(11-08-24, 11:45 AM)unfazed Wrote: It improves throttle response as it modifies the timing to suit the throttle opening, also stops pinging (poor combustion) when opening the throttle quickly. Depending on how it fails internally it can cause surging and /or extra vibration.
Hi ,not noticed any changes in performance but I don't ride everyday ,still waiting for a cooler day to have a test ride
Coeurdelion
When mine failed on the 600 the only thing I noticed that the throttle response was a bit off, but I thought it was down to poor fuel as It did not throw up any code.
It made no difference to the power, but the throttle did not feel right .
When I checked during a service it would not change from 10000 on the clock which ever way it was turned.
The new one bought, brought back the throttle feel again, but then I was riding every day which was probably why I noticed the change.
When it failed on the 1000 it was making my fingeres number in traffic especially around 3 to 4000 rev and was surging on an off the throttle, but fine up over 5000revs no difference to the power, again not code on the Tacho
The new one has it back to normal. The new Suzuki one was €97 and the Yamaha on was €330. Exactly the same fittings and resistance measurements, but it need two pins to be swapped around as it works on the left side of the carb whereas the Yamaha one is on the right side. The work in different directions
Hi Unfazed,had a quick look at my tps yesterday, there's no reading from any of the 3 pins using a multimeter no matter what combination I try so I'd say it's died, when you say you had to swap two pins over on the suzuki tps which two?I noticed that the new tps (not mikuni) that I recently bought that didnt work(had a standing reading of 5.9 between the middle and either end pin but didnt alter when you turned the center )was also anti clockwise instead of clockwise.
Coeurdelion
(11-08-24, 11:45 AM)unfazed Wrote: It improves throttle response as it modifies the timing to suit the throttle opening, also stops pinging (poor combustion) when opening the throttle quickly. Depending on how it fails internally it can cause surging and /or extra vibration.
Hi ,not noticed any changes in performance but I don't ride everyday ,still waiting for a cooler day to have a test ride
Coeurdelion
When mine failed on the 600 the only thing I noticed that the throttle response was a bit off, but I thought it was down to poor fuel as It did not throw up any code.
It made no difference to the power, but the throttle did not feel right .
When I checked during a service it would not change from 10000 on the clock which ever way it was turned.
The new one bought, brought back the throttle feel again, but then I was riding every day which was probably why I noticed the change.
When it failed on the 1000 it was making my fingeres number in traffic especially around 3 to 4000 rev and was surging on an off the throttle, but fine up over 5000revs no difference to the power, again not code on the Tacho
The new one has it back to normal. The new Suzuki one was €97 and the Yamaha on was €330. Exactly the same fittings and resistance measurements, but it need two pins to be swapped around as it works on the left side of the carb whereas the Yamaha one is on the right side. The work in different directions
Hi Unfazed,had a quick look at my tps yesterday, there's no reading from any of the 3 pins using a multimeter no matter what combination I try so I'd say it's died, when you say you had to swap two pins over on the suzuki tps which two?I noticed that the new tps (not mikuni) that I recently bought that didnt work(had a standing reading of 5.9 between the middle and either end pin but didnt alter when you turned the center )was also anti clockwise instead of clockwise.
Coeurdelion
That sounds like there is no connection internally, where did you get it?
There are a few very cheap chineses made look alikes, but they either do not work or fail sooner than the proper ones due to poor or no quality control
It is usually from the lack of quality control.
It was the 1000 Fazer one that I changed, to get it to work on the right side, unfortunately the 600 one is spring loaded and cannot be changed, you have to buy the one for the right side of the carburettors/throttle bodies.
For example the fuel injected XJR1300 has exactly the same TPS as the 600 Fazer but it is spring loaded in the opposite direction as it fits on the right hand side of the throttle body
(11-08-24, 11:45 AM)unfazed Wrote: It improves throttle response as it modifies the timing to suit the throttle opening, also stops pinging (poor combustion) when opening the throttle quickly. Depending on how it fails internally it can cause surging and /or extra vibration.
Hi ,not noticed any changes in performance but I don't ride everyday ,still waiting for a cooler day to have a test ride
Coeurdelion
When mine failed on the 600 the only thing I noticed that the throttle response was a bit off, but I thought it was down to poor fuel as It did not throw up any code.
It made no difference to the power, but the throttle did not feel right .
When I checked during a service it would not change from 10000 on the clock which ever way it was turned.
The new one bought, brought back the throttle feel again, but then I was riding every day which was probably why I noticed the change.
When it failed on the 1000 it was making my fingeres number in traffic especially around 3 to 4000 rev and was surging on an off the throttle, but fine up over 5000revs no difference to the power, again not code on the Tacho
The new one has it back to normal. The new Suzuki one was €97 and the Yamaha on was €330. Exactly the same fittings and resistance measurements, but it need two pins to be swapped around as it works on the left side of the carb whereas the Yamaha one is on the right side. The work in different directions
Hi Unfazed thanks for the reply, the one I bought was from leboncoin ,stated new unused but he also had one for a 1300 suzuki so maybe he tried with a cheap one ,found it to be duff and tried selling it on,luckily I got my money back,I'll buy a fazer one then I know it's going to work without any problems, I've seen them range from €15 up to €230 from cheap Chinese to mikuni,in your opinion should I bite the bullet and go mikuni or buy a mid range one from a reputable dealer like tourmax,
Coeurdelion
Hi and thanks to everyone for the information on the TPS problem,before I order a new mikuni(tourmax) one €129 just a quick question to reasure me parting with my money,I tested all three pins on the existing TPS in all configurations and got no readings whatsoever, the needle never moved ,I'm no electrical expert but I'd say that was non functioning
Coeurdelion
(12-08-24, 05:36 PM)BBROWN1664 Wrote: agreed. You should get reading. Section 6 Page 10 of the FZS600 Service Manual in the download section gives you the exact readings.
Cheers id be happy if i had some readings to compare ,I've got a Haynes manual which covers the thundercat yzf600r but when it comes to TPS it just says see a professional!!!
Coeurdelion
(12-08-24, 03:54 PM)coeurdelion Wrote: Hi and thanks to everyone for the information on the TPS problem,before I order a new mikuni(tourmax) one €129 just a quick question to reasure me parting with my money,I tested all three pins on the existing TPS in all configurations and got no readings whatsoever, the needle never moved ,I'm no electrical expert but I'd say that was non functioning
Coeurdelion
Yes, you should have got readings on any combination of wires Yellow is the wiper that moves across the carbon track. Black and Blue are the attcahed to the ends of the carbon track.
A meter across the two outer pins which correspond to Black and Blue should have given maximum reading across the carbon track of 4 or 5Kohms. If you got no readings at all then there is definitely a break in the internal connections. This is why the 3000 code came up on the tacho.
I have used Tourmax and they are good quality. My present spare is a Suzuki one and the one on my sons bike is a the Tourmax one and it is on his bike with over 10,000 miles
(12-08-24, 03:54 PM)coeurdelion Wrote: Hi and thanks to everyone for the information on the TPS problem,before I order a new mikuni(tourmax) one €129 just a quick question to reasure me parting with my money,I tested all three pins on the existing TPS in all configurations and got no readings whatsoever, the needle never moved ,I'm no electrical expert but I'd say that was non functioning
Coeurdelion
Yes, you should have got readings on any combination of wires Yellow is the wiper that moves across the carbon track. Black and Blue are the attcahed to the ends of the carbon track.
A meter across the two outer pins which correspond to Black and Blue should have given maximum reading across the carbon track of 4 or 5Kohms. If you got no readings at all then there is definitely a break in the internal connections. This is why the 3000 code came up on the tacho.
I have used Tourmax and they are good quality. My present spare is a Suzuki one and the one on my sons bike is a the Tourmax one and it is on his bike with over 10,000 miles
Thanks for the reply unfazed, it'll be a relief to see the needle adjusted to 5000 when the new TPS is fitted
It's a minefield when it gets to the electrikery side of any problems and over here in france they just keep buying new parts until it's fixed so you basically give them your pin number for your cash card !!!
Coeurdelion
Remember, the TPS is a datum and shouldn't be moved before checking the settings of No4 carb.
You need to check butterfly operation, throttle cable and linkage freedom/movement, air screw condition/setting, idle speed and that's pulling the correct level of Hg (230 - 250) at the correct idle. If it's not there's a problem that you need to sort out on the carb.
No 4 carb is non adjustable when carrying out balancing it's the datum. The biggest mistake and what leads to many TPS failures is owners and stealers adjusting them before checking the settings above. In theory unless strip/take the carbs the TPS should rarely if ever need adjusting, that's why from the factory the screws are covered in paint.
My own Fazer 99, still has it's OE TPS, all those I work on for owners still have theirs. All of the TPS's I've had to adjust over the years are because one of the above mentioned have moved it, due to incorrect balancing, sticking throttles and/or people messing about with them.
I've only replaced 3 OE TPS's due to failure and these where 80k plus mileage, obviously this is likely to increase as bikes age, some Fazer are knocking on 27yrs old now.
14-08-24, 02:12 PM (This post was last modified: 14-08-24, 02:47 PM by coeurdelion.
Edit Reason: Spell check
)
(14-08-24, 12:21 PM)Gnasher Wrote: Remember, the TPS is a datum and shouldn't be moved before checking the settings of No4 carb.
You need to check butterfly operation, throttle cable and linkage freedom/movement, air screw condition/setting, idle speed and that's pulling the correct level of Hg (230 - 250) at the correct idle. If it's not there's a problem that you need to sort out on the carb.
No 4 carb is non adjustable when carrying out balancing it's the datum. The biggest mistake and what leads to many TPS failures is owners and stealers adjusting them before checking the settings above. In theory unless strip/take the carbs the TPS should rarely if ever need adjusting, that's why from the factory the screws are covered in paint.
My own Fazer 99, still has it's OE TPS, all those I work on for owners still have theirs. All of the TPS's I've had to adjust over the years are because one of the above mentioned have moved it, due to incorrect balancing, sticking throttles and/or people messing about with them.
I've only replaced 3 OE TPS's due to failure and these where 80k plus mileage, obviously this is likely to increase as bikes age, some Fazer are knocking on 27yrs old now.
Hi Gnasher,thanks for the indepth reply ,my TPS problem was down to the fact that there was no readings at all ,this gave a reading of 10000 that was not adjustable using the turning method,I've just received and tested the new mikuni one with a multi meter and have a standing reading of just under 5,this is when using the pins at either end and if you use one end and the middle pin the reading increases as it should,I took a photo of the old TPS position before removing and put the new one in the exact same place and got the wonderful 5000,that'll do for me .
Coeurdelion
(09-08-24, 07:41 AM)coeurdelion Wrote: Morning,hope everyone is well,I got my 2000 yamaha fazer 600 very wet whilst out and the day after whilst riding I noticed the revs dropping from 5000 to 0 then back up to 5000,i replaced a dodgy double headlight conversion wiring with a proper plug thinking thatveas the cause but no luck,I did the unplug and plug in tps technique and it went to 10000 and will not adjust down to the usual 5000,the bike is fine on tickover and runs normal with no surging or flat spots,with the ignition on and the tps unplugged the revs jump 0 to 3000 then 0 and 3000 repeating ,I bought a new tps and it had the bike still had same symptoms ,I bench tested the new tps with a meter ,no reading between the outside two pins but either one of the outside and the center pin I got a reading of 5.9 but this didn't alter when I turned the tps as if it was the throttle twisting ,my old tps had no readings at all,basically was the new tps dodgy or am I looking at another problem that isn't tps related?,apologies for the long thread
Cheers coeurdelion
Hi ,thanks to all the members for their help and advice quick update,received the new mikuni TPS for the fazer 600 year 2000,tested it with multimeter before fitting ,got a standing reading of 5ohms using the top and bottom pins ,when using the end pin and the center pin it gave a reading which increased when the center was turned ,like the butterfly flap opening,fitted and tested and got the 5000 OK, the new part has A3 on it whereas the original had A1 ,it came from a reputable motorcycle shop here in france not a dodgy chinese knock off ,should have just paid the €129 the day it packed in and saved the stress and constant testing,haven't had a test run yet so will post after,one thing I did notice is that it came with a small rubber ring ,impossible to fit with this on,my original didn't have one so I've fitted the new one without,maybe it's for a newer model as mine is the first edition FZS600 I don't know ,maybe someone can shed a bit of light on this
One thing I did notice is that the new TPS when in the setting mode (unplugged then plugged in )creates a slight humm whereas the original had no sound whatsoever, might be helpful to someone testing their's ?
Coeurdelion
14-08-24, 02:45 PM (This post was last modified: 14-08-24, 02:56 PM by unfazed.)
(14-08-24, 12:21 PM)Gnasher Wrote: Remember, the TPS is a datum and shouldn't be moved before checking the settings of No4 carb.
You need to check butterfly operation, throttle cable and linkage freedom/movement, air screw condition/setting, idle speed and that's pulling the correct level of Hg (230 - 250) at the correct idle. If it's not there's a problem that you need to sort out on the carb.
No 4 carb is non adjustable when carrying out balancing it's the datum. The biggest mistake and what leads to many TPS failures is owners and stealers adjusting them before checking the settings above. In theory unless strip/take the carbs the TPS should rarely if ever need adjusting, that's why from the factory the screws are covered in paint.
My own Fazer 99, still has it's OE TPS, all those I work on for owners still have theirs. All of the TPS's I've had to adjust over the years are because one of the above mentioned have moved it, due to incorrect balancing, sticking throttles and/or people messing about with them.
I've only replaced 3 OE TPS's due to failure and these where 80k plus mileage, obviously this is likely to increase as bikes age, some Fazer are knocking on 27yrs old now.
Not 100% correct, I bought my 600 new and the TPS failed at 35000n miles and it had never been touched. It now has 102000miles and still on the TPS I replaced at 35000miles
The one on my Fzs1000 failed recently at 68000km and it had not been touched either.
Adjusting them does not cause the failure, as you are only moving the start point of the TPS.
Yes they should be checked after the carburettors are synched and idle speed set.
They are mechanical and anything mechanical is prone to wear regardless.
I know of bikes with over 80000 miles and still have the original TPS, it is like most things mechanical some wear quicker than others.
All all Fazer carburettor are set to number 3 which is the reference/base carburettor as it has the throttle cables attached which is why you should really set 3 & 4 first then 1 & 2 and finally the screw between 1 & 2 to £ & 4is set.
Some came from the factory set incorrectly. Many 05 model FZS1000 had the Carbs and the TPS set incorrectly from the factory.
Wear and tear on the engine like Valves going out of adjustments effect the carb synch and when synchronised it can throw off the idles setting.
Adjusting the idle setting can throw off the TPs setting which is why it should be checked everytime you resynch the carbs
On my recent failure on the FZS1000 it tested perfectly on the tacho 0, 5000 and 10000 revs, but knowing I had a surging and vibration issue, I tested it with a meter and it was going open circuit around 2.7Kohm about half way through its rotation. No reason for it to fail at that point, but it did. I have a video of the test in MP$ format, but for some reason it will not allow me upload it.
(14-08-24, 02:12 PM)coeurdelion Wrote:
(14-08-24, 12:21 PM)Gnasher Wrote: Remember, the TPS is a datum and shouldn't be moved before checking the settings of No4 carb.
You need to check butterfly operation, throttle cable and linkage freedom/movement, air screw condition/setting, idle speed and that's pulling the correct level of Hg (230 - 250) at the correct idle. If it's not there's a problem that you need to sort out on the carb.
No 4 carb is non adjustable when carrying out balancing it's the datum. The biggest mistake and what leads to many TPS failures is owners and stealers adjusting them before checking the settings above. In theory unless strip/take the carbs the TPS should rarely if ever need adjusting, that's why from the factory the screws are covered in paint.
My own Fazer 99, still has it's OE TPS, all those I work on for owners still have theirs. All of the TPS's I've had to adjust over the years are because one of the above mentioned have moved it, due to incorrect balancing, sticking throttles and/or people messing about with them.
I've only replaced 3 OE TPS's due to failure and these where 80k plus mileage, obviously this is likely to increase as bikes age, some Fazer are knocking on 27yrs old now.
Hi Gnasher,thanks for the indepth reply ,my TPS problem was down to the fact that there was no readings at all ,this gave a reading of 10000 that was not adjustable using the turning method,I've just received and tested the new mikuni one with a multi meter and have a standing reading of just under 5,this is when using the pins at either end and if you use one end and the middle pin the reading increases as it should,I took a photo of the old TPS position before removing and put the new one in the exact same place and got the wonderful 5000,that'll do for me .
Coeurdelion
(09-08-24, 07:41 AM)coeurdelion Wrote: Morning,hope everyone is well,I got my 2000 yamaha fazer 600 very wet whilst out and the day after whilst riding I noticed the revs dropping from 5000 to 0 then back up to 5000,i replaced a dodgy double headlight conversion wiring with a proper plug thinking thatveas the cause but no luck,I did the unplug and plug in tps technique and it went to 10000 and will not adjust down to the usual 5000,the bike is fine on tickover and runs normal with no surging or flat spots,with the ignition on and the tps unplugged the revs jump 0 to 3000 then 0 and 3000 repeating ,I bought a new tps and it had the bike still had same symptoms ,I bench tested the new tps with a meter ,no reading between the outside two pins but either one of the outside and the center pin I got a reading of 5.9 but this didn't alter when I turned the tps as if it was the throttle twisting ,my old tps had no readings at all,basically was the new tps dodgy or am I looking at another problem that isn't tps related?,apologies for the long thread
Cheers coeurdelion
Hi ,thanks to all the members for their help and advice quick update,received the new mikuni TPS for the fazer 600 year 2000,tested it with multimeter before fitting ,got a standing reading of 5ohms using the top and bottom pins ,when using the end pin and the center pin it gave a reading which increased when the center was turned ,like the butterfly flap opening,fitted and tested and got the 5000 OK, the new part has A3 on it whereas the original had A1 ,it came from a reputable motorcycle shop here in france not a dodgy chinese knock off ,should have just paid the €129 the day it packed in and saved the stress and constant testing,haven't had a test run yet so will post after,one thing I did notice is that it came with a small rubber ring ,impossible to fit with this on,my original didn't have one so I've fitted the new one without,maybe it's for a newer model as mine is the first edition FZS600 I don't know ,maybe someone can shed a bit of light on this
One thing I did notice is that the new TPS when in the setting mode (unplugged then plugged in )creates a slight humm whereas the original had no sound whatsoever, might be helpful to someone testing there's ?
Coeurdelion
Just a newer upgraded version, usually referred to by yamaha as Superceded.
(14-08-24, 12:21 PM)Gnasher Wrote: Remember, the TPS is a datum and shouldn't be moved before checking the settings of No4 carb.
You need to check butterfly operation, throttle cable and linkage freedom/movement, air screw condition/setting, idle speed and that's pulling the correct level of Hg (230 - 250) at the correct idle. If it's not there's a problem that you need to sort out on the carb.
No 4 carb is non adjustable when carrying out balancing it's the datum. The biggest mistake and what leads to many TPS failures is owners and stealers adjusting them before checking the settings above. In theory unless strip/take the carbs the TPS should rarely if ever need adjusting, that's why from the factory the screws are covered in paint.
My own Fazer 99, still has it's OE TPS, all those I work on for owners still have theirs. All of the TPS's I've had to adjust over the years are because one of the above mentioned have moved it, due to incorrect balancing, sticking throttles and/or people messing about with them.
I've only replaced 3 OE TPS's due to failure and these where 80k plus mileage, obviously this is likely to increase as bikes age, some Fazer are knocking on 27yrs old now.
Hi Gnasher,thanks for the indepth reply ,my TPS problem was down to the fact that there was no readings at all ,this gave a reading of 10000 that was not adjustable using the turning method,I've just received and tested the new mikuni one with a multi meter and have a standing reading of just under 5,this is when using the pins at either end and if you use one end and the middle pin the reading increases as it should,I took a photo of the old TPS position before removing and put the new one in the exact same place and got the wonderful 5000,that'll do for me .
Coeurdelion
(09-08-24, 07:41 AM)coeurdelion Wrote: Morning,hope everyone is well,I got my 2000 yamaha fazer 600 very wet whilst out and the day after whilst riding I noticed the revs dropping from 5000 to 0 then back up to 5000,i replaced a dodgy double headlight conversion wiring with a proper plug thinking thatveas the cause but no luck,I did the unplug and plug in tps technique and it went to 10000 and will not adjust down to the usual 5000,the bike is fine on tickover and runs normal with no surging or flat spots,with the ignition on and the tps unplugged the revs jump 0 to 3000 then 0 and 3000 repeating ,I bought a new tps and it had the bike still had same symptoms ,I bench tested the new tps with a meter ,no reading between the outside two pins but either one of the outside and the center pin I got a reading of 5.9 but this didn't alter when I turned the tps as if it was the throttle twisting ,my old tps had no readings at all,basically was the new tps dodgy or am I looking at another problem that isn't tps related?,apologies for the long thread
Cheers coeurdelion
Hi ,thanks to all the members for their help and advice quick update,received the new mikuni TPS for the fazer 600 year 2000,tested it with multimeter before fitting ,got a standing reading of 5ohms using the top and bottom pins ,when using the end pin and the center pin it gave a reading which increased when the center was turned ,like the butterfly flap opening,fitted and tested and got the 5000 OK, the new part has A3 on it whereas the original had A1 ,it came from a reputable motorcycle shop here in france not a dodgy chinese knock off ,should have just paid the €129 the day it packed in and saved the stress and constant testing,haven't had a test run yet so will post after,one thing I did notice is that it came with a small rubber ring ,impossible to fit with this on,my original didn't have one so I've fitted the new one without,maybe it's for a newer model as mine is the first edition FZS600 I don't know ,maybe someone can shed a bit of light on this
One thing I did notice is that the new TPS when in the setting mode (unplugged then plugged in )creates a slight humm whereas the original had no sound whatsoever, might be helpful to someone testing their's ?
Coeurdelion
The point is and regardless of why the TPS failed. If No4 carb isn't set and balanced correctly the as the datum the ignition system via TPS won't be doing what it should as well as it should, if it's out far enough you'll start seeing false readings and that when people start moving the TPS to get in back in range. But because No4 wasn't set correctly it was never in range and so on and son on.
(14-08-24, 02:45 PM)unfazed Wrote: ot 100% correct, I bought my 600 new and the TPS failed at 35000n miles and it had never been touched. It now has 102000miles and still on the TPS I replaced at 35000miles
The one on my Fzs1000 failed recently at 68000km and it had not been touched either.
Adjusting them does not cause the failure, as you are only moving the start point of the TPS.
Yes they should be checked after the carburettors are synched and idle speed set.
They are mechanical and anything mechanical is prone to wear regardless.
I know of bikes with over 80000 miles and still have the original TPS, it is like most things mechanical some wear quicker than others.
All all Fazer carburettor are set to number 3 which is the reference/base carburettor as it has the throttle cables attached which is why you should really set 3 & 4 first then 1 & 2 and finally the screw between 1 & 2 to £ & 4is set.
Some came from the factory set incorrectly. Many 05 model FZS1000 had the Carbs and the TPS set incorrectly from the factory.
Wear and tear on the engine like Valves going out of adjustments effect the carb synch and when synchronised it can throw off the idles setting.
Adjusting the idle setting can throw off the TPs setting which is why it should be checked everytime you resynch the carbs
On my recent failure on the FZS1000 it tested perfectly on the tacho 0, 5000 and 10000 revs, but knowing I had a surging and vibration issue, I tested it with a meter and it was going open circuit around 2.7Kohm about half way through its rotation. No reason for it to fail at that point, but it did. I have a video of the test in MP$ format, but for some reason it will not allow me upload it.
I don't know why I bother sometimes, I really don't.
,I've got a Haynes manual which covers the thundercat yzf600r but when it comes to TPS it just says see a professional!!! 
