Date: 27-01-21  Time: 01:50 AM

Author Topic: steam powered boxeye ?  (Read 2404 times)

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
steam powered boxeye ?
« on: 05 July 2020, 06:14:27 PM »
my trusty 98 600 boxeye has developed a problem...it sounds as if its steam powered,its had a bit of a whining gearbox since i bought it approx 18 years ago,today i fitted new chain and sprockets and this has highlighted the sound,pulling away and changing up through the box it sounds like a steam engine until wind noise drowns it out,chain is properly adjusted, with the sprockets inline and with the correct amount of slack. (30-40mm )...looking back through the service history before i owned it, it mentions the chain was way too tight so i thinking ive got a bit of play in the output shaft bearing maybe caused by the tight chain all those years ago...new front sprocket (jt) was a very snug fit and i think i would have noticed any play but i think my first  job will be to remove the sprocket cover, remove the chain and check for any play....your thoughts please foccers
One, is never going to be enough.....

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,586
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #1 on: 05 July 2020, 07:16:45 PM »
was riding my dads 03 fzs600 this morning and that seemed to have a speed related whine. I put it down to the lack of grease on the chain as that seemed very dry.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

bazza

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - triumph bonneville '74 t120
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #2 on: 06 July 2020, 08:41:43 AM »
speedo drive on front wheel can whine a bit if in need of grease

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,586
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #3 on: 06 July 2020, 09:04:49 AM »
:agree

I do need to finish giving his bike a good service/once over. He is terrible at doing even the basics like pumping up the tyres. I rode it down the road on Saturday and after 2-300m turned around and came home as the handling was terrifying. Quick check with the pressure gauge told me why. 15psi in the front and 25030 in the rear :eek Pumped them up and was all good to go.

Jobs I did do before riding it though, adjusted the gear lever position so I could change gear without lifting my foot off the peg, adjusted the chain to reduce the slack from 50mm to about 30mm (lovely gear change now rather than the clunk it had before), adjusted the clutch cable at the bottom end so that the top end was not floating in the breeze with not even a single thread in the lever perch :eek

Next jobs, once I can get the bike back off him again will be to give it a service, bleed the brakes (rear has far too much travel and front just don't bite that well) and generally finish giving it a good going over.

For an 03 plate with 22k miles on the clock, its not that bad really. Certainly nothing a few hours in the garage wouldn't solve.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,157
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #4 on: 06 July 2020, 09:18:32 AM »
Could it not be as simple as the new chain rubbing on the plastic chain guide?
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #5 on: 06 July 2020, 09:30:28 AM »
off for the next 4 weeks on furlough but had to pop into work this morning to make sure everyone knows what they should be doing as they have been off for the last 4 weeks,took the 600 and had a good listen .....iam now sure its the chain ,although i took my time when fitting yesterday and made sure everything was spot on there must be something not quite right...going to take a look at a small oil leak on the thou today but if all go`s well should have time to re-visit the 600...


BAZZA...had the speedo drive off a few weeks ago and gave it a good greasing but worth checking again  :thumbup


BBROWN...chain is well lubed and runs smooth bit i will wipe clean and check all links and re-lube  :thumbup




DARRSI...yes been thinking the same this morning, when fitting the new chain i removed the guide and de-greased it, its very worn ( never been changed bike on 50k ) lower edge was falling apart so i trimmed it square smeared it with lube and re-fitted, will check prices and if not too expensive will treat it to a new one   :thumbup
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #6 on: 06 July 2020, 09:45:07 AM »
chain guide at WEMOTO.....................£60     :eek :eek :eek :eek


i`ll take it off,stick a flat piece of plastic on and see what difference it makes...

One, is never going to be enough.....

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #7 on: 06 July 2020, 11:52:11 AM »
They like around 45mm but that's max slack with a new chain and that's pulling/pushing on the chain and forget using the marks on the swingarm, measure from the centre of the wheel spindle to the edge of the swingarm where the drive chain puller plate interfaces with the swingarm.  They're also very sensitive to sprocket/wheel alignment, I'd also check the front sprocket lay shaft bearing and the rear wheel hub bearing and possibly the rear wheel bearings.

If you still can't get it correct check the swingarm bearings.       
Later

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #8 on: 06 July 2020, 12:08:04 PM »
cheers GNASHER, got about 37mm at the moment, all good things to check which i will but trying to sort a oil leak on the thou at the moment,only a weep but its dripping on the exhaust collector box, coming from the seal around the water pump pipe behind the front sprocket,all being well i`ll be back on the 600 later today/ tomorrow morning...thanks for all your replies foccers  :thumbup
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #9 on: 08 July 2020, 04:57:11 PM »
update....posted my last post in the wrong thread  :o ...stripped the 600 down again checking everything as i go,everything fine except the front sprocket,turns too easily,rumbles and has a little sideways movement, a focu golden star goes to GNASHER for his prediction of "lay shaft bearing"...
which i think is an engine casing split job  :\ ...although iam on furlough for 4 weeks ive got loads on at the moment so ive bolted it back together and put the cover on...


new bearing is £105 + gaskets etc ...been thinking of other options and have found another engine going stupid cheap,so was thinking of swapping to keep the bike running and rebuilding the engine when i have the time..with my thou playing up that leaves me bikeless......dont like that  :'(
« Last Edit: 16 July 2020, 05:50:57 PM by red98 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #10 on: 08 July 2020, 05:16:45 PM »
Mate I was afraid it would turn out to be the lay shaft bearing :( over tight chain is the main cause of these failing. 

Yep cases need splitting and don't forget about the circlip, these often wear too, hopefully the circlip rebates not and it's a good idea to change the oil seal too.   
« Last Edit: 10 July 2020, 12:20:00 PM by Gnasher »
Later

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #11 on: 08 July 2020, 06:05:05 PM »
yes...bad news for the boxeye, i`ll see if i can find the service record out and post the comment, its had a small whine since i bought it but thought it normal (my first fazer), 9000 miles when bought, now just short of 50000, the clues were there  ;) ...still a great bike and a keeper, yes i have to spend a few quid and fair bit of time but worth it in the end...
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #12 on: 08 July 2020, 06:19:39 PM »

yes...bad news for the boxeye, i`ll see if i can find the service record out and post the comment, its had a small whine since i bought it but thought it normal (my first fazer), 9000 miles when bought, now just short of 50000, the clues were there  ;)  ...still a great bike and a keeper, yes i have to spend a few quid and fair bit of time but worth it in the end...











parts about £120 + gaskets,oil etc....not too bad.
« Last Edit: 08 July 2020, 07:16:47 PM by BBROWN1664 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #13 on: 13 July 2020, 01:00:15 PM »
after yesterdays failed attempt to get to Cornwall i was not going to waste the rest of the day, went to see a complete engine that was for sale on ebay.....
came from a cat B write-off seller had pictures and it did not look too bad, mileage 44,000, with service history,engine out of the bike so cant hear it running,has compression,gears select,no broken studs and no play in the lay shaft bearing  :thumbup ...looks a little scruffy as has see a few winters , £200 including carbs and coils...


the plan is to fit the engine to keep the bike on the road and rebuild the original when i get time...will try and start the new engine before fitting to make sure its OK...
« Last Edit: 13 July 2020, 01:04:01 PM by red98 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

Trebus

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #14 on: 13 July 2020, 01:11:02 PM »
Sounds like a good deal to me.

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #15 on: 13 July 2020, 01:26:46 PM »
hi TREBUS......a bit of a gamble buying an engine you cant hear running, it was local and the seller was a nice bloke, if it turns out bad i could sell the carbs,coils,starter motor, generator etc and get a fair bit of my money back, if its a goodun i`ll run it till i get mine sorted and sell it while its still in the bike so people can hear it running...
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #16 on: 16 July 2020, 06:08:54 PM »
whilst i wait for a gasket for the mighty thou i thought i would take a look at the replacement engine for the 600,wired the starter motor up to a battery and it turns over well with good compression, going to sit the new engine on the floor next to the bike, extend all wiring from bike to new engine and use the bikes ecu etc  to start the replacement engine, sounds good  ;) ...got an old wiring loom in the shed,stripped it and took coil and tps wiring and fitted to new engine,generator wiring was different so loom must be from a 2000> bike, will fit gen from bike to new engine,wiring looks long enough without having to extend it,got a remote fuel tank and a spare battery which i will connect with jump leads,probably will need a earth lead linking both engines...
not my favourite subject wiring/sparks but i`ll give it a go...and who knows i might learn something  :lol
   
« Last Edit: 16 July 2020, 06:10:00 PM by red98 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,518
  • 9 3/4 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #17 on: 16 July 2020, 06:34:05 PM »
 :lol
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #18 on: 16 July 2020, 06:37:27 PM »
Don't for get to secure it, in a wood frame knocked up out a a pallet works well and the cooling system, if you want to run it for more than a few mins.    ;) :)
Later

Trebus

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #19 on: 16 July 2020, 07:40:25 PM »
Probably worth checking valve clearances while the engine is on the bench. Good luck and hope you’re up and running again soon

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #20 on: 16 July 2020, 07:44:21 PM »
hi GNASHER...yes,was going to make a wooden frame as i also have some spare downpipes and a standard can, be nice and quiet so i can hear the inner workings and also wont annoy the neighbours  ;) ...only be a short run so i wont bother with rad/coolant, just want to make sure its a goodun before i swap...




FAZERSHARP...think you have hit the nail on the head there  :lol :lol


TREBUS...good thinking  :thumbup ...if alls good it will get a good clean and possibly a paint before it goes in...


All being well the mighty thou should be running on Saturday, iam itching to get out so it will slow progress on the boxeye ...
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #21 on: 21 July 2020, 12:17:44 PM »
" hows she doing DOC, is she going to live" ?...............................         
« Last Edit: 21 July 2020, 12:18:28 PM by red98 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #22 on: 21 July 2020, 07:08:47 PM »
yesssssss...she lives  :) .....took a bit of churning over but it runs, using the carbs and coils that came with the engine, sticky float valves on two cylinders and one seized drain screw.


 two float valves,seats and a good float bowl from my spares pile got her running smoothly with just a prod of the starter, my spare down pipes are blowing and i dont have a gasket between the down pipes and can, add to that the induction roar as i dont have a spare air box i cant hear the engine  :lol


might repair the down pipes and make a new gasket but the air box is going to be tricky  ...


anyway, happy its a runner and i have not wasted my money  :)
One, is never going to be enough.....

Trebus

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #23 on: 21 July 2020, 08:18:08 PM »
Nice one, good outcome 👍🏻

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #24 on: 21 July 2020, 08:32:50 PM »
Nice one  :)  Do a compression check and while it's out of the bike check the cam clearances, much easier to do while it's out of the bike, mate ;)
Later