Engine oil

[Hedgetrimmer]

Mmmm...some interesting reading on there. But as you say, can't all be taken for granted. That's the trouble with oil - because of the vast profits to be made, it's always going to be difficult to find a source you can really trust. However, I think if you read from as many different sources as possible, a consensus could be arrived at.
But thanks for the link, it all helps.

[Farjo]

1. When you get your bike serviced they take oil out of a big drum. I assume that this is nothing special, just the minimum spec oil without the car additives.

2. When people say a motorbike engine creates more shear etc and therefore needs a thicker oil, how do you know that the motorbike oil that is sold is any 'thicker' (or fuller, etc) than car oil, except that it is described as motorcycle oil? Is the oil in (1) suitable for motorcycles?

3. What's to stop someone arranging a supply of ASDA car oil (without the agents) then bottling it up with a picture of a motorcycle on it? Would make a tidy profit! Is there a trading standard that states a motorcycle oil must have certain standards to differentiate it from car oil?

[Hedgetrimmer]

1. When you get your bike serviced they take oil out of a big drum. I assume that this is nothing special, just the minimum spec oil without the car additives.

2. When people say a motorbike engine creates more shear etc and therefore needs a thicker oil, how do you know that the motorbike oil that is sold is any 'thicker' (or fuller, etc) than car oil, except that it is described as motorcycle oil? Is the oil in (1) suitable for motorcycles?

3. What's to stop someone arranging a supply of ASDA car oil (without the agents) then bottling it up with a picture of a motorcycle on it? Would make a tidy profit! Is there a trading standard that states a motorcycle oil must have certain standards to differentiate it from car oil?

1. The oil a dealer has in the drum is (supposedly) the same as is available in 1 or 4 litre bottles, dependant of course on which oils he chooses to stock.
2. The weight of the oil is described on the packaging, eg 10W40, 20W50 etc.
3.No idea!

[Slaninar]

1. When you get your bike serviced they take oil out of a big drum. I assume that this is nothing special, just the minimum spec oil without the car additives.

2. When people say a motorbike engine creates more shear etc and therefore needs a thicker oil, how do you know that the motorbike oil that is sold is any 'thicker' (or fuller, etc) than car oil, except that it is described as motorcycle oil? Is the oil in (1) suitable for motorcycles?

Not necesserily thicker oil. Just more durable - not loosing viscousity as quickly.

3. What's to stop someone arranging a supply of ASDA car oil (without the agents) then bottling it up with a picture of a motorcycle on it? Would make a tidy profit! Is there a trading standard that states a motorcycle oil must have certain standards to differentiate it from car oil?

There is a JASO, Japanese standard, made just for that reason - to make sure oil is good for motorcycle engine AND clutch. Japanese big four made that standard to protect themselves - something along the line of: if you pour JASO approved oil and engine/clutch still make problems, then you can blame the producer.


There are good and bad car, as well as motorcycle oils.  The thing gets more complicated when you consider false packages (very common where I live - people copy the original package and sell cheap oil).


Motorcycle will run on any API SG oil (without the "fuel economy"  additives that ruin the clutch). But the engine run on good, full synth oil will work better and last longer with the same use.


The most important thing is to change oil regularly and to warm the engine up before riding hard.

[Doddsie]

OK, we`re getting there, so what oil do people recommend??

[Hedgetrimmer]

OK, own preference only - Silkolene Comp 4, (semi-synthetic 10w40, motorcycle specific, meets API SG, SH ,SJ AND JASO MA , MA2 specs)

[wezdavo]

I use Motul 5100 semi syn 10w 40...

[Slaninar]

Both mentioned Silkolene Comp 4 and Motul 5100 are VERY good semi-synthetic oils. Probably the best money-value solution for Fazers.


I use fully synth oils: at the moment Motul 7100 10w40, since I got it at a discount price.

[Doddsie]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271003275374?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648




good choice??

[Hedgetrimmer]

Yes, meets all necessary specs, and will look after your engine just fine.

[Jacko]

Here's a bit of a bargain,

http://www.wilko.com/car-maintenance/wilko-petrol-15w-40-motor-oil-5ltr/invt/0198942

Or if your feeling flush and got another £1.50 treat yourself to some semi skimmed.

http://www.wilko.com/car-maintenance/wilko-semi-synthetic-formula-10w-40-motor-oil-5ltr/invt/0257972

[Slaninar]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271003275374?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648




good choice??

Very good. 

[Doddsie]

OK, sorted, cheers everyone!!!

[Simon.Pieman]

A lot of people seem to distrust supermarket own brand stuff, but if its 10w40 semi synthetic bike oil, is it any different to the branded stuff???

Probably yes, but almost certainly not different enough to worry about.
 Can any of the people on here relate a story where an engine broke because they used cheap oil rather than expensive oil? I doubt it and I'd bet that most bikers don't know what happens inside an engine when an oil breaks down and stops doing it's job.
 If everyone on the forum just used cheapo mineral based Castrol GTX (£16 for 4 litres) for the rest of their lives I bet we'd never hear of an oil related breakdown.

[Slaninar]

Can any of the people on here relate a story where an engine broke because they used cheap oil rather than expensive oil?

That is true. Breakdowns occur when there is not (enough) oil in the engine.

However, better oils will make engine use less fuel, have slightly more HP, last a bit longer.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

However, better oils will make engine use less fuel, have slightly more HP, last a bit longer.

I have to say I rather doubt it.    A 'better' oil might last longer, but it will have sod all effect on fuel consumption (unless you use something really nasty) and no effect on BHP (again unless you use something nasty.

Just get some half decent semi-synth, do regular changes and stop worrying about oil.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Worth reading Slaninars link on page one of this thread, especially "The Truth About Motorcycle Oils" chapter. All oil manufacturers claim increases in engine performance, fuel consumption and longevity when they bring new products onto the market. As has been previously discussed here, there are reasons not to trust some of these claims, but if you go to any reputable source, you will find similar claims made, and reasons given.
Not worrying, just interested.

[Slaninar]

I have to say I rather doubt it.    A 'better' oil might last longer, but it will have sod all effect on fuel consumption (unless you use something really nasty) and no effect on BHP (again unless you use something nasty.

Differences are slight. The biggest advantage is better engine protection - especially during cold starting, as well as during high revving, and high engine temperatures.

[Fazerider]

Lubricant manufacturers do themselves no favours by letting the marketing men provide the descriptions for oil. Being non-scientists they naturally have nothing to offer but hype and bullshit when hard facts and a detailed listing of the additive package would go a long way to earning trust.
However, it's pretty obvious that oil in your bike engine has a harder time than it would in Ford Ka. Aside from wet clutch requirements, the power per cc of cylinder displacement is greater than that of a Mclaren F1 and the oil is shared with the gearbox which in a car is typically filled with oil of far higher viscosity.
So, if you're happy to buy the cheapest 10W-40 that you can find in Asda for your bike, and are convinced that motorcycle oil is just car oil with the word "motorcycle" on the packaging you might wonder why oil companies provide oil of unnecessarily high quality for under-stressed engines.


Simon.Pieman/VNA: I have used car oil (and not the cheapest) in bikes and regretted it… not that the engine actually broke as a result, but power gradually dropped off as the cam lobes suffered excessive wear.

[Simon.Pieman]

Simon.Pieman/VNA: I have used car oil (and not the cheapest) in bikes and regretted it… not that the engine actually broke as a result, but power gradually dropped off as the cam lobes suffered excessive wear.

 Castrol GTX (white can) is not strictly a car oil, it was advertised in bike magazines and MCN for many years as the stuff to put in your bike.
As for cam wear, how do you know it was the oil? many many bikes have suffered endemic cam lobe wear which is usually a hardening issue. I had a GPz900 in the eighties and almost the entire production run of the first model had premature camlobe wear for example.

[Enceladus]

think i've got some fuchs 10w40 bike oil in mine at the moment

[Jacko]

The Wilko oil I use isn't car oil it's just motor oil of the required spec as stated in the manual.
This cannot be wrong can it?
73,000 miles and counting.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

So, if you're happy to buy the cheapest 10W-40 that you can find in Asda for your bike, and are convinced that motorcycle oil is just car oil with the word "motorcycle" on the packaging you might wonder why oil companies provide oil of unnecessarily high quality for under-stressed engines.

Simon.Pieman/VNA: I have used car oil (and not the cheapest) in bikes and regretted it… not that the engine actually broke as a result, but power gradually dropped off as the cam lobes suffered excessive wear.

Most of what is being said here is opinion and here say, not fact.

Pretty much all we have to go on are specs. 

I think we are just going round in circles. 

OK, here's a question, does anything in the spec on the can tell you whether there are friction modifiers or not?  I don't think there is.  There may be clues like 'optimised for fuel economy' in which case you avoid like the plague.

Lets face it oil companies, as far as I can see, manufacture an oil to meet a spec.  Then they can re-brand, if they wish to suit.  They can stick a picture of a car on one tin, a bike on another, a truck on another etc.  The stuff in the car tin may or may not have fiction modifiers in it.  But a picture of a high performance bike is always a great opportunity to shove the price up. 

Also the quality of car oil and the demands on the stuff have increased considerably in the last decade.  Have a look at the specs, say for example, of some of the latest small capacity turbo charged car engines.  Note the impressive BHP and torque figures, plus it's got a turbo to contend with and a 20,000 mile service interval.

You could spend quite a bit of time figuring out oil specs, maybe contacting oil companies for the finer details (they may or may not want to be helpful) and will probably end up buying a far better oil for a much better price for your bike, and I bet it won't have a picture of a motorcycle on the tin.

Oh don't forget truck oil.  They probably have the highest specs of all road going engines, and could be just the ticket for the bike.  You'd have to buy a big drum though.

But seriously unless you really know your oil, most of what is being written here (maybe my post too?) is just hot air.

I just buy a semi synth with a picture of a bike on the front.  Expensive, and last time I looked up the spec years ago, pretty basic too.  But I haven't yet bothered to work out how to get something better for less for my bike.  Probably because the time ain't worth the tenner a year I'd save. 

[Hedgetrimmer]

So, if you're happy to buy the cheapest 10W-40 that you can find in Asda for your bike, and are convinced that motorcycle oil is just car oil with the word "motorcycle" on the packaging you might wonder why oil companies provide oil of unnecessarily high quality for under-stressed engines.

Simon.Pieman/VNA: I have used car oil (and not the cheapest) in bikes and regretted it… not that the engine actually broke as a result, but power gradually dropped off as the cam lobes suffered excessive wear.

Most of what is being said here is opinion and here say, not fact.

Pretty much all we have to go on are specs. 

I think we are just going round in circles. 

OK, here's a question, does anything in the spec on the can tell you whether there are friction modifiers or not?  I don't think there is.  There may be clues like 'optimised for fuel economy' in which case you avoid like the plague.

Lets face it oil companies, as far as I can see, manufacture an oil to meet a spec.  Then they can re-brand, if they wish to suit.  They can stick a picture of a car on one tin, a bike on another, a truck on another etc.  The stuff in the car tin may or may not have fiction modifiers in it.  But a picture of a high performance bike is always a great opportunity to shove the price up. 

Also the quality of car oil and the demands on the stuff have increased considerably in the last decade.  Have a look at the specs, say for example, of some of the latest small capacity turbo charged car engines.  Note the impressive BHP and torque figures, plus it's got a turbo to contend with and a 20,000 mile service interval.

You could spend quite a bit of time figuring out oil specs, maybe contacting oil companies for the finer details (they may or may not want to be helpful) and will probably end up buying a far better oil for a much better price for your bike, and I bet it won't have a picture of a motorcycle on the tin.

Oh don't forget truck oil.  They probably have the highest specs of all road going engines, and could be just the ticket for the bike.  You'd have to buy a big drum though.

But seriously unless you really know your oil, most of what is being written here (maybe my post too?) is just hot air.

I just buy a semi synth with a picture of a bike on the front.  Expensive, and last time I looked up the spec years ago, pretty basic too.  But I haven't yet bothered to work out how to get something better for less for my bike.  Probably because the time ain't worth the tenner a year I'd save.

Which is all why I read what I can on such subjects. Where sources disagree, ok the jury's out, you may never know. But if you get a good consensus of opinion across as many sources as you can find, then that's probably your best guide. You're absolutely right, opinions from the layman (ie most of us) aren't much use. But there is a wealth of information out there from professional sources, it'd be churlish to ignore it. I've worked in a lot of bike shops down the last 15 years or so, ok, not as a mechanic/technician, but I listen, and yes I've heard conflicting opinions about many things, but gradually you narrow it down to the things everyone agrees on. I like to think that's what we're trying to do here on this thread and on others like it. So I pay more attention to the guys who say, "this is what I did, and this was the result", rather than just "this is what I think". And if you're still not convinced, well you store it away until further information comes in and then assess it again. In this particular case, we all use oil, so it makes sense to try to find out a few facts about the stuff.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Simon.Pieman/VNA: I have used car oil (and not the cheapest) in bikes and regretted it… not that the engine actually broke as a result, but power gradually dropped off as the cam lobes suffered excessive wear.

 Castrol GTX (white can) is not strictly a car oil, it was advertised in bike magazines and MCN for many years as the stuff to put in your bike.
As for cam wear, how do you know it was the oil? many many bikes have suffered endemic cam lobe wear which is usually a hardening issue. I had a GPz900 in the eighties and almost the entire production run of the first model had premature camlobe wear for example.

Yes, it would be useful to know if this (cam lobe wear) problem was definitely due to the oil you used, and how you can be sure of this?