HID Headlights

[PaulSmith]

Its OK, I was able to find the correct position for my self. Google H4 specifications and look at some of the figures that come up. The key figure is 28.5 mm from the base and it seems that my bulb is OK. Phew, what a relief.

[smg id=2650 type=preview align=center caption="H$-3 HID bulb"]

[mark g]

Bought a kit off ebay and fitted them today, just finished so have yet to use them in anger but when I do I'll let you know my thoughts, there certainly bright lol. If there shit I'll go down the projector route

[b1k3rdude]

I mean, who would have thought that companies like Phillips and Osram wouldn't know how to make a H4 bulb properly?

They don't make H4 kits, genuine Phillips/Osram HID kits are for projection headlights only. Any HID H4 kit that says its a phillips is only referring to the glass bulb, and that assuming its even a genuine philllips/osram in the first place.

Its OK, I was able to find the correct position for my self. Google H4 specifications and look at some of the figures that come up. The key figure is 28.5 mm from the base and it seems that my bulb is OK. Phew, what a relief.

Your being a tad simplistic, if it was that simple then we would all be running them.

So lets take at the HID bulb in the picture, which is just like all telescopic H4 HID kits available -

• did you measure to the center of the arc, from the base of the H4 plate? as most will be out a few mm, but can the same be said for Hi beam?
  
• is there lateral free-play in yours (as in vertical movement where gravity will be pulling the bulb mech downward, mean it out of alignment). And because the bulb is flapping about while the bike is moving you get additional dazzling of other road users.
  
• all telescopic hid kits that I have seen have two shrouds/baffles, an inner and outer. The position of the inner is almost always inaccurate and either allows some spillage on dip and/or obscured on Hi.
  
• The hole in the outer baffle (again on all kits I have seen) dosent allow enough light out so you don't get all the light being exposed to the reflector.
  
• And the solenoid mech used in all kits I have seen is very cheap and chearfull to the point that when Hi beam has been on for a while the whole back of the bulb overheats, because its essentially just shy of being a short circuit.
  
• A lot of the telescopic kits are so poorly manufactured that the bulbs dosent stayed screwed into the baseplate assy and/or arent sealed so water/condensation can ingress into the headlight unit.
  
• And keeping on the subject of cheap and cheerful, most of these kits don't last anywhere near as long as stated, either the bloody bulbs or the ballasts go.
  

There are direct LED replacement H4 bulbs out there, but this example is tad too pricey - http://www.horizonleds.co.uk/cree-led-he...dlight-kit

[PaulSmith]

Your being a tad simplistic, if it was that simple then we would all be running them.

It is that simple! And now that bloody things are even cheaper then regular bulbs you have no excuse NOT to use them!
The fact remains they provide three times more light for one third less power. They are, IMHO, the single best safety improvement I have ever made to any bike. That is why I am trying to encourage more people to run them and decide for themselves. If they don't like them, they will be out of pocket less then a tenner!

So lets take at the HID bulb in the picture, which is just like all telescopic H4 HID kits available - [Which is why I used it.]

• did you measure to the center of the arc, from the base of the H4 plate? as most will be out a few mm, but can the same be said for Hi beam?
  
• is there lateral free-play in yours (as in vertical movement where gravity will be pulling the bulb mech downward, mean it out of alignment). And because the bulb is flapping about while the bike is moving you get additional dazzling of other road users.
  
• all telescopic hid kits that I have seen have two shrouds/baffles, an inner and outer. The position of the inner is almost always inaccurate and either allows some spillage on dip and/or obscured on Hi.
  
• The hole in the outer baffle (again on all kits I have seen) dosent allow enough light out so you don't get all the light being exposed to the reflector. [Do you get enough? I do]
  
• And the solenoid mech used in all kits I have seen is very cheap and chearfull to the point that when Hi beam has been on for a while the whole back of the bulb overheats, because its essentially just shy of being a short circuit.
  
• A lot of the telescopic kits are so poorly manufactured that the bulbs dosent stayed screwed into the baseplate assy and/or arent sealed so water/condensation can ingress into the headlight unit.
  
• And keeping on the subject of cheap and cheerful, most of these kits don't last anywhere near as long as stated, either the bloody bulbs or the ballasts go.
  

I went to the hassle of finding the H4 bulb specification, finding a H4-3 HID bulb, finding a vernier caliper and adjusting it correctly, taking the photo and posting it and you couldn't be even be bothered to look at it?  What is your problem? Tell you what, I am bored now, here is the spec for a H4. When you post evidence of a problem, I will listen to you, but until then...

[smg id=2651 type=preview align=center caption="H4 bulb spec"]

There are direct LED replacement H4 bulbs out there, but this example is tad too pricey - http://www.horizonleds.co.uk/cree-led-he...dlight-kit

So bloody what? LED lamps are area source not point source so can not be used effectively in point source based reflectors to produce directed light. Do you know nothing?   

[mark g]

Must admit every LED based headlight conversion I saw on YouTube weren't as good as HID lights, my mate runs buld only conversion on his blade and he says it works fine so I'll give mine a go tonight if it's not pissing down. Like I said before if there shit I'll just buy the projector kit. :lol

[b1k3rdude]

What is your problem? Tell you what, I am bored now,

I don't have a problem, I am simply stating facts. If people can choose to ignore them, they do so to thier detriment.

[PaulSmith]

[quote author=PaulSmith link=topic=17770.msg206302#msg206302 date=1438855050] What is your problem? Tell you what, I am bored now,

I don't have a problem, I am simply stating facts. If people can choose to ignore them, they do so to thier detriment.
[/quote]
The technical term for what you have been doing is "Expressing opinions" which of course, you are perfectly entitled to do. The difference between opinions and facts is that opinions do not require evidence where as facts do. And since you have utterly failed to provide any hint or suggestion of evidence, and instead provided a continual stream of unspecified carping and knocking of something that clearly provides a very real safety benefit to bikers, you will have to forgive me when I disagree with you and say; yes, you do have a problem.

If any of your opinions held merit, and you have expressed a lot of them, from the qualities of the reflectors to imperfections in the position of the low beam shield, then it should have been a simple thing to find supporting evidence for at least one of them. But no. Not even a single link to a crackpot or conspiracy web site and this despite all your authoritative sounding statements suggesting you're expertise. All you have done is bemoaned and denigrated and come up with one weak excuse after another for why it shouldn't work. The fact that I and many others have been successfully using HID replacements for H4 bulbs for  years simply hasn't entered your consciousness. Why is that? What gives you the right to assume that I drive around being flashed by one road user after another and am not aware of it? Or are you assuming that I am lying about the use and benefits of HIDs and want to trick other people into using them for some nefarious reasons? So I will ask you again, what is your problem. Please take your time to think about your answer because your behaviour is clearly not normal.

 

[b1k3rdude]

Everything I have said is fact based on common sense and first hand experience, all people have to do is look at one of these telescopic HID bulb's and they will see what I am referring to - period. Just because lots of people have been using HID kits for years does not mean that should be, and your use of the word successful is extremely contextual.

Can we just agree to disagree at this point,  all I set out to do was make the OP aware of all the issue's with HIDs, not derail the thread with a pointless ping-pong.

[AyJay]

i'm very drunk, so I might regret this post but.... I'm a fan of popcorn and a good argument. Understanding comes out of many arguments.

PaulSmith, please rebut every single one of the points that BikerDude has made. Just because you have measured 28.5mm from base does not answer the point about lateral free play, for instance. And what about overheating and longevity? I see guys with HIDs from time to time and many of them are clearly badly set up, uselessly and pointlessly dazzling other road users. In fact, I'd say the majority of bulb replacements are badly set up. The all in one separate spotlight kits complete seem ok though, probably because they are designed as a unit to work with HIDs. I seriously doubt there's much design gone into a 20 quid HID replacement that can be retrofitted to any number of bikes.

I am considering a kit and would like to know more, and I'd really like to know why you have to start slagging people with 'your behaviour is clearly not normal' type comments. That's just a fucking stupid slag off rather than a point or counterpoint and it undermines any argument you make. Someone disagrees with you and you call their sanity into question.. really.. ? Answer the questions.....

• did you measure to the center of the arc, from the base of the H4 plate? as most will be out a few mm, but can the same be said for Hi beam?
  
• is there lateral free-play in yours (as in vertical movement where gravity will be pulling the bulb mech downward, mean it out of alignment). And because the bulb is flapping about while the bike is moving you get additional dazzling of other road users.
  
• all telescopic hid kits that I have seen have two shrouds/baffles, an inner and outer. The position of the inner is almost always inaccurate and either allows some spillage on dip and/or obscured on Hi.
  
• The hole in the outer baffle (again on all kits I have seen) dosent allow enough light out so you don't get all the light being exposed to the reflector.
  
• And the solenoid mech used in all kits I have seen is very cheap and chearfull to the point that when Hi beam has been on for a while the whole back of the bulb overheats, because its essentially just shy of being a short circuit.
  
• A lot of the telescopic kits are so poorly manufactured that the bulbs dosent stayed screwed into the baseplate assy and/or arent sealed so water/condensation can ingress into the headlight unit.
  
• And keeping on the subject of cheap and cheerful, most of these kits don't last anywhere near as long as stated, either the bloody bulbs or the ballasts go.
  

[mark g]

Fuck me this is getting a bit deep  :lol  I only wanted some advice on HID's lol. For what it's worth my take on it is thus----If you want to do it properly so to speak buy a projector kit, the only issue I've got is the £150 odd outlay, for the sake of a £30 odd kit off ebay I feel it's worth a punt. If it's shit I'll sell it for a tenner and buy a projector kit, I think the main issue is folk don't know how to adjust the beam spread and they ride around with there lights pointing skyward.....not an issue with the std bubs cause there shit but it does become and issue with HID's. Hopefully I'll get out with mine tonight

[mark g]

ummm, spent an hour out last night, the lights are loads better than the std set-up but the beam is maybe not as good as I would like so I'll use them for the remainder of the summer and get myself some projectors in the winter 

[Fazerider]

As a shift worker, very nearly half my riding is done at night and I can tell you I'm sick to death of being dazzled by other road users. I can rely on having my view of the road seriously impaired at least half a dozen times a night.
Some of the time it's down to the oncoming bell-end having badly adjusted lights, but the rest of the occurrences are due to the layout of the road: when your carriageway is lower, when they hit bumps or a rise in the road, or you've a right hand bend ahead, getting a face-full of below-the-cutoff dipped beam is inevitable.
It was bad enough in the days when quartz halogen was the ultimate source of light, now HIDs produce 3 times the brightness, and are three times as bad for dazzle.
Cars armed with the things are bad enough, bikes are totally unsuitable for them. Aside from the shorter wheelbase meaning that the beam pitches up and down far more than a car does over bumps there is the issue of cornering… just how do you fans of these things stop the dip beam from reaching the treetops when negotiating a left-hander?

[mark g]

Your obviously not too fussy about seeing where your going then at night if your happy with the std set-up??, I must admit for a bike with twin headlights the yam does suck big time at night.

[Fazerider]

Your obviously not too fussy about seeing where your going then at night if your happy with the std set-up??, I must admit for a bike with twin headlights the yam does suck big time at night.

I'm not happy with the standard setup, nor is that what I'm using.
I just don't have HIDs because they cause excessive dazzle.

[mark g]

Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned HID is the way forward, I don't like the look of spot/daytime running lights even though probably work fine.


Each to their own I guess but I'll be getting a projector set in the near future  :lol

[b1k3rdude]

Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned HID is the way forward, I don't like the look of spot/daytime running lights even though probably work fine.

LED headlights are being installed in all the latest bikes, they use far less power and are just as bright as HID. Hopefully there are ot will be after market kits that riders can fit to reflector based headlgihts without or less of the failings of HID.

[PaulSmith]

i'm very drunk, so I might regret this post but.... I'm a fan of popcorn and a good argument. Understanding comes out of many arguments.

PaulSmith, please rebut every single one of the points that BikerDude has made.
...

Hi AyJay, hope it was a good party. If you read the posts above you will see that I have rebutted, with evidence, almost every one of BikerDudes objections, but BikerDude has not one single piece of evidence supporting his claims. Not one!

For example, in response to his claims about 'the arcs in all HID bulbs being in the wrong place' I posted a photo of a measurement of a bulb. His response was to ask if I measured from the centre of the arc, a question you have repeated. His 'knowledgeable' posts would suggest that he had some familiarity with the specifications for a H4 bulb so this would seem like a reasonable question. I then posted the H4 specification and there is no measurement to the centre of the arc. The measurement is to the break point where the high beam ends and the low beam starts, in other words, exactly what was shown in the photo I posted to rebut his daft comment about them all being wrong.

Maybe you think I was slagging him off about his behaviour, but I wasn't. He has has repeatedly suggested that he has experience and expertise in this area and has repeatedly demonstrated his lack of knowledge. Even among natural bullshitters that is not normal behaviour. He has repeatedly come up with wilder and wilder reasons why aftermarket HID bulbs could not possibly work. Despite the evidence that they do. That is not normal, and it is borderline unhealthy. 

But just to satisfy your curiosity...

• did you measure to the center of the arc, from the base of the H4 plate? as most will be out a few mm, but can the same be said for Hi beam?
  
• A. No. The measurement is of the breakpoint between low and high beam. The arc was measured to be in the correct position relative to the break point in both low and high beam modes. 
  
  
• is there lateral free-play in yours (as in vertical movement where gravity will be pulling the bulb mech downward, mean it out of alignment). And because the bulb is flapping about while the bike is moving you get additional dazzling of other road users.
  
• A. Of course there is lateral movement because there is movement. But the 'flapping' referred to is probably twice what you would get from the coiled filament of a standard bulb and in no way could it be enough to affect the alignment.
  
  
• all telescopic hid kits that I have seen have two shrouds/baffles, an inner and outer. The position of the inner is almost always inaccurate and either allows some spillage on dip and/or obscured on Hi.
  
• A. What can I say. The bulbs I photographed had their shrouds in the correct place. Can you show an example of a faulty shroud?
  
  
• The hole in the outer baffle (again on all kits I have seen) dosent allow enough light out so you don't get all the light being exposed to the reflector.
  
• A. I find this surprising given that the arc is producing three times the lumens of a traditional bulb. Of course a larger hole would increase the light exposed but it would also increase the risk of light going where you don't want it and causing dazzle. 
  
  
• And the solenoid mech used in all kits I have seen is very cheap and chearfull to the point that when Hi beam has been on for a while the whole back of the bulb overheats, because its essentially just shy of being a short circuit.
  
• A. have you any evidence of heat damage to the back of the bulbs? I haven't seen any. Given that the solinoid is moving the bulb holder, which is designed to carry a plasma arc, I would not have expected the solinoid temperature to be an issue, but if you have evidence, I am open to correction. 
  
  
• A lot of the telescopic kits are so poorly manufactured that the bulbs dosent stayed screwed into the baseplate assy and/or arent sealed so water/condensation can ingress into the headlight unit.
  
• A. Are we talking about the same bulbs? I haven't encountered any that were 'screwed in'. Water sealing of the headlamp unit is performed by the rubber boot not be the bulb/baseplate assembly. The same boot that is used with standard bulbs. 
  
  
• And keeping on the subject of cheap and cheerful, most of these kits don't last anywhere near as long as stated, either the bloody bulbs or the ballasts go.
  
• A. You are right. I rarely get the promised three to ten times the life of a standard bulb and usually have to settle for two to five times the life.
  
  

[PaulSmith]

[quote author=mark g link=topic=17770.msg206723#msg206723 date=1439148284]Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned HID is the way forward, I don't like the look of spot/daytime running lights even though probably work fine.

LED headlights are being installed in all the latest bikes, they use far less power and are just as bright as HID. Hopefully there are ot will be after market kits that riders can fit to reflector based headlgihts without or less of the failings of HID.
[/quote]
! No longer available
Some interesting information the use of LEDs in a reflector designed for point source here.  (If you are easily bored, skip the first 22 minutes)

[mark g]

I watched this guy recently, this was one of the reasons I didn't go down the LED route, point to note though this dude wasn't happy with HID either, check out his other vid.

[AyJay]

Thanks for the info! I'm still kind of baffled as to why so many bikes with these are dazzleships though.