Corbyn - What colour is the sky on the planet where he lives?

[Graham53]

Yes Railtrack now network rail and east coast now run by virgin

Network Rail is of course a nationalised industry. Necessary because the rail infrastructure needs continuous national maintenance and upgrading in order for train companies to deliver. Railtrack, could not provide this in a million years.


National Express walked away from a major Inter City line, part way through a contract because they were incapable of making a profit even on this line and despite prices increases above inflation. It was taken into public ownership by East Coast which made a profit. Despite this the government gave the franchise to a Stagecoach/Virgin combination. I travel on this line a lot between London and Edinburgh or Newcastle. I can assure you the service is worse under 'Virgin' and the prices are higher.


Of course most of our railways are state owned. Unfortunately it's the German state, the Dutch state and the French State. They are very pleased that the profits they make from us go to subsidise their own national rail networks  :rolleyes

Not quite all it seems
Check the amounts paid by train operators to the DfT
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/marke...s-41m.html


I thought you were pro Europe it is after all their rules that make for foreign ownership of our train services and of course with the EU were powerless to stop it , have read of this from the new statesman
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/201...le-were-eu

[mtread]

If you read the article very carefully ....... you'll see the loss was caused by 'the costs associated with starting a new franchise' ie the cost of setting up the handover to Virgin.  As it says, the previous year they made £9.5 million profit, and in fact they returned £1 billion back to the taxpayer over 5 years http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/marke...-235m.html

[/size]I am pro-Europe, and I don't see a contradiction, but Railway travel is too important to be allowed to fail.
[size=small]

[Graham53]

I did see that but I also saw that virgin are investing 40 million for starters in new upgrades so if east coast were still running it and invested the same it would have wiped out all that 9 million in profit. It's the same old story nationalise the rail bleed it dry sell it off for the needed private investment.
[/size]The accounts show that revenues including ticket sales, parking and wi-fi, rose slightly to £733 million but the £41 million loss was due in part to a refundable £25.6 million deposit, £6.5 million in asset write-downs and an increase in the franchise premium paid to the DfT to £233 million, up from £217 million. [/size]So you're pro EU except railways run by EU operators that have put in tenders for franchises under EU rules that have beaten British operators.
Next you'll be saying the EU isn't responsible for the supply of unchecked unskilled labour flooding the employment market enabling businesses to take advantage of that and pay minimum wage
Because I think that's roughly what Citizen Corbyn was trying to say today

[mtread]

I think the £1 billion they handed back to the government would have paid for gold plated trains. The franchise was handed over to Virgin because of the typical Tory dogma 'public sector bad, private sector good'. Perhaps it only applies when they look inward to the UK.

[Graham53]

If it's a 5 year franchise and if the franchise premium is yearly which it looks like then at 233 million a year for 5 years then the government over the five years gets a bit more than a billion and doesn't have to fork out 40 million in new stock.
I'm open to be persuaded , but before privatisation was there any profitable and sustainable industries , I vaguely remember steel being bad , Did coal loose money?  ?? Not sure , gas I think was profitable but that's run out now, you've got to admit British rail was bad how long should the tax payer have paid to keep them afloat.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti national industry but in the past they've all been run so appallingly and abused by staff , management and governments alike in ways that would not be tolerated in private hands ( usually ) because private money is treated differently to public money, public money was wasted and unchecked in the past on all sorts of nonsense, Brit rails tilting train was a good example , millions wasted only to be scrapped then to be used by European train builders and is called pendolino and in use on rail services in Britain
I think the public sector bad dogma isnt just Tory , wasn't PFI in the NHS one of Tony's good ideas or implemented by them, I was working in a hospital as a porter , Pfi initiative came along to build a new wing with all the Portering , cleaning and catering given to Sodexo a European private backer of the wing , we all had to re apply for our jobs at minimum wage.  I know people who work at a council in various management positions and you would not believe the money and time wastage that goes on at all councils but then it's only public money there's loads of it to keep paying for everything isn't there ?
What's the left wing answer to it all take back national industry ,tax bankers bonuses , tax the rich , problem of losing money solved .. that worked well in the 70,s  84 p in the pound everyone with money buggered off not wanting to subsidise that crappy rail service and strikes
Then there's MPs with their expenses and second homes and free canteen and bar telling public sector workers that 1% is maximum pay rise then voting them selves much more % even though they too are public sector employees, I've never voted on my own pay rise have you ? but then its public money and it's treated differently

[celticdog]

Probably most folk don't give a foc about who owns the trains as long as they work, run on time are clean and not too overcrowded.
What I will say is that it's too important to be left to the open market to run. There isn't an efficient rail system anywhere that isn't subsidised by a government, it's too important it's the very fabric of a nation's infrastructure. But the UK being the UK we're sure to foc that up, the HS2 is the latest gravy boat for the lawyers and consultants to get on. I say gravy boat rather than train as it's so huge, worth so much money to them and it will take forever for it to stop or slow down, greedy foccers.


Anyway, Corbyn is a man of principle but he's about 40 years too late, the socialist utopia was crushed by Reagan and Thatcher. Socialism works in a mixed economy, we only need to look to Scandinavia for an example of how it works. Unfortunately we don't have the same mindset and culture so it won't work here. Why? Because ourselves and our de facto bosses the US of A do business by confrontation- hammering out deals, hostile takeovers, lowest price tender, ect. It's how we conduct capitalism, the Scandinavians work collaboratively for the common good, not the individual's gain. Corbynism is doomed, the man's a CND supporter, nothing wrong with this very admirable, but it's a big vote looser and doesn't fit in with the UK majority view or US foreign policy so he's doomed. Rant over.

[midden]

I can`t believe he gets paid £138,000 a year, socialism doesn`t half pay well!

Would you rather pay him £138,000  to rob the poor to feed the rich? 

[BBROWN1664]

Most of the rail operating companies are franchises where they make more money the more they invest.
Southern on the other hand are operators on behalf of the Government. Different structure where they get paid regardless of if any trains run.

[slappy]

[quote author=slappy link=topic=21647.msg249525#msg249525 date=1484053375]
I can`t believe he gets paid £138,000 a year, socialism doesn`t half pay well!

Would you rather pay him £138,000  to rob the poor to feed the rich?
[/quote]


Average wage in UK is £26500, I personally don`t believe you can consider yourself a true socialist if you are paid more than 5 times the average wage.
And I know what other people are paid makes Corbyn look like a pauper and that there are way too many others earning minimum wage but what is the solution? Civil unrest, government overthrown by ballot box or force just puts another group in who then just carry on doing the same things and nothing significant changes, " welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss" is as true today as it ever was.

[Graham53]

[quote author=midden link=topic=21647.msg249616#msg249616 date=1484126673]
[quote author=slappy link=topic=21647.msg249525#msg249525 date=1484053375]
I can`t believe he gets paid £138,000 a year, socialism doesn`t half pay well!

Would you rather pay him £138,000  to rob the poor to feed the rich?
[/quote]


Average wage in UK is £26500, I personally don`t believe you can consider yourself a true socialist if you are paid more than 5 times the average wage.
And I know what other people are paid makes Corbyn look like a pauper and that there are way too many others earning minimum wage but what is the solution? Civil unrest, government overthrown by ballot box or force just puts another group in who then just carry on doing the same things and nothing significant changes, " welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss" is as true today as it ever was.
[/quote]
That is so true , that is why I think we need a re think / overhaul of our political system because the adversarial system that we have imho creates problems instead of solving them as it's the same story who ever is in government ... the basic principle is government says black opposition says white and never the twain shall meet and every issue that affects the taxpayer becomes a political football to be kicked from one side to the other in an attempt to win voters with no politicians being able to answer a question directly or speak freely for fear of upsetting a voter or group of voters ( I don't like farage but he didn't give a shit and in some ways that was refreshing ) I also think the not so subtle voting message from the people ,was we want change ,but how can you change the system when there's no decent alternative and so we ended up with trump and brexit.
I totally agree with the statements from Celticdog on HS2 ( and crossrail) and Scandinavia ,moreover on Corbyn he is too late for his time and he seems to forget that after Wilson a socialist led Labour Party couldn't get elected until the chuckle brothers tony and Gordon came along with their bastardisation mixture of a left wing /middle ground slightly right of centre "we are  labour but is ok to make money " politics and we all know that ended with the country financially fucked and his toniness rolling in wonga pretending to be the new messiah touring the Middle East trying to save the world.
Trouble is the current government aren't doing it either but call me Dave fucked em over beforehand so it's the poisoned chalice and Mays gulping from it not drinking from it ,but...... could have been worse it could've been Boris " picaninny" the buffoon Johnson at No 10
The trouble is the political system that needs change can only be changed by the politicians in the system that needs changing....... as was previously said welcome to the new boss .... same as the old boss ,with the add on same as the future boss.

[markie_wales]

Back to Southern - I have very mixed feelings about guard-less trains.

On one hand there are safe, guard-less trains all over Europe. I use them a lot.
On the other hand I was called to do first aid by the guard over the tannoy when he found someone collapsed and no one else had noticed.  If the guard hadn't been there, it may have ended very badly.

Who knows eh?

cheers

Markie

[BBROWN1664]

Markie - The guards will still be on the trains, just called train managers instead. The argument it just over who closes the fecking doors.

[Oldgit]

shut that door.

[lew600fazer]

Min wage for 25 and over £7.50 per hour from April 2017. So if you are LUCKY enough to work a 40 hour week that is £300 a week. State pension works out at £155.65 a week.

Hang on a minute Lew. If you're on £155.65 divided by 0 hours work, your hourly rate is ........ infinity. Just the kind of ridiculously high pay Corbyn wants to cap 

Ah!! now hang on a moment here I paid into that wee club for nearly 50 years so really only getting my a few quid back and the way the NHS is being run into the ground by our current government and previous knobs  that ran the mad house??Anyway I think it really is time that the Government passed a law that when you hit 70 you are sent for the big sleep, when I reach 69 this law should be reviewed with an extension clause put in for old bikers.  :rolleyes

[BBROWN1664]

:agree

Corbyn and other politicians should be forced to abide by a mandatory retirement age equal to the age when state pension is paid then only paid a state pension.

[markie_wales]

Markie - The guards will still be on the trains, just called train managers instead. The argument it just over who closes the fecking doors.

In that case stop fecking up peoples lives and get back to work!!

Cheers

Markie

[slappy]

:agree

Corbyn and other politicians should be forced to abide by a mandatory retirement age equal to the age when state pension is paid then only paid a state pension.

Too true, an MP who has 15 years service in will get a pension of between about £25000 and £27500 per annum at the moment from their pension scheme plus the state pension on top.

[mtread]

And they were awarded/awarded themselves a 11% pay rise last year, whilst deciding to limit the rest of the public sector at no more than 1%

[lew600fazer]

Okay time for the military coup, sadly my fighting days are over, but Mr Corbyn has a point about those who earn the big bucks. What really pisses me of is a CEO fucks up, he resigns as the buck stops with him. Honourable thing to do if you drop the ball on your watch.
The CEO of VW resigned and got €millions in pension rights + share options, the CEO of BP at the time when the oil spill occurred in the Gulf of Mexico got paid £millions and share options. His net worth is now estimated to be $20+million . All these CEO's never walk away empty handed. Look at the bankers, that robbing bastard  Sir Phillip Green robbed the pension funds what is he threatened with, the loss of his knight hood, me I would have his balls in a vice until the pension fund is back were it belongs.

[fazersharp]

Sir Phillip Green robbed the pension funds what is he threatened with, the loss of his knight hood, me I would have his balls in a vice until the pension fund is back were it belongs.

I think his balls are in the vice held there by Mrs Green because she coverts the title "lady" more than he the "sir" I think it is her that will pressure him to pay up