Morning,hope everyone is well,I got my 2000 yamaha fazer 600 very wet whilst out and the day after whilst riding I noticed the revs dropping from 5000 to 0 then back up to 5000,i replaced a dodgy double headlight conversion wiring with a proper plug thinking thatveas the cause but no luck,I did the unplug and plug in tps technique and it went to 10000 and will not adjust down to the usual 5000,the bike is fine on tickover and runs normal with no surging or flat spots,with the ignition on and the tps unplugged the revs jump 0 to 3000 then 0 and 3000 repeating ,I bought a new tps and it had the bike still had same symptoms ,I bench tested the new tps with a meter ,no reading between the outside two pins but either one of the outside and the center pin I got a reading of 5.9 but this didn't alter when I turned the tps as if it was the throttle twisting ,my old tps had no readings at all,basically was the new tps dodgy or am I looking at another problem that isn't tps related?,apologies for the long thread
Cheers coeurdelion
(09-08-24, 08:29 AM)BBROWN1664 Wrote: IIRC, the 3000rpm code is telling you the TPS is disconnected so check the plug is on properly and the rest of the wiring/connectors.
Hi again,I only get the 3000 to 0 repeating when I unplug the tps and switch the ignition on,when I plug the tps in it should go to either 0 or 5000 which is good ,the 10000 mine goes to is bad and usually adjustable but mine won't adjust,I might have to bite the bullit and spend €100 on a new mikuni tps but just wanted to run the symptoms by the fazer boffins on here incase members had similar symptoms that weren't tps related,I'm a Yorkshire man so as tight as a ducks rs!! I've got a shelf in my garage full of new parts I've bought to repair my past bikes that I didn't need so don't want to add anymore
coeurdelion
3000 is TPS disconnected.
Once you reconnect it 0-5-10 depending on the adjustment with 5 being where you need it and can usually adjust it accordingly between the 3 values.
I have seen a document somewhere recently and have just been trying to find it again with no luck, but one of the TPS used by Suzuki is the same as the one on the FZS600 but half the price that Yamaha charge so worth having a good search of the forum for that.
(09-08-24, 12:43 PM)BBROWN1664 Wrote: yes. You have diagnosed it already really.
3000 is TPS disconnected.
Once you reconnect it 0-5-10 depending on the adjustment with 5 being where you need it and can usually adjust it accordingly between the 3 values.
I have seen a document somewhere recently and have just been trying to find it again with no luck, but one of the TPS used by Suzuki is the same as the one on the FZS600 but half the price that Yamaha charge so worth having a good search of the forum for that.
Hi again and thanks for the reply,it's a minefield looking for the correct tps for a fazer,seen one from the old thundercat model that was the inspiration for the fazer but never sure on buying second hand,the one I've just returned was new but but faulty it wasn't a mikuni so you get what you pay for I suppose,
As you say one for a yamaha R1 will be £250 but it's probably the same one on a yamaha TDM which will be £60 !!!
coeurdelion
I had a look at my notes from a couple of years ago and undoubtedly after a lot of research found out, like Unfazed has said, i'd written down that the TPS is the same model number as the 2001 YZF-R1.
Part number: 4HD-85885-00-00
Better still, i found one that is a reasonable price too:
10-08-24, 07:36 AM (This post was last modified: 10-08-24, 07:42 AM by coeurdelion.)
(10-08-24, 12:55 AM)unfazed Wrote: Check the Suzuki one 13550-13D61 Exactly the same and usually over half the price depending on where you buy
Both Mikuni
Compare it to the Yamaha one 4HD-85885-00 and see for your self
Hi Unfazed,thanks for the number,I'll keep an eye out for one as they do come up a lot over here on leboncoin but without the serial number it's all guesswork and suck it and see,after living in france for 20 years i still dont get the second hand sellers ,they post photos of dirty uncleaned parts and when you ask if it's been tested you just get a non,if it works ill buy it otherwise it's just food for the bin !
coeurdelion
(10-08-24, 06:58 AM)darrsi Wrote: I had a look at my notes from a couple of years ago and undoubtedly after a lot of research found out, like Unfazed has said, i'd written down that the TPS is the same model number as the 2001 YZF-R1.
Part number: 4HD-85885-00-00
Better still, i found one that is a reasonable price too:
Hi darrsi,thanks for the information and part number ,it will help a lot in my search ,unfortunately the one on eBay isn't mikuni and the last one I tried that didn't work was also not mikuni so lesson learned but thanks .I've not got a proper trip on the bike until end of September so hopefully plenty of time to source one and if not I'll just not look at the rev counter needle jumping about when riding
Coeurdelion
(10-08-24, 12:55 AM)unfazed Wrote: Check the Suzuki one 13550-13D61 Exactly the same and usually over half the price depending on where you buy
Both Mikuni
Compare it to the Yamaha one 4HD-85885-00 and see for your self
Hi Unfazed,thanks for the number,I'll keep an eye out for one as they do come up a lot over here on leboncoin but without the serial number it's all guesswork and suck it and see,after living in france for 20 years i still dont get the second hand sellers ,they post photos of dirty uncleaned parts and when you ask if it's been tested you just get a non,if it works ill buy it otherwise it's just food for the bin !
coeurdelion
Not worth buying used, unless its from a very low mileage bike
If in France check thses dealers https://www.cmsnl.com/ in Holland
or https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/en in Germany
(10-08-24, 12:55 AM)unfazed Wrote: Check the Suzuki one 13550-13D61 Exactly the same and usually over half the price depending on where you buy
Both Mikuni
Compare it to the Yamaha one 4HD-85885-00 and see for your self
Hi Unfazed,thanks for the number,I'll keep an eye out for one as they do come up a lot over here on leboncoin but without the serial number it's all guesswork and suck it and see,after living in france for 20 years i still dont get the second hand sellers ,they post photos of dirty uncleaned parts and when you ask if it's been tested you just get a non,if it works ill buy it otherwise it's just food for the bin !
coeurdelion
(10-08-24, 06:58 AM)darrsi Wrote: I had a look at my notes from a couple of years ago and undoubtedly after a lot of research found out, like Unfazed has said, i'd written down that the TPS is the same model number as the 2001 YZF-R1.
Part number: 4HD-85885-00-00
Better still, i found one that is a reasonable price too:
Hi darrsi,thanks for the information and part number ,it will help a lot in my search ,unfortunately the one on eBay isn't mikuni and the last one I tried that didn't work was also not mikuni so lesson learned but thanks .I've not got a proper trip on the bike until end of September so hopefully plenty of time to source one and if not I'll just not look at the rev counter needle jumping about when riding
Coeurdelion
There has been a lot of discussion about these over the years, but unfortunately they were all on the old website which can't be accessed now.
To cut a long story short i would say DO NOT buy a used one. Due to the age of the bikes you will have no history of it, apart from the fact it will be very old and likely to have done a lot of miles.
I bought two used ones before and they both failed on me, not instantly but gradually, so the bike playing up sort of creeps up on you whilst creating a lot of confusion figuring it out, but at least now i know the signs, as my bike is now on it's 4th TPS but at least the latest one was brand new.
Personally i reckon you're thinking too much into the Mikuni thing, and IF your last one was brand new then i'd say you were just very unlucky as there's not really too much to them.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
Darrsi - which old website? The one we have just stopped using? If so, all the posts are here on this site now. If you are talking about the one we stopped using 10-12 years ago i can find a link for that later if needed.
(10-08-24, 10:34 AM)BBROWN1664 Wrote: Darrsi - which old website? The one we have just stopped using? If so, all the posts are here on this site now. If you are talking about the one we stopped using 10-12 years ago i can find a link for that later if needed.
With the info of the R1 TPS i had emailed myself and stored, there was also a forum link there as well, presumably of a previous discussion about it, but when i tried to open it it didn't work so i just gave up and removed it, then replaced it with the latest info on where to buy one instead.
Sods Law, that led me onto having a quick clean up so deleted the link AND then deleted my 'deleted items' folder too.
Oh well, lol.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
10-08-24, 11:46 AM (This post was last modified: 10-08-24, 11:47 AM by coeurdelion.)
(10-08-24, 09:46 AM)darrsi Wrote:
(10-08-24, 07:36 AM)coeurdelion Wrote:
(10-08-24, 12:55 AM)unfazed Wrote: Check the Suzuki one 13550-13D61 Exactly the same and usually over half the price depending on where you buy
Both Mikuni
Compare it to the Yamaha one 4HD-85885-00 and see for your self
Hi Unfazed,thanks for the number,I'll keep an eye out for one as they do come up a lot over here on leboncoin but without the serial number it's all guesswork and suck it and see,after living in france for 20 years i still dont get the second hand sellers ,they post photos of dirty uncleaned parts and when you ask if it's been tested you just get a non,if it works ill buy it otherwise it's just food for the bin !
coeurdelion
(10-08-24, 06:58 AM)darrsi Wrote: I had a look at my notes from a couple of years ago and undoubtedly after a lot of research found out, like Unfazed has said, i'd written down that the TPS is the same model number as the 2001 YZF-R1.
Part number: 4HD-85885-00-00
Better still, i found one that is a reasonable price too:
Hi darrsi,thanks for the information and part number ,it will help a lot in my search ,unfortunately the one on eBay isn't mikuni and the last one I tried that didn't work was also not mikuni so lesson learned but thanks .I've not got a proper trip on the bike until end of September so hopefully plenty of time to source one and if not I'll just not look at the rev counter needle jumping about when riding
Coeurdelion
There has been a lot of discussion about these over the years, but unfortunately they were all on the old website which can't be accessed now.
To cut a long story short i would say DO NOT buy a used one. Due to the age of the bikes you will have no history of it, apart from the fact it will be very old and likely to have done a lot of miles.
I bought two used ones before and they both failed on me, not instantly but gradually, so the bike playing up sort of creeps up on you whilst creating a lot of confusion figuring it out, but at least now i know the signs, as my bike is now on it's 4th TPS but at least the latest one was brand new.
Personally i reckon you're thinking too much into the Mikuni thing, and IF your last one was brand new then i'd say you were just very unlucky as there's not really too much to them.
Yes you're probably right about the new one being dodgy and just my luck to get that 1 in a 1000 that doesn't work,I'm that unlucky if I fell into a barrel full of breasts I'd come out sucking my thumb !!!
Coeurdelion
(10-08-24, 12:55 AM)unfazed Wrote: Check the Suzuki one 13550-13D61 Exactly the same and usually over half the price depending on where you buy
Both Mikuni
Compare it to the Yamaha one 4HD-85885-00 and see for your self
Hi Unfazed,thanks for the number,I'll keep an eye out for one as they do come up a lot over here on leboncoin but without the serial number it's all guesswork and suck it and see,after living in france for 20 years i still dont get the second hand sellers ,they post photos of dirty uncleaned parts and when you ask if it's been tested you just get a non,if it works ill buy it otherwise it's just food for the bin !
coeurdelion
(10-08-24, 06:58 AM)darrsi Wrote: I had a look at my notes from a couple of years ago and undoubtedly after a lot of research found out, like Unfazed has said, i'd written down that the TPS is the same model number as the 2001 YZF-R1.
Part number: 4HD-85885-00-00
Better still, i found one that is a reasonable price too:
Hi darrsi,thanks for the information and part number ,it will help a lot in my search ,unfortunately the one on eBay isn't mikuni and the last one I tried that didn't work was also not mikuni so lesson learned but thanks .I've not got a proper trip on the bike until end of September so hopefully plenty of time to source one and if not I'll just not look at the rev counter needle jumping about when riding
Coeurdelion
There has been a lot of discussion about these over the years, but unfortunately they were all on the old website which can't be accessed now.
To cut a long story short i would say DO NOT buy a used one. Due to the age of the bikes you will have no history of it, apart from the fact it will be very old and likely to have done a lot of miles.
I bought two used ones before and they both failed on me, not instantly but gradually, so the bike playing up sort of creeps up on you whilst creating a lot of confusion figuring it out, but at least now i know the signs, as my bike is now on it's 4th TPS but at least the latest one was brand new.
Personally i reckon you're thinking too much into the Mikuni thing, and IF your last one was brand new then i'd say you were just very unlucky as there's not really too much to them.
Yes you're probably right about the new one being dodgy and just my luck to get that 1 in a 1000 that doesn't work,I'm that unlucky if I fell into a barrel full of breasts I'd come out sucking my thumb !!!
Coeurdelion
There's been many times that we've bought brand new electrical equipment at work that we test immediately before engraving them, and they have simply been duds. It happens, albeit rarely.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
A little insight into the TPS, there is no hard and fast rule with them failing like most electronic parts. They are are variable resistors and work using a wiper rotating across a carbon track and from continuous use can wear the carbon track or the wiper weakens and does not make with the track correctly. I have come across a smalll number where water has seaped in through hairline cracks This setup is used in many items most common ones are a volume control in a Radio, the fuel sender in the petrol tank of many cars and bikes or the remote control in some game consoles.
The TPS is sealed on bikes for obvious reasons
See pics, which are courtesy of engineers garage as I dumped the old ones I had since they are rarely repairable.They show how they operate and the make up
The usual reason the fuel tank ones fail is from wear on the lever mount which can be fixed.
There are spurious one available, but unless they are a reputable brand eg.Tourtec keep away from them.
Some honda Transalp 700 fuel sendeers fail and are part of the fuel pump which is over €700. Some of these can be repaired also as it is from float lever wear.
Just be glad you don't own an Alpha Romeo as like many cars have a TPS and are are part of the Throttle body. When they fail you have to buy the full throttle body. The Alfa ones are a very common failure with a throttle body costing 1000s. There used to a fellow in the UK who did repair them but not sure if he still is around.
(10-08-24, 03:17 PM)unfazed Wrote: A little insight into the TPS, there is no hard and fast rule with them failing like most electronic parts. They are are variable resistors and work using a wiper rotating across a carbon track and from continuous use can wear the carbon track or the wiper weakens and does not make with the track correctly. I have come across a smalll number where water has seaped in through hairline cracks This setup is used in many items most common ones are a volume control in a Radio, the fuel sender in the petrol tank of many cars and bikes or the remote control in some game consoles.
The TPS is sealed on bikes for obvious reasons
See pics, which are courtesy of engineers garage as I dumped the old ones I had since they are rarely repairable.They show how they operate and the make up
The usual reason the fuel tank ones fail is from wear on the lever mount which can be fixed.
There are spurious one available, but unless they are a reputable brand eg.Tourtec keep away from them.
Some honda Transalp 700 fuel sendeers fail and are part of the fuel pump which is over €700. Some of these can be repaired also as it is from float lever wear.
Just be glad you don't own an Alpha Romeo as like many cars have a TPS and are are part of the Throttle body. When they fail you have to buy the full throttle body. The Alfa ones are a very common failure with a throttle body costing 1000s. There used to a fellow in the UK who did repair them but not sure if he still is around.
Brilliant info as per usual mate, and a great insight into something so simple yet if they go wrong your bike starts running like shite.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(10-08-24, 03:17 PM)unfazed Wrote: A little insight into the TPS, there is no hard and fast rule with them failing like most electronic parts. They are are variable resistors and work using a wiper rotating across a carbon track and from continuous use can wear the carbon track or the wiper weakens and does not make with the track correctly. I have come across a smalll number where water has seaped in through hairline cracks This setup is used in many items most common ones are a volume control in a Radio, the fuel sender in the petrol tank of many cars and bikes or the remote control in some game consoles.
The TPS is sealed on bikes for obvious reasons
See pics, which are courtesy of engineers garage as I dumped the old ones I had since they are rarely repairable.They show how they operate and the make up
The usual reason the fuel tank ones fail is from wear on the lever mount which can be fixed.
There are spurious one available, but unless they are a reputable brand eg.Tourtec keep away from them.
Some honda Transalp 700 fuel sendeers fail and are part of the fuel pump which is over €700. Some of these can be repaired also as it is from float lever wear.
Just be glad you don't own an Alpha Romeo as like many cars have a TPS and are are part of the Throttle body. When they fail you have to buy the full throttle body. The Alfa ones are a very common failure with a throttle body costing 1000s. There used to a fellow in the UK who did repair them but not sure if he still is around.
Brilliant info as per usual mate, and a great insight into something so simple yet if they go wrong your bike starts running like shite.
Thanks for the indepth explanation on the dreaded TPS ,still not sure if its a necessary part of a carburatored engine or just some other way to get you to keep paying after you've bought the bike,my old man only ever bought bog standard cars,nothing fancy as he said there's more stuff to go wrong ,if it wasn't for the fact that the rev counter needle was jumping from 5000 to 3000 to nothing on my way back from a rainy damp camping trip then I wouldn't have known the TPS was faulty.
Coeurdelion
It improves throttle response as it modifies the timing to suit the throttle opening, also stops pinging (poor combustion) when opening the throttle quickly. Depending on how it fails internally it can cause surging and /or extra vibration.
(11-08-24, 11:45 AM)unfazed Wrote: It improves throttle response as it modifies the timing to suit the throttle opening, also stops pinging (poor combustion) when opening the throttle quickly. Depending on how it fails internally it can cause surging and /or extra vibration.
Hi ,not noticed any changes in performance but I don't ride everyday ,still waiting for a cooler day to have a test ride
Coeurdelion
(11-08-24, 11:45 AM)unfazed Wrote: It improves throttle response as it modifies the timing to suit the throttle opening, also stops pinging (poor combustion) when opening the throttle quickly. Depending on how it fails internally it can cause surging and /or extra vibration.
Hi ,not noticed any changes in performance but I don't ride everyday ,still waiting for a cooler day to have a test ride
Coeurdelion
When mine failed on the 600 the only thing I noticed that the throttle response was a bit off, but I thought it was down to poor fuel as It did not throw up any code.
It made no difference to the power, but the throttle did not feel right .
When I checked during a service it would not change from 10000 on the clock which ever way it was turned.
The new one bought, brought back the throttle feel again, but then I was riding every day which was probably why I noticed the change.
When it failed on the 1000 it was making my fingeres number in traffic especially around 3 to 4000 rev and was surging on an off the throttle, but fine up over 5000revs no difference to the power, again not code on the Tacho
The new one has it back to normal. The new Suzuki one was €97 and the Yamaha on was €330. Exactly the same fittings and resistance measurements, but it need two pins to be swapped around as it works on the left side of the carb whereas the Yamaha one is on the right side. The work in different directions
