I think that Counter steering gets explained wrong which confuses people, this pushing bars thing is wrong, the bars are somewhere to rest you hands,
and stop them flapping about in the wind
I always understood countersteering as something you did in a car, when you flick the steering wheel the wrong way to kick the arse out to start what they call drifting now.
To me what they call countersteering on bikes these days, is counter weighing, steering the bike with your waist and hips, the bars aren't pushed left or right.
One goes down giving the impression of being pushed because your elbow straightens and the other comes up giving the impression of being pulled because that elbow bends more.
I've followed a couple of people recently, I don't know if they are new bikers or fairweathers that haven't been out for a while, but you can see the stiffness in there bodies.
That tight neck raised shoulders. rod like back no flexablity in the body. if that did a bit of Weaving like GP racers do to warm their tyres up it would help them to loosen up the body and and get the feel for the bikes abilities again.
Hey Mr Razgruff, interesting post indeed & i feel a classic example how much harder counter steering is to explain or imagine than it is to put into practice.I'm not having a go as i think you've brought up lots of good points even if we are a bit off from the original post but hey ho here's my tuppence worth
.& yes it's long (im night shift
)
Clearly you can corner & have been doing so for some time, i'm just experimenting with limited experience but with good results but everything i've researched & tried so far indicates that it's mostly about pushing the bars.
People will instinctively move their bodies & twist their hips & to some extent this will assist with cornering but the majority of the work is done with the Bars & moving the body actually only improves the push on the bars.
Perhaps a flick of the hips will initiate the turn of the bars in the opposite direction (Think stabilising a Kayak) much the same but to a lesser degree (i'll need to try it out as grhamm suggests) but i doubt it could ever be as effective as pushing the bars & theres another interesting post on the site entitled 'why dont police riders hang off'' which also explains the bigger picture regarding body movement.
I like your comment about the bars being rests for the hands as what i've found so far is that holding on too tight to the grips whilst cornering like you say isnt good & hampers progress & stops the bike going where it wants to go.a looser grip and allowing a bit of 'wobble' so to speak & allowing the tyres to track naturally over the surface imperfections is working much better for me.
Posture wise, as you say, trying to loosen up also helps & i do now complete a few weaves back & forth once i'm out of the village (only Fazer in the village
) just to remind me how light the bike is as there's a tendency after hauling it from the shed & pushing it round the front to think it is still a heavy lump & it really isnt once you get going.
I do find this also reminds me of how quick the bike will turn in before i get to the first corner & therefore the first corner is usually done correctly & my confidence isnt dented before im even started on the ride.
I have a video of me riding last year before i'd sussed counter steering in my mind & my posture was very upright, not ideal i can't deny & partly due to me trying to save my old back injury but actually i was cornering pretty well with no hip or body twisting so was obviously counter steering in practice.
Again on my Kayak (sorry
) i find that keeping loose allows me to go through choppy water much easier but i can still be upright whilst being loose.
One last thing that i've finally relented to which i think is related to counter steer is leaning over the tank.
I always thought it was another one of those Moto GP copycat moves & wasnt particularly bothered about wind blast unless doing high speed straight lining so i chose not to do it, certainly not for cornering.
Much to my surprise then on my last run when i tried it.The difference was quite dramatic & i was straight on the phone to my old man to discuss why it made such a difference.
So what we hypothesised in the end was that it was maybe to do with lowering the weight & centre of gravity bla bla bla which i didnt totally think was responsible but then it clicked...whilst hunkered over i was more in line with the bars instead of being above them.
This meant that when i counter steered round a corner all of the effort was going out forwards on the bars.When i am upright most of the weight is transferred downwards with the remainder going forwards.
In a nutshell, leaning over the tank made it easier to counter steer with the bars, i wasnt moving my body around all that much.My arms were also more bent & it was easier to keep a loose grip whilst counter steering.
can't wait to finish these shifts on Sunday & get out & test out my theory again, right or wrong it'll be fun trying.