massive amounts of laws that stripped people of their privacy in the name of keeping the country safe.
They've already started here with the snoopers charter. What's next though? How long before we all have to carry ID? How long before you have to be searched before entering shopping centers/schools/libraries etc? Before your privacy is taken away in the name of 'security'? The harsh truth is 'terrorism' is very good for governments when they have an agenda to push.
And on a final note, The truest words I've heard from a celebrity in my life, I've never thought much of Morrissey but this time he's bang on.......
Arrest the 3000 known Jihadists fit it a small explosive charge inserted by their carotid artery , that detonated when they walk out the front door , no need for soldiers on the streets , deportation or POW camps.
25-05-17, 10:05 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-17, 10:19 PM by tommyardin.)
(25-05-17, 09:40 PM)esetest link Wrote: Arrest the 3000 known Jihadists fit it a small explosive charge inserted by their carotid artery , that detonated when they walk out the front door , no need for soldiers on the streets , deportation or POW camps.
Would not want to be a postman in that area, Mr Jihadist steps out his front door to sign for the parcel Boom [size=1em]One dead Jihadist, one seriously fucked postman. [/size]
:lol :rollin :rollin :rollin :lol
(25-05-17, 07:09 PM)Dudeofrude link Wrote: [quote author=BBROWN1664 link=topic=22643.msg261354#msg261354 date=1495732396]
There was a post I saw on faceache today.
It took days for laws to be changed to make Kodi box type devices illegal to use in the way that most people use them but its taken years to get nowhere with preventing known (or suspected) terrorists from coming into the country.
That's because greedy fat cat corporations were losing out on millions of pounds worth of revenue, much more Important than innocent lives.
My problem with the reposonse to all these 'terrorists' attacks is that having armed guards/soldiers would have not changed a thing about what happened Monday night. It wouldn't have mattered if they had tanks parked either side of the entrance, wouldn't have mattered if they had metal detectors on the doors, NOTHING would have stopped that asshat doing what he was gonna do.
Putting the army on the streets does nothing more than intimidate the innocent and help keep US in check.
A suicide bomber has already come to terms with the fact they are gonna die so they aren't gonna be bothered who's got a gun as long as they can press their button.
Not to get all tinfoil hat on you but it does seem like there's a higher agenda here. Much like in America after 9/11 they pushed through massive amounts of laws that stripped people of their privacy in the name of keeping the country safe.
They've already started here with the snoopers charter. What's next though? How long before we all have to carry ID? How long before you have to be searched before entering shopping centers/schools/libraries etc? Before your privacy is taken away in the name of 'security'? The harsh truth is 'terrorism' is very good for governments when they have an agenda to push.
And on a final note, The truest words I've heard from a celebrity in my life, I've never thought much of Morrissey but this time he's bang on.......
[/quote]
What is your objection to carrying an identity card? also what is your objection to being searched before entering a Shop or Sports venue Etc! We had to live with it in N Ireland for 30 years plus during the troubles. Anyone who does object to carrying an TD card must have something to hide, Also if searched before entering a shopping centre surely the 15 seconds wasted of your life would only make your shopping experience better knowing that you may jst be a little bit safer to enjoy your day.
MT-09 Tracer for those who no longer can handle a BIG boy Fazer
(25-05-17, 10:16 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote: [quote author=Dudeofrude link=topic=22643.msg261362#msg261362 date=1495735788]
[quote author=BBROWN1664 link=topic=22643.msg261354#msg261354 date=1495732396]
There was a post I saw on faceache today.
It took days for laws to be changed to make Kodi box type devices illegal to use in the way that most people use them but its taken years to get nowhere with preventing known (or suspected) terrorists from coming into the country.
That's because greedy fat cat corporations were losing out on millions of pounds worth of revenue, much more Important than innocent lives.
My problem with the reposonse to all these 'terrorists' attacks is that having armed guards/soldiers would have not changed a thing about what happened Monday night. It wouldn't have mattered if they had tanks parked either side of the entrance, wouldn't have mattered if they had metal detectors on the doors, NOTHING would have stopped that asshat doing what he was gonna do.
Putting the army on the streets does nothing more than intimidate the innocent and help keep US in check.
A suicide bomber has already come to terms with the fact they are gonna die so they aren't gonna be bothered who's got a gun as long as they can press their button.
Not to get all tinfoil hat on you but it does seem like there's a higher agenda here. Much like in America after 9/11 they pushed through massive amounts of laws that stripped people of their privacy in the name of keeping the country safe.
They've already started here with the snoopers charter. What's next though? How long before we all have to carry ID? How long before you have to be searched before entering shopping centers/schools/libraries etc? Before your privacy is taken away in the name of 'security'? The harsh truth is 'terrorism' is very good for governments when they have an agenda to push.
And on a final note, The truest words I've heard from a celebrity in my life, I've never thought much of Morrissey but this time he's bang on.......
[/quote]
What is your objection to carrying an identity card? also what is your objection to being searched before entering a Shop or Sports venue Etc! We had to live with it in N Ireland for 30 years plus during the troubles. Anyone who does object to carrying an TD card must have something to hide, Also if searched before entering a shopping centre surely the 15 seconds wasted of your life would only make your shopping experience better knowing that you may jst be a little bit safer to enjoy your day.
[/quote]My plan is cheaper , and only infringes on the rights of those intent on doing us harm , I would extend it to serial murderers and sex offenders .
(25-05-17, 10:16 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote: What is your objection to carrying an identity card? also what is your objection to being searched before entering a Shop or Sports venue Etc! We had to live with it in N Ireland for 30 years plus during the troubles. Anyone who does object to carrying an TD card must have something to hide, Also if searched before entering a shopping centre surely the 15 seconds wasted of your life would only make your shopping experience better knowing that you may jst be a little bit safer to enjoy your day.
How many people who object to ID cards carry around their licence or a bank card?
It's no different really and as you say Lew, the only people that are against it tend to be the ones who want to hide from something.
I have absolutely no objection to carrying an ID card as a means of helping combat these evil minded fanatics. After all I am well known to the authorities as I have a bank account, use a computer, smartphone,am on various governments databases eg DWP NHS etc. Any law abiding citizen would surely not object.
If the threat to our security came solely from outside our borders then we might not need this measure but its British citizens who are being radicalised by these hate preachers,sent off abroad for "brain washing" & training in terrorism then return to UK as though they have been for a holiday, freely admitted by our customs/border security people.
I read Lews post re Putins speech to the Russian parliament &, although I may not care for some of his actions, I wholeheartedly agree. If you want the benefits of living in a free democratic society then you abide by our rules. I am sick & tired of hearing about burkas, Sharia Law, Faith Schools, and other forms of "special treatment"
This is Britain 2017 FFS not some foreign country stuck in the dark ages way of thinking. And if people arent willing to become British citizens in respect of our laws & culture then why come in the first place?
You might think I am racist-I assure you I am not. I live in Birmingham the first city that will an experience a majority non-white population in the very near future.
My neighbours include white Brummies of English,Welsh, Scots & Irish descent, Afro Caribbeans, Asians of every religious persuasion & many from China, also East Europeans and we all mostly get along pretty well. There are areas of my city, however, where I feel uncomfortable & unwelcome-I guess in a similar way to how the first post war West Indiansimmigrants must have felt on arrival in the UK back in the 1940s & 50s.
(25-05-17, 07:09 PM)Dudeofrude link Wrote: Putting the army on the streets does nothing more than intimidate the innocent and help keep US in check.
Not that I think that it's good thing that our lords and masters feel it has come to this, but why are you intimidated by our soldiers?
Can't see how it stops these nutters though. Although the point is being made that they are only being used at static facilities to free up other policing resources for the streets. Which is a finger pointed squarely at those who have cut resources and manpower down to the bone.
(26-05-17, 09:38 AM)Hedgetrimmer link Wrote: [quote author=Dudeofrude link=topic=22643.msg261362#msg261362 date=1495735788]
Putting the army on the streets does nothing more than intimidate the innocent and help keep US in check.
Not that I think that it's good thing that our lords and masters feel it has come to this, but why are you intimidated by our soldiers?
Can't see how it stops these nutters though. Although the point is being made that they are only being used at static facilities to free up other policing resources for the streets. Which is a finger pointed squarely at those who have cut resources and manpower down to the bone.
[/quote]
Searching people will not stop the bombers, most people doing the searches are low paid workers and have only very basic training. A small bomb can be easily concealed and can do a lot of damage. And if you are a suicide bomber then realising you are going to be searched they will just set the bomb off anyway, they are not bothered who they kill and maim.
And as for the 3000 jihadists, that number is a joke, all the people who silently support them are just as guilty to me, when the mosque leaders start dragging these people down to the nearest cop shop then they can start blathering on about Islam being
a caring , loving, multicultural and liberal religion.
The unfortunate thing with all of this is they will end up with a ring of steel around venues and all it will do is move the problem back 50 m to where people are queuing to get through the scanners etc. It wont fix the problem.
(26-05-17, 09:38 AM)Hedgetrimmer link Wrote: [quote author=Dudeofrude link=topic=22643.msg261362#msg261362 date=1495735788]
Putting the army on the streets does nothing more than intimidate the innocent and help keep US in check.
Not that I think that it's good thing that our lords and masters feel it has come to this, but why are you intimidated by our soldiers?
Can't see how it stops these nutters though. Although the point is being made that they are only being used at static facilities to free up other policing resources for the streets. Which is a finger pointed squarely at those who have cut resources and manpower down to the bone.
[/quote]
Its not so much being intimidated by soldiers but more so guns in general.
Tell me this, hypothetically if you were out at say Alton Tower with your wife and kids and you saw armed police/soldiers walking around would that make you feel safer? Or would it make you feel on edge because they are only there because something might happen?
I dunno about you but I don't want my kids growing up thinking it's normal to see people walking around with guns.
Think back to the Charlie hebdo shootings in France, what were them guys dressed like?
Now what would be stopping terrorists dressing like army/police here when they wanna carry out a massacre?
You'd see them walk along with guns and not give it a second thought as you'd be so used to seeing armed solders day after day?
I know those of you from Northern Ireland would be used to it but I grew up in a normal safe environment where the only people with guns were the criminals and wannabe gangsters. I'very grown up under the notion that if they have a gun they're up to no good so get the fuck out the way.
And as previously stated it doesn't even help the situation. A bullet can't stop a bomb
When I was a kid it was normal to see people wandering around with guns. I lived in a village and you would often see kids with toy guns or air guns and others wandering off to the fields with shotguns.
Nowadays, you try it and you would get shot for carrying a realistic looking toy gun let alone the others.
I didn't feel unsafe then and I don't feel unsafe now.
Other countries police have always carried guns, it is a shame that our police are now doing the same because of whats happening. After all, a truncheon is no use against an AK47 is it.
The army are on the streets today because of two things. 1, not all the police are trained to carry firearms (unlike other countries) and the police forces have been cut back so far that there just aren't enough of them to show a presence these days.
I suppose being ex military myself, I'd hardly give it a second thought. Although of course, I'd prefer us not to need it. But armed police are now a firmly established thing here. Nothing to stop terrorists dressing up as policemen anyway. I think I would be in some measure reassured near to likely targets in that at least they may be able to lessen the ability of some nutter going berserk with a lorry or something.
It'd be nice to not need a military at all, or a police force for that matter, but I guess a country has to face realities, and the powers that be are trying to do that (at last). Whether they're going the right way about it or not...
Anyway, as said, they're supposed to be on static guard of facilities, so I don't see it being a big problem. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for them being shoved in the front line (because that is what it is now, and we're all in the trenches, like it or not - sensationalist? maybe, but certainly our major cities must feel a bit like that now), as they're likely to be targets themselves, but they'll do it without question because that is their job. And what a boring job, poor sods!
What are the solutions? Cos this time, it's not going to be like the Troubles of NI - it's not resolvable by talking, it's not resolvable by changes in policy. Convert to Islam or die! That's their mantra. They have no other motives.
27-05-17, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 27-05-17, 10:01 AM by VNA.)
I agree with much (though not all) of what has already been said by Dave48, joebloggs, tommyyardin, dudeofrude
The attack on Manchester is absolutely abhorrent. We all know this, we can all agree on that. I like many, if not all here, don't have the words the express how I feel about such actions.
But why are these things happenin?
I think Lew mentioned somewhere the first Gulf war, when he actually meant the second Gulf War. The first being the Iran Iraq war, a proxy war indirectly funded by America via Saudi Arabia. The Americans wanted to sort Iran out after they overthrew the American puppet Mahammad Reza Pahlavi (The Shah of Iran) in an Islamic Revolution.
And let us be clear, Mahammad Reza Pahlavi was a filthy murderous bastard of a dictator.
So a pissed of America came up with a scheme in which another of it’s filthy murderous dictators Saddam Hussein would take on Iran. Meanwhile the USSR decided to back Iran to the hilt. At roughly the same time the US decided to give the USSR it’s Vietnam and destabilised Afghanistan.
And on and on and on it goes.
Oh, and don’t forget our long-standing partners in the Middle East are Saudi Arabia, perhaps the dirtiest, nastiest most repressive regime of them all, and the birth place of Wahhabism the ideology that the so called Islamic State adhere to. I wonder – where does IS get it’s funding from?
This is deacdes of bloody and murderous Western foreign policy. The British Empire may thankfully long be dead, but we are still imperialists.
So as I’ve said many times on this forum. Who are the terrorists? Who are the real terrorists?
Do you know who really pisses me off? The Romans. Coming over here and imposing their way of life on us. We should bomb Italy. And while we're at it, what about the Normans? All our political woes could be said to be down to them. Time to invade Normandy.
(27-05-17, 09:57 AM)VNA link Wrote: But why are these things happenin?
We can't change the past. What is your policy for the present and future? ISIS and their plan to rule the world through an extreme version of Islam is here and now. What would you do about them? Bearing in mind that unless you convert to Islam, they'll kill you anyway, whether Britain pulls away from any dealings with Saudi, Oman, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, U.S.A., Israel..they'll still kill you unless you convert. What would you do?
So what do you suggest Hedgetrimmer? Continue to deny our murderous role in the world? Keep our heads buried firmly in the desert sand?
Don’t you understand that they are our creation?
Quote:What would you do?
I assume you wish to continue as we are. Continue our mad foreign policy. Keep destroying whole nations, keep bombing and killing our way round the world in some sort of strange hope that more of what hasn’t worked in the past will somehow work tomorrow.
