Author Topic: clutch wrench... (Read 4231 times)

anutz · « **on:** 21 September 2016, 07:27:38 pm »

do i need this to remove the clutch....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-and-Scooter-Universal-Clutch-Holder-Flywheel-Holder-/190824505489?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

need to remove the clutch to get the drive chain for the oil pump loose enough to re-install......

have the plates out etc, and now stopped...

unless any clever ideas how to hold the rotating bits while i take off the nut

unfazed · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 September 2016, 08:13:47 pm »

That is what I use, never failed me yet

Replace the tab washer when putting it back together

Why are you doing this? Oil Pump and chain rarely give trouble

anutz · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 September 2016, 08:39:44 pm »

had that coolant leak out of the sump drain hole, which was due to issues with the water pump, which needed removing...

i replaced the water seal and o-rings and ready to whack it back in, but there is simply no slack on the chain for me to get the pump in properly without causing damage...tried for an hour today...

Looked at the Haynes manual, and it shows the clutch out so that the chain that drives the oil/water pump sprocket can then have enough slack to re-fit...

IF there is a way to do it without getting the clutch totally out it would be good..

so far have just got the clutch plates out so not distrubed owt else...

Anutz!

unfazed · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 September 2016, 09:16:45 pm »

Did you have the complete Water and Oil pump out???

anutz · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 September 2016, 09:36:26 pm »

yep, so have had the sump off, then the correct bolts and the oil/water pump out....

took it to bits and replaced the O-ring and mechanical seals...nightmare of a job to be honest but now ready to install again and cannot for the life of me get the sprocket engaged

anutz · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 September 2016, 09:38:20 pm »

remember....

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,20947.0.html

Thats why i been asking for parts

The haynes manual said remove the clutch as part of the process, i did not bother as i could not see why, it came out ok, but maybe going back in is where you need to be able to disengage the chain from the clutch end to give you some slack you cannot get otherwise...

unfazed · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 September 2016, 10:09:31 pm »

Forgot that, pump at an angle chain on with some one rotating the engine very slowly while straightening the pump into position.????

It worked on an R1, but have not done one on the fazer. They have the same bottom end and pumps

anutz · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 September 2016, 03:07:57 am »

will give it a bash and let u know...

anutz · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 September 2016, 12:43:32 pm »

So could not get it down as you suggested, probably lack of skillz

Anyway, clutch wrench arrived, and it was a doddle to get the basket and other gubbins out...

Disengaged the chain off the sprocket as you can see in these pics, loads of room now...

Ordered a new tab washer so need to be patient now.....

unfazed · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 September 2016, 11:51:37 am »

anutz · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 September 2016, 01:42:22 pm »

so i have fitted it all back in aside from torquing the nut down yet, as i have a questions...

the Service Guide says to make sure notches in the back of the clutch line up with the divets in the sprocket carrier for the water pump....

which ever way i look at it, they dont seem to line up, so i just put the clutch in and kept rotating it till the teeth on the large outer ring meshed flush with those off the engine cog at the bottom right

have i missed somete, its all flush and sound?

anutz · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 September 2016, 01:59:52 pm »

checked haynes manual and it looks identical so must be ok else would not have meshed ok....on we go...

also be wary the service manual states 2 different torques for the clutch boss bolt, 90NM vs 70NM.

anutz · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 September 2016, 09:56:18 am »

lookking at the clutch plates now, most seem ok but one looks like its a little discolored....is this something to replace, and do i need to do the whole set i.e. metal and friction plates

47000 mile bike and not aware it has been changed before now in service notes i have from its previous owner.

unfazed · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 September 2016, 02:05:36 pm »

Looks fine, I would reuse it.

Dudeofrude · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 September 2016, 03:12:15 pm »

If your that deep into it and it's not too expensive then may as well replace what you can? Least you know it's not going to need doing again

anutz · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 September 2016, 04:05:08 pm »

ok so back to a more important issue, will figure out the plates later...

the clutch housing, is supposed to locate it tabs into the sprocket that drives the water/oil pump...

I have tried numerous times to get this right and have had the gears all flush,but when i turn crank over, the clutch housing moves, but no movement from the chain that drives the oil/water pump...

It must not be seated but i cannot see how it is not...???

does this make sense?

anutz · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 September 2016, 04:44:32 pm »

ok figured it out

on to the next question, 70 or 90NM torque for the bolt, Service Manual shows both, think its 90Nm as thats in the table and one diagram

unfazed · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 September 2016, 12:05:52 am »

Go on tell us what was it you figured out

tommyardin · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 September 2016, 07:16:19 am »

Yeah! anutz tell us what you figured out re: the clutch basket lining up and meshing as it might save us lesser mortals a shed load of time and effort if we have to go down the same route.

anutz · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 September 2016, 07:48:16 am »

So...

The tabs on the back of the clutch housing are basically a circle with 4 pieces missing at equal distances around the circumference.

The area this circle or 4 tabs that are each part of a circle locates into on the sprocket carrier, only has what appears room for 2 "slots" in the set of tabs to mesh with it, so i could not understand how 4 would..

Used my gauges and measured the diameters and the tabs fit inside the carriers "grooves" so only 2 of them need to line up and mesh...

What i would say is if you are doing this, get the engine cranking over manually so you can 100% check the oil/water pump sprocket is being driven properly

Also you can take out the start motor easily and use your finger to turn the gear that meshes with the starter clutch if needed to check that is lined up, but the above check with turning the engine over if the best one for me...

Now, 70 or 90NM, still need to decide the bolt torque!

anutz · « **Reply #20 on:** 26 September 2016, 06:11:04 pm »

anyone tell me what they torqued theres to if they did it 70NM or 90NM

will probs just do 80 later tonight otherwise

Flooky · « **Reply #21 on:** 26 September 2016, 06:30:01 pm »

Dunno if this helps, but I just looked in the official dealer workshop manual that I got for the 1998 R1, ( same clutch I think ) and it says 70nm.

anutz · « **Reply #22 on:** 26 September 2016, 06:48:27 pm »

thanks Flooky....will see what others may post till 8 ish then off to do the job.....it may well be i stick with 70, rather than risk 90 and tear things up....that would be a nightmare

unfazed · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 September 2016, 07:00:34 pm »

I would go 70Nm, just did a check on a few bike that use the same nut in the clutch and they are all 70Nm.

You did also say it was easy enough to open. 90Nm would not have been easy to open.

Very scientific

anutz · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 September 2016, 07:25:18 pm »

Quote from: unfazed on 26 September 2016, 07:00:34 pm

I would go 70Nm, just did a check on a few bike that use the same nut in the clutch and they are all 70Nm.

You did also say it was easy enough to open. 90Nm would not have been easy to open.

Very scientific

yes, was not hard to get off, mainly as it was not rusted up or siezed with locking compound, and the torque wrench was massive

I will go with 70Nm, if the R1 only needs that and they are the same bottom ends etc it suits me...!!!!

Thanks all for input...almost got this back together now just waiting for my rad from China and will post plenty of pics etc

Anutz!