Author Topic: always hard to start (she breathes fire and demands miles as a sacrifice)solved (Read 8068 times)

carrier · « **Reply #25 on:** 04 April 2013, 04:12:05 pm »

Fazerrrider, Lawrence, Adier - Let me rephrase that, the starter motor takes quite a big of power, but even if the battery is dying it will crank... slower and without the same entusiasm, but it will turn over. The sparks on the other hand, if not enough amperage goes through the transformer to turn it into big ass voltage, it does nothing... right?

Darrsi - Yeah I thought of that... but it was on, I turned it off and on for good measure.

Fazerider · « **Reply #26 on:** 04 April 2013, 05:10:56 pm »

No, in a dying battery situation the sparks should still be good... the CDI can increase the dwell time to compensate.
It's more likely that the first thing you'd notice is the starter relay clacking on and off because the battery voltage sinks so low when it sees the starter motor that it can no longer hold the relay closed then, once the relay's open, the voltage rises back high enough to activate it.

carrier · « **Reply #27 on:** 04 April 2013, 05:25:27 pm »

So then it's more than likely to be a lack of fuel problem?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #28 on:** 04 April 2013, 05:34:58 pm »

One quick thought, could you potentially get a video of trying to start the bike? Might allow some of us helpful foccers to hear what's going on as well - may well help to prove or disprove some of the theories that are in play at current

Ebme Geek · « **Reply #29 on:** 04 April 2013, 05:42:02 pm »

Sparks, fuel, compression are the basics
I think it's got lost somewhere, check the easiest first, are there sparks while it wont run, either take a plug out, or use a spare one, has not got to be the right type, put it in the cap and hold it against the top fin on the side of the cylinder (not the cam cover, it's rubber mounted).
You will know where better to look then

carrier · « **Reply #30 on:** 04 April 2013, 08:52:36 pm »

I'll try to post a video this weekend.

The plot so far. The fuel tap is definitely letting fuel in, the battery is...battering, the spark plugs..might not be sparking. Though I didn't place it near any ground. I thought I would see it spark without that...no?

Once again thanks for all the help.

Edit...just realised I didn't ground the sparkplug correctly, will do again tomorrow

Orangegrump · « **Reply #31 on:** 04 April 2013, 09:38:47 pm »

Check your ignition coils.

clayt74 · « **Reply #32 on:** 05 April 2013, 01:48:23 pm »

the redline problem that you are also having would suggest its more than just a starting problem but also a problem keeping it running.
Now then just to throw another thought into the mix, i would check and probably replace your starter circuit cut off relay (not the starter relay)
that relay contains several diodes that could eaisly have been blown when your bike got fried!!! and one of those diodes being faulty could stop the ignitor unit from operating correctly but still allowing the starter motor to operate.

only my thoughts but good luck

carrier · « **Reply #33 on:** 06 April 2013, 07:15:03 pm »

OK so

The fuel tap is fuelling
The high tension coil is coiling
The pickup coil is picking up
The spark plugs are still not sparking
The ignition main switch is switching

I'm going to blame the ignition control unit so I ordered another one and will soon see. Any body else have any suggestions?

The ignition coil is the same as the hit coils right?

Clayt74 not sure where this starter circuit cutoff relay is...where is it?

carrier · « **Reply #34 on:** 08 April 2013, 11:03:43 am »

hey, could anyone take a look at their CDI/ignistion control unit and see if one of their wires is snipped? Mine has a green wire that is cut off???

according to the wiring diagram there isn't a green wire at all

clayt74 · « **Reply #35 on:** 08 April 2013, 12:05:05 pm »

Hi carrier, the starter cut off circuit relay, is on the lefthand side of the bike just behind the battery, its the larger of the 2 relays.
as for the green wire on the ignition unit, mine is connected, but as you say im not sure where it connects too?

Details

ignition unit

clayt74 · « **Reply #36 on:** 08 April 2013, 12:14:27 pm »

on the wiring schematic its the wire shown as light green LG which from what i can see enables the starter motor as long as its in neutral or the side stand is up.
doesnt seem to be related to your problem, but i think should definately be connected.

good luck mate

carrier · « **Reply #37 on:** 08 April 2013, 12:32:13 pm »

Quote from: clayt74 on 08 April 2013, 12:14:27 pm

on the wiring schematic its the wire shown as light green LG which from what i can see enables the starter motor as long as its in neutral or the side stand is up.
doesnt seem to be related to your problem, but i think should definately be connected.

good luck mate

Thanks!

But the starter circuit...doesn't that take care of the starter motor, which is working fine, or does it affect spark aswell? But hey I might just switch it out anyway. Thanks again

clayt74 · « **Reply #38 on:** 08 April 2013, 05:10:56 pm »

I would definitely get the light green wire spliced back together, it connects from the safety cut off relay so could be preventing the ignition unit exciting the coils properly. Hence no spark.
Good luck

carrier · « **Reply #39 on:** 10 April 2013, 08:36:00 pm »

It was not the ignition control unit/cdi/ecu

Next the starter cut off relay

I took a pic of my CSI and doesn't look the same as clayts

carrier · « **Reply #40 on:** 13 April 2013, 03:47:43 pm »

So far I have

Changed the battery
Changed the spark plugs
Changed the Cdi
Changed the starter cut off relay
Checked the fuel tap
Check the hit coils
Checked the pick up coils
Checked the alternator {visibly fine but the resistance is a little high 0.6 ohm for every wire.)
Am I missing anything?

The bike now sparks "weakly" and if I hold the starter it rumbles but still cant get it to idle... is it not getting the compression needed? I went back to my original cdi.

Ruby Racing · « **Reply #41 on:** 13 April 2013, 04:42:30 pm »

I'm confused now. Your heading says: (it was the battery all along!), but the post says you still have problems. Which is it? Soz.

carrier · « **Reply #42 on:** 14 April 2013, 07:42:37 am »

Sorry I edited the first page. All fixed
It was the battery in the end.

Thanks everyone

darrsi · « **Reply #43 on:** 14 April 2013, 11:46:05 am »

"...Solved... in the end it was the battery. Turns it the last time I took off the tank I forgot to turn the fuel tap back on. The moral is check the battery first!..."

Crikey, you know how to confuse an issue, was it the battery or no fuel?

carrier · « **Reply #44 on:** 14 April 2013, 01:06:51 pm »

It was the battery. I took off the fuel tank twice. The first time to check the the ignition and a second time to check the ht coils, the second time I forgot to turn the tap on again. It was the battery.

darrsi · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 April 2013, 01:31:41 pm »

Yay, i got one right.......

Ruby Racing · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 April 2013, 05:31:12 pm »

Glad you solved it.

This is often the problem with fuel injected bikes as there's so much that needs power if the battery doesn't have enough juice they will often refuse to try to fire up. I have a Triumph Daytona 675 and have had "issues" with the battery. Sometimes they even show enough volts but still wont work. Usually means the battery is goosed and time for a new one.

carrier · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 April 2013, 08:28:58 pm »

Quote from: Ruby Racing on 14 April 2013, 05:31:12 pm

Glad you solved it.

This is often the problem with fuel injected bikes as there's so much that needs power if the battery doesn't have enough juice they will often refuse to try to fire up. I have a Triumph Daytona 675 and have had "issues" with the battery. Sometimes they even show enough volts but still wont work. Usually means the battery is goosed and time for a new one.

Its a carb bike

...

Ruby Racing · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 April 2013, 08:52:15 pm »

Quote from: carrier on 14 April 2013, 08:28:58 pm

Quote from: Ruby Racing on 14 April 2013, 05:31:12 pm
Glad you solved it.

This is often the problem with fuel injected bikes as there's so much that needs power if the battery doesn't have enough juice they will often refuse to try to fire up. I have a Triumph Daytona 675 and have had "issues" with the battery. Sometimes they even show enough volts but still wont work. Usually means the battery is goosed and time for a new one.

Its a carb bike ...

Yeah I know! (Done in a Little Britain voice). I have one myself after all.

I should have said something like "it's usually fuel injected bikes that have this problem." But I didn't. Ne'er mind eh.

reillypadraig · « **Reply #49 on:** 15 April 2013, 01:52:43 am »

Glad she is fixed and working after all that, if it happens again check the reg/rectifier? If its not giving the battery the right charge it will bollox the battery eventually that's where the last battery was dying and at the bike on idle it's running on the battery, not enough charge from the generator until about 2,500-3000 rev to re-charge, I'm open to be corrected on this but worth a look after you spent so much on replacing everything else