Earnings

[JoeRock]

We live in a capitalist society, what you earn is usually a proportion of how much money you can make someone else or a company.

Admittedly for people already in a career its difficult to move elsewhere, but if you're the type of person that prioritises a salary then you'll go to the type of career that pays well, and will work to get into it. Obviously doctors get paid well, but they have to spend 7 odd years training to get there. There won't be any nurses doing it for the money as if they put that as a priority they'll go elsewhere.


I'd personally agree with tying MP's wages to a national average - then keeping it in line with the average and inflation.


With regards to banking, yes, some people do get paid very, very well. But they also have to work their arses off to get there.
As some of you may know, I work in finance. At the moment I'm working in a brokerage and I earn a decent wage, but I'm looking to move to investment banking at one of the big international banks (hopefully Citibank).
I will be earning what would be classed as a very good wage there - starting salary for an analyst in front office is about 45k, you'll get a 4ish k sign on bonus, and then as a first year your bonus will likely be be about 25% of your salary, assuming your team makes money and the bank doesn't lose out massively (the actual investment banking division of most banks is usually a profit making section).

So, annual salary for a first year is about £60k (roughly). Fantastic sum of money for a starting salary, but lets break it down:
Firstly, if you've not got a degree, look elsewhere. I was lucky and paid £3.5kish for my undergraduate tuition fees for three years, plus I stayed on for a masters which cost another £9k. I've come out of uni with about £30k of debt (including living costs borrowed) for my degrees. Anyone following me now pays £9k a year in tuition fees, so would have about £45k in debt.


Then, after tax and NI based on a salary of £60k you actually bring home about £42k. Still a bloody good salary!
But the hours are grim. 100 hour weeks are normal, 70 hour weeks are considered good. This is not an exaggeration, most guys I know get one, maybe two weekend days off a month. Because of this, you have to work close to your office - all the analysts I know house-share, and in central London you're still looking at around £800-£1000 minimum for that, so now you're bringing home £32k. Still a good salary, until you work it out on an hourly wage.


So for an IB analyst, earning £60k, renting for about £10k a year, you'll be bringing home £32k. Based on a 90 hour average week, you're bringing home the grand total of £6.83 an hour.


Alternatively, earn the national average wage of £26,500, work a normal 40 hour week, and live somewhere for about £6k a year (terraced house in Kent for example), and you're earning £21k a year after tax, and you're earning £10.09 an hour.




Yes, the pay is good. Is it worth it? That's entirely for the person to decide.

[Andy FZS]

I'd never have guessed from your post that you work in finance lol.

[JoeRock]

I'd never have guessed from your post that you work in finance lol.

Was it the first sentence  :lol

[noggythenog]

Ha ha!...yeh fair play Joe for revealing that you're a banker......perhaps the admins can now make a special section for you, a few bars, big heavy doors, nice little toilet :b


I can see what you're saying & im pretty sure that you're being honest about it and it's good to hear that type of stuff.......i wouldnt go as far as to say "poor bankers".....but theres always a side that most of us dont hear about and it makes me a little smug because i earn a half decent wage yet i never went to Uni and i only have a 15 mile commute to work in area that affords me a decent if modest house for normal money......ok ive had to move about the country and ive had some pretty shit times.....im away from my family......more of a butterfly effect that just turned out ok rather than a planned approach but ill be stuck on this wage for a while and like you say you are talking about your starting wage so will hopefully fingers crossed progress quickly. It's still been your choice to go down that route though hasn't it ....i also have negative points...15 miles away is my max allowable distance from work i can live, i do unsociable hours and hardly get any weekends off, no bank holidays and no extra pay for working them......but the balance as a whole is very good...so i agree that i could move on again if the money was purely my drive...but personally im happy.....but i shouldnt criticise those who do want it......i suppose money doesnt always buy you happiness.....but having no money sure will get you misery...IMO....i've struck "my" happy medium.


& you're right.....we mostly all have some power to get a top earning job....but only if we have a little helping hand....we need some backing....it has now been proven that if you are born into a poor family then statistically the odds are poor of you ever getting there.....exceptions of course....sounds like you've done it yourself.....at a guess id say you're from an average working family......but not from a poor one....there is the least ammount of social mobility now that there has been in a long time in the UK.......the fact is that to make money you need money.....or to be provided that springboard from an early age by a decently well off family........the 2 things we use the most are banking and housing and if you are into any of those 2 then it's a win/win situation.............you also need to work your arse off as well..........but little Mavis the cleaner isnt gonna achieve that level of prosperty or social standing no matter how many hours she works.


We're still on a bit of a tangent here though arent we...end of the day banks are self serving and like you say they are in it for profit so why not.....if they are operating within the rules and under the normal culture for that proffession wth seeming impunity from any laws that they do break then happy days why shouldnt they..........it is indeed the politicians who run the country, have the power to change things........they are the ones that turn millions of honest people in their country into dishonest people......because they are leading by example as some of the most dishonest creatures on the planet.

[Raz Mcgruff]

I think it is fair


If we are willing watch these sports then we are already saying that it is fair.......the money they earn doesnt come outta thin air or outta public funds...it isnt like the Gov't is saying "right we cant give nurses a pay rise because that money is earmarked for Lewis Hamilton"......his wages come from all the lucrative advertising, branding and ticket sales etc etc......from the punters spending their low wages to watch it......if it isnt fair then nobody will get involved.....they make the money so why shouldnt they choose how much of it to give their employees......they could pay them less and save some in a bank.....but then they wont get the driver that the want......what they wont do is say oh lets give that extra we've made to the nurses.




Do i agree with important workers not being paid more or being offered shit pay rises......NO.....it is the pits.....but that is a different debate altogether...at the end of the day they have it sussed......pay them just enough that when they are all fresh faced and looking for a career the money seems attractive......& then once they've been in 5 years it soon changes and how dare they get paid such a pittance........but lets just say they lowered it too much and nurses were on 13k a year then they'd have no nurses......so they are just chipping away bit by bit trying to find how low they can go before the nurses leave........& then they'll spend millions on a big recruitment drive and the next time they'll say right we cant go quite that low again........but we can try :'(

I agree,
But I think you missed one important point.
The sports stars wages ultimately come from from those that buy Season Tickets Club Shirts by Sky Sport Subscriptions, buy Star endorsed products.

People will pay for these things,
But ask them for more council tax to fix roads, more income tax to pay Health workers etc
They aren't so willing to cough up for those things,
coz if they had to do that, they wouldn't be able to pay for their ,Season Tickets. Club Shirts. by Sky Sport subscriptions, Star endorsed products. :\

[VNA]

My only problem with Hamilton's wage is that he's not paying tax.
He'll tell you how proud he is to be British, but then leave you to pay the taxes.

our armed forces protect us/the country from a foreign threat

Well no not really.  The world is actually become a far far more dangerous place in the last ten or so years thanks to the actions of our armed forces.  There was no 'terrorist' activity in Iraq pre 2003.  People in the armed forces follow orders, simple, Tony Blair persuaded parliament, based on a pack of lies, to Invade Iraq. 


Look here's what gets me about pay.  I'll probably do my weekly supermarket shop tomorrow, the employees in the supermarket like a good few other million round the country will be on minimum wage or just above it.  You know what, in my mind somebody who works full time deserves a living wage, but as it is we have millions of people in full time work who claim benefits.  So in effect I pay my taxes so that these people can claim benefits.  Or if you like I, like a lot of you on this forum, subsidise the rich.  Big multi billion pound companies, many of them not paying their corporation tax, then don't bother to pay their hard working staff a decent wage and leave us dumb tax payers to pick up the tab!  I mean how focced up is that?

Did somebody mention living in a capitalist society?  What capitalism does is screw ordinary people, you could call it if you like socialism for the rich.

[lew600fazer]

Oh this will piss you all off then, I was a seafarer all my working life , marine engineer, since 1982 I legally never paid a penny in UK income tax. One of the reasons why, is the later years I was allowed 180 days a year in the UK. It was basically the UK's way of ensuring there was always a pool of skilled merchant seamen. It was a form of job protection for us as cheaper foreign crews were starting to creep in on British Flagged ships. At the same time though the British Ship owners made us redundant and then invited us to re-apply for our jobs again at greatly reduced terms and conditions, Pensions frozen etc!!
Why would the government want to ensure there was apool of British seafarers, well Mrs Thatcher found a use for me and a few others down in the Falklands and in the Gulf wars as well.
Sadly now the British Merchant Navy has all but gone, there are still lots of ships that fly the Red Duster, it has become a flag of convience.

[fazersharp]

what strikes me on reading this topic is the wide and varying lives and stories of everyone and yet we all have the one thing in common -- our bikes and despite our social and political views we can all agree on that (bikes)

[Dave48]

what strikes me on reading this topic is the wide and varying lives and stories of everyone and yet we all have the one thing in common -- our bikes and despite our social and political views we can all agree on that (bikes)

Yes, whenever I become amazed,overwhelmed,disgusted at the WORLD system-not simply the UK-because its world market forces at work affecting all our lives-
I can always ride my Japanese bike on French tyres burning fossil fuel from the Middle East in my German riding gear. Oh was forgetting there is a part thats British made-the exhaust system!
When our dear politicians & masters have completed their sale of our few remaining assets we can proudly take our place as a third world nation/theme park for foreign tourists and we can all sit in front of our TV/PCs watching "reality" & celebrity" shit watching the primadonnas strut their stuff. Me?-"f**k that! i will get out and ride as long as I am physically/mentally able  :lol

[Fazafou]

Did somebody mention living in a capitalist society?  What capitalism does is screw ordinary people, you could call it if you like socialism for the rich.

I would rather live in a capitalist society.
Capitalism works better than any other models as it feeds into human nature rather than go against it.

That said our current model of capitalism isn't working, and needs changing to prevent the poverty gap getting bigger. It is possible to have a fair capitalist system and allows people to try and better themselves.

[maddog04]

the politicians who run the country, have the power to change things

true but never underestimate people power, think of French farmers/Tienemen (?) square/scouse footy fans starting footy alliances with other fans to bring prices down
yes, people would rather pay for their season ticket than road tax etc but for some, that season ticket has been in the family for generations and we pay enough taxes as it is (saying that, I'd be willing to pay more council tax for more Police/Fire etc)
I won't bang on about Unions but simply put, we're stronger then, rather than fighting on our own

VNA you're right to a degree about the middle East but what do you propose, that we have no Armed Forces?
their 1st job is to go to war, no more no less. HMG use them to break strikes and a manner of all sorts these days but like you say.....you take orders or get out

[maddog04]

and its not the Armed Forces fault, its down to politicians

[Raz Mcgruff]

[quote author=VNA link=topic=15373.msg175059#msg175059 date=1416957047]
Did somebody mention living in a capitalist society?  What capitalism does is screw ordinary people, you could call it if you like socialism for the rich.

I would rather live in a capitalist society.
Capitalism works better than any other models as it feeds into human nature rather than go against it.

That said our current model of capitalism isn't working, and needs changing to prevent the poverty gap getting bigger. It is possible to have a fair capitalist system and allows people to try and better themselves.
[/quote]

if only we lived in a capitalist society.

Rail Subsidies, Oil company subsidies etc
Bailing out companies that fuck up (banks)
Subsidising low pay with government benefits,

We don't live in any thing near a capitalist society.

[VNA]

if only we lived in a capitalist society.

You better believe it.

Rail Subsidies, Oil company subsidies etc

That's right private companies, some of them that can't even turn a profit get subsidised by us, they then pay their useless board millions and in turn pay out further millions to their rich shareholders.  Your taxes straight to the rich..

Bailing out companies that fuck up (banks)

Yup instead of the banks, their bosses and rich shareholders taking the hit, they are bailed out by you and then you get punished with austerity.  Focced over, then focced over again.

Subsidising low pay with government benefits,

As I already said, we subsidise the multi billion pound companies (who don't pay their taxes) their rich bosses and shareholders by paying the money to their hard working employees that they should be.

Yes perhaps you are correct Raz, what we have is socialism, but socialism for the rich.

[Raz Mcgruff]

I actually read Wealth of Nations not long after the recession hit.

I think Adam Smiths at about 10000 RPM now  :rollin

[nick crisp]

what we have is socialism, but socialism for the rich.

I think what we have is a democratic* dictatorship,** one step removed from a plutocracy.***

*because you can vote.
**because once elected, they all do what the foc they want and you have to just bend over and take it.
***one step because the politicians are a front, or buffer for the rich, for whom the politicians have to bend over and take it.

Any advances on that?

[VNA]

*because you can vote.
**because once elected, they all do what the foc they want and you have to just bend over and take it.
***one step because the politicians are a front, or buffer for the rich, for whom the politicians have to bend over and take it.

But voting is just one aspect of politics.  And if that is folks only input, well then don't be surprised when a good few of em just do as they please.  But no you don't have to just bend over and take it.

Yes the multi-national private corporations are in danger of becoming more powerful than governments, and of course those ministers that we don't hold to account are busy cosying up to those big corporations so they can get their lucrative consultation work once they are finished with parliament. 

But like I say, the people will get the government they deserve. 

[BIG MAC]

To be fair, I don't care what Lewis earns, someone is prepared to pay it and if it wasn't him it would be someone else possibly a German. What I do advocate is that anyone who retains a British passport but lives elsewhere as a tax dodge (not the old age retired) should be required to renew their passport at a cost of 5% of their global earnings per annum.
If they want to come back here to use a health service or want  to work in the Emirates while building a property portfolio here and lean on our services ...pay for it

[VNA]

VNA you're right to a degree about the middle East but what do you propose, that we have no Armed Forces?
their 1st job is to go to war, no more no less. HMG use them to break strikes and a manner of all sorts these days but like you say.....you take orders or get out

I am not aware of the army being used to break strikes.  I don't think it's been tried since the Glasgow rent strikes almost 100 years ago (am I about to be corrected? :\ ).

Where do you start with our attitude towards the Middle East?  Well over 100 years of imperial abuse and wholesale theft of assets.  In recent years the unjustified and disastrous invasion of Afghanistan which after over ten years of occupation has achieved absolutely foc all.  And this in a country that was sacrificed by the USA with help from the UK to give the USSR it's Vietnam.

Regime change in Iraq.  The intelligence services knew there was no WMD, and frankly the claim that there was WMD left anybody with half a clue wondering what the heck the USA and UK had just spend ten years bombing.
We knew it had all already been destroyed.  Not to mention you might wonder who sold it to them in the first place and at times encouraged them to use it.  (that would be us again!)

So, yes, it was purely regime change.  Bush was getting irritated that their puppet Saddam was at times becoming difficult.  And of course at that time there were no terrorists in Iraq.  Regime change and an economic fantasy that we would buy their cheap oil and they would use the money to get us to rebuild and run Iraq. 

Then fast forward a bit.  Syria.  Putin backed Assad warning us of the dangers of Mujahedeen Extremists, so Russia armed Assad, we armed the Mujahedeen and the civilians paid the price, as of course they do in all wars. 

You know how about, after completely foccing up the whole region for well over 100 years, we perhaps face up to our immoral illegal and racist foreign policies and maybe try and draw up some policies that might nip ISIS in the bud and promote other policies that might just improve the lives of people in the region.

But then of course we are stuck in a economic military complex, we are addicted to selling arms to rouge states that promote war and extreme ideology  across the Middle East. 

[locksmith]

Have you seen the ticket prices these days for F1, Premier League football etc?

Yes, but do not tell the wife :lol