Date: 27-01-21  Time: 00:15 AM

Author Topic: steam powered boxeye ?  (Read 2403 times)

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #25 on: 21 July 2020, 09:04:06 PM »
cheers foccers  :thumbup .....compression test next job  ;) ,then sort the exhaust out so i can hear the engine,if all good ...valves,de-grease,paint,proper carb clean,oil,filter,plugs and anything else you lot can think of  :lol


on "grumpy grampy" duties tomorrow as its my grand daughters birthday, so no fazer fettling, will do a compression test on Thursday and post results...
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #26 on: 23 July 2020, 10:48:21 AM »
compression test this morning....


1.......150   psi
2.......135   psi
3.......135   psi
4.......137   psi




haynes manual quotes min-170 max-225 psi... so i`am way off that, no1 higher than the others but i think within 10%  ish is ok....looking back at my "stuttering" thread after i reground the valves i was getting ave 135 psi, bores perfect and runs perfect,even allowing for a bit of wear (49000 miles on original
 engine) iam still short of haynes figures.......thinking 135 is good and perhaps the haynes figures are a little high....


using the screwdrive trick i can hear one noisy valve...so thats the next job...
« Last Edit: 23 July 2020, 11:13:55 AM by red98 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #27 on: 23 July 2020, 11:56:25 AM »
Depending how/where the engine has been stored and for long, it's possible the compression ring/s have sized in the piston groves.  135 is low but the fact they're all pretty much the same it's a very good chance it the above mentioned. 

To sort this you've got 3 options, 1 just run the engine and fingers crossed they'll free themselves, 2 add some diesel/paraffin let it soak for a day or two then run the engine, 3 strip it, while you're in there lap the valves.     
Later

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #28 on: 23 July 2020, 01:09:54 PM »
morning GNASHER...thinking the same on the rings  :thumbup ...bikes been stored for 2 ish years in a garden shed,first job i did when i got it home was to squirt some derv/paraffin down the bores and turned it over on the crank a couple of times then left it, think i need to source a radiator and run it up to temp and leave it running for a while. lapping the valves is another great suggestion but i dont really want to spend too much on this engine , i`ll do a valve check, oil/filter and new plugs, plumb in a rad and run it and then do another compression test...if all`s good and i see some improvement i`ll do the swap, could be in there some time while i sort the original engine,if it performs well i`ll lap the valves when i`ve swapped back and sell it on...


going back to my "stuttering thread" a while after lapping the valves and doing a compression test (135 psi ) i had it on the dyno, 1 or 2 bhp down on claimed power when new...makes me question Haynes figures...
One, is never going to be enough.....

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #29 on: 23 July 2020, 01:34:40 PM »
If you only got that small drop in power at 135, and these readings are also mostly 135.  I'd say that's pointing towards your gauge or how you're doing it or both, when was the last time if ever was the gauge calibrated?
Later

limax2

  • Creep.
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,892
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #30 on: 23 July 2020, 01:39:25 PM »

going back to my "stuttering thread" a while after lapping the valves and doing a compression test (135 psi ) i had it on the dyno, 1 or 2 bhp down on claimed power when new...makes me question Haynes figures...
Just a thought of mine. If you are using a screw in tester with an adapter between the compression tester (where the non-return valve is) and the plug hole, then the extra volume of air space in the adapter effectively lowers the compression ratio and thus the gauge shows a lower reading. I can't remember how much it was with the adapter I was using but it was significant.
If you felt so inclined you could do the calculation using Boyle's Law of P1 x V1 = P2 x V2 to see the theoretical difference between with and without the adapter.  Unusually for me I didn't record the figures when I did the test but I remember the calculation put my mind at rest.

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #31 on: 23 July 2020, 01:50:26 PM »
yes its a screw in tester with an adapter, never had it calibrated so can only use it as a guide, could try it on the thou or cage and see how the figures compare....good points from both of you ,thanks for your repiy`s / input    :thumbup
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #32 on: 25 July 2020, 01:13:10 PM »
mmmmm...not got round to testing my compression tester yet,a good point from GNASHER about it being correct, got a leak on the cage`s rocker cover so whilst i`am sorting that i will try the tester and compare figures...


what i have done this morning is check the valve clearances on the replacement engine....




valve clearances when cold.........intake   0.11-0.20     exhaust   0.21-0.30




               inlet            exhaust


1             0.15              0.25
               0.15              0.25
2             0.14              0.25
               0.15              0.25
3             0.11              0.25
               0.11              0.25
4             0.15              0.21
               0.15              0.16




3 border line, 1 out of spec....i`ll do no 4 exhaust and leave the others, all i need to do is find my spare shims ...



no horrors when i lifted the valve cover, all nice and clean and no sign of wear on the cam lobes  :thumbup
« Last Edit: 25 July 2020, 01:14:36 PM by red98 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #33 on: 27 July 2020, 10:51:36 AM »
lifted the exhaust cam out this morning, ive got 2 x 1.72 mm shims on no 4 cylinder,wemoto  sell in  shims in 0.05 incrrements so if i fit a 1.65 and 1.70 that should give me a clearance of 0.23 on both valves,found my shims but not the right sizes...


shopping list


2 x valve shims
4 x spark plugs
oil filter
oil


then i think i`ll paint the block and head to tidy things up a bit...
« Last Edit: 27 July 2020, 10:53:45 AM by red98 »
One, is never going to be enough.....

robbo

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,172
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - Mk 1 Speed Triple
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #34 on: 27 July 2020, 11:24:22 AM »
Good job :thumbup . Soooooooooo much easier, with the engine out of the bike. Almost looks like a pleasant job. I did say almost :lol .

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #35 on: 27 July 2020, 11:33:31 AM »
Good job :thumbup . Soooooooooo much easier, with the engine out of the bike. Almost looks like a pleasant job. I did say almost :lol .


On some bikes, it's actually easier and faster to remove the engine rather than work around the bike in the frame  ;) :)
Later

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #36 on: 27 July 2020, 11:37:51 AM »
yes ,very easy to see what your doing, after laying on the floor for far too long sorting out the thou`s water/oil pump i`am happy to sit down in comfort and tinker away... :thumbup
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #37 on: 27 July 2020, 11:48:49 AM »
thinking way ahead now...removing the engine without struggling,the last fazer engine i removed was from a bike i was breaking,left the engine till last,put what was left of the bike on it side removed the engine mounting bolts and lifted the frame off...that was easy but cant do that this time so was thinking of a lifting beam attached to a trolley jack..bit like a small , one forked forklift, will need support on the other end but i do have a winch on a large frame in the garage which i lift car engines out with....just a crazy idea but working on my own i got to make things easy...i can just about lift the engine on its own but wont be able to lift it out of the frame...
One, is never going to be enough.....

HarryHornby

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,661
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #38 on: 28 July 2020, 06:42:29 AM »
Blimey, Paul, just catching up on this thread!  Your mechanical ability and patience blows me away! Good luck with the rebuild.  Gonna have to drop mine round to you one day for some mechanical love  :rollin


Will watch this thread with interest.
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it buys beer, and that helps!

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #39 on: 28 July 2020, 09:17:28 AM »
HARRY.....good to see you posting, still got your FAZER ?


thanks for the kind comments and it pleases me that you find my ramblings interesting, its threads like this that i find helpful,informative,entertaining,amusing and interesting...


thats not why i post this though,its helpful to me as i can go back and read my own posts and see where i have got to...my memory is foccin terrible     :\   :lol




now, where did i get too........
One, is never going to be enough.....

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #40 on: 28 July 2020, 09:27:12 AM »
Mate getting the engine out on you're own is really not an option without major mucking about, possible damage, a lot of effort to say nothing of a lost finger or two  :eek , unless you got a engine hoist?  Use the hoist to lift/swing the engine out of the frame and then up onto a bench, even with a hoist it's a faff on your own without a the right hoist.  The easiest way without a hoist is get someone to help lift the engine up and out  ;) 
Later

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #41 on: 28 July 2020, 09:47:38 AM »
morning GNASHER....yep,know what you mean mate...ive got a wire ratchet hoist and a large A frame that runs the width of the garage,with that and the trolley jack with a home made beam that will slide in where the carbs are close to the cylinder block/gearbox and strapped close to the engine so there is no/little slack, i`am hoping that will do the job...will mock something up and post a picture, will try lifting the replacement engine first to see if it works and to get the angle of lift correct...


also got one of those bike movers,like a skate board that the centre stand fits on so you can push the bike sideways...jack the engine up,push bike sideways,lower engine to floor...easy to type that  :lol
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #42 on: 28 July 2020, 10:07:53 AM »
just ordered a load of bits...


2 valve shims
4 spark plugs
oil filter
rotary wire brushes
simoniz satin black tough engine paint


will buy the oil locally...


still not checked the compression tester and i need to work out how iam going to remove the engine without damaging anything,oh,and find a cheap rad so i can run the engine up to temp after i have  swapped the shims...
 today however iam going to check the thou over as all being well i will be out tomorrow for the first real ride this year  :thumbup
One, is never going to be enough.....

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,217
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #43 on: 28 July 2020, 10:34:39 AM »
Run extension hoses from the bikes rad or go for waste water i.e. header tank constant fill and let the water flow out, bit like running up an outboard engine.  The compression gauge, try a local bus garage or lorry shop they have compressed air testers for air brakes and they can usually test gauges.   
Later

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #44 on: 28 July 2020, 11:18:03 AM »
yeh,dont really want to buy a rad..waste water would be easiest ...good tip about the compression gauge   :thumbup
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #45 on: 28 July 2020, 11:21:43 AM »
foc....another ebayer who does not have stock of advertised items  :wall
One, is never going to be enough.....

HarryHornby

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,661
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #46 on: 28 July 2020, 07:12:13 PM »
HARRY.....good to see you posting, still got your FAZER ?


thanks for the kind comments and it pleases me that you find my ramblings interesting, its threads like this that i find helpful,informative,entertaining,amusing and interesting...


thats not why i post this though,its helpful to me as i can go back and read my own posts and see where i have got to...my memory is foccin terrible     :\   :lol




now, where did i get too........


Yep, still got my Fazer, even if I could afford another bike, I really don't want another bike.  Still love my fazer.  She needs a replacement hugger at the mo, the old one has broken at the fixing points.  Still keep looking out for a better/bargain rear shock.


We must have a LOFO meet this year, even if just for a bacon butty and a cuppa somewhere.
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it buys beer, and that helps!

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #47 on: 28 July 2020, 07:56:36 PM »
yep........need to wake up the "bunch from kent"    :lol
One, is never going to be enough.....

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,428
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #48 on: 28 July 2020, 07:57:29 PM »
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
One, is never going to be enough.....

dazza

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,413
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - MT10
    • View Profile
Re: steam powered boxeye ?
« Reply #49 on: 28 July 2020, 09:02:42 PM »
yep........need to wake up the "bunch from kent"    :lol


 :z :z :z
Loomies
 :z :z :z
« Last Edit: 28 July 2020, 09:17:51 PM by dazza »