Charging system issues

[BorisTheThird]

My bikes broken
 
 its something to do with charging the battery.
 
 if i start the bike and then disconnect the battery it cuts out.
 
 tested the resistance of the alternator coils and all three are reading at 0.6 ohms (the spec is 3.36 - 4.4 ohms). this is out of spec, though all three are evenly so. There is no continuity to earth.
 
 Mr Haynes says i cant test the rectifier, i can either swap it for a known good one or take it to a yam dealer to do it.
 
 
 any ideas what to do next?

[CRH]

Why on earth would you disconnect the battery with the engine running in the first place?

[BorisTheThird]

i had taken the battery out to charge, and hooked it up to a 12v power supply

[CRH]

ime no electrical wizard but ive always been under the impression that you should never disconnect a battery whilst engine running can do all sorts of damage?...all you got to do is leave in situ and connect a meter across the batt terminals and see what it reads both on idle then when its reved to 3 t 4thou it should be approx 14.2 + at about 4thou...little less with lights etc loaded up!!...unfazed or fazerider will give you the correct figures

[BorisTheThird]

ime no electrical wizard but ive always been under the impression that you should never disconnect a battery whilst engine running can do all sorts of damage?...all you got to do is leave in situ and connect a meter across the batt terminals and see what it reads both on idle then when its reved to 3 t 4thou it should be approx 14.2 + at about 4thou...little less with lights etc loaded up!!...unfazed or fazerider will give you the correct figures

The 12v supply was a battery charger, so giving out 13v anyway, wanted to see what the fazer is giving though.

[CRH]

ime no electrical wizard but ive always been under the impression that you should never disconnect a battery whilst engine running can do all sorts of damage?...all you got to do is leave in situ and connect a meter across the batt terminals and see what it reads both on idle then when its reved to 3 t 4thou it should be approx 14.2 + at about 4thou...little less with lights etc loaded up!!...unfazed or fazerider will give you the correct figures

The 12v supply was a battery charger, so giving out 13v anyway, wanted to see what the fazer is giving though.

....the only reading you can get from your fazer is through your battery?..that will show what your charging system is doing??...so the battery as ...got...to be connected ......

[BorisTheThird]

when the bike is giving out the voltege, it will give the PD across the battery connectors, weather there is a battery there or not

[CRH]

when the bike is giving out the voltege, it will give the PD across the battery connectors, weather there is a battery there or not

.....well?...think this one is for the lecy geniuses on here either ...unfazed or fazerider"...ime sure they will help you out?

[His Dudeness]

If it was me I'd put the battery back in and push or jump start the bike. Then hook up the meter  and check if the bike is charging the battery or not.

[CRH]

If it was me I'd put the battery back in and push or jump start the bike. Then hook up the meter  and check if the bike is charging the battery or not.

....+2...and he,s from ireland!! ...come on dude" am waiting for it??

[His Dudeness]

 

[Andy FZS]

Off the top of my head only a dynamo will generate without haveing a voltage applied to it and most if not all charging systems these days are alternators which require a battery connected to work or have I totally missed the point?
Andy

[CRH]

Off the top of my head only a dynamo will generate without haveing a voltage applied to it and most if not all charging systems these days are alternators which require a battery connected to work or have I totally missed the point?
Andy

...thats what i think too andy!!...and ime sure you should not disconnect whilst engine running ....ime also thinking if the rectifier wasnt fkd before?...it may be now!!!!!!...ime sure the unfazed wizard will be along shortly to put us right?

[CRH]

.....What?...not even a f.ck off wanker? ......

[BorisTheThird]

stuck the battery back in
bike off - 12.2v
when the bike was started it started about the same and dropped as the rpm increased.

this implies the charging is not working, stator tested correctly - going to try fitting a friend's rectifier tomorrow.
not going to try taking more readings tonight neighbours are getting home and my exhaust is a bit holey.

cheers peeps

[BorisTheThird]

Off the top of my head only a dynamo will generate without haveing a voltage applied to it and most if not all charging systems these days are alternators which require a battery connected to work or have I totally missed the point?
Andy

the alternator is just a coil (or three) of wire with a magnet spinning alongside it. a magnetic field moving across a conductor will induce a current in that coil.

Off the top of my head only a dynamo will generate without haveing a voltage applied to it and most if not all charging systems these days are alternators which require a battery connected to work or have I totally missed the point?
Andy

...thats what i think too andy!!...and ime sure you should not disconnect whilst engine running ....ime also thinking if the rectifier wasnt fkd before?...it may be now!!!!!!...ime sure the unfazed wizard will be along shortly to put us right?

would turning the ignition off not essentially do the same - causing a brake in the circuit.

[His Dudeness]

.....What?...not even a f.ck off wanker? ......

Nah not my style. Have you ever been to Ireland? You seem to have a keen interest in the place

[CRH]

stuck the battery back in
bike off - 12.2v
when the bike was started it started about the same and dropped as the rpm increased.

this implies the charging is not working, stator tested correctly - going to try fitting a friend's rectifier tomorrow.
not going to try taking more readings tonight neighbours are getting home and my exhaust is a bit holey.

cheers peeps

....if it does turn out your rectifier is goosed i have a spare i will let you have cheap?...pm me if you need it ..clive.

[CRH]

.....What?...not even a f.ck off wanker? ......

Nah not my style. Have you ever been to Ireland? You seem to have a keen interest in the place

....yes matey southern ireland"..years ago lovely place and people ...met a irish girl there was together 8yrs till she got killed on a bike!!..over here in england ......

[His Dudeness]

Sorry to hear that. You should come back. There's some great biking roads here

[BorisTheThird]

stuck the battery back in
bike off - 12.2v
when the bike was started it started about the same and dropped as the rpm increased.

this implies the charging is not working, stator tested correctly - going to try fitting a friend's rectifier tomorrow.
not going to try taking more readings tonight neighbours are getting home and my exhaust is a bit holey.

cheers peeps

....if it does turn out your rectifier is goosed i have a spare i will let you have cheap?...pm me if you need it ..clive.

Cheers, ill let you know

[CRH]

Sorry to hear that. You should come back. There's some great biking roads here

....yes may do one day?....she came from a place called templmore near i think it was tipperary? do you know it?...think it was called that?..it was nearly 30yr ago

[His Dudeness]

Yeah that's in Tipperary.

[69oldskool]

ime no electrical wizard but ive always been under the impression that you should never disconnect a battery whilst engine running can do all sorts of damage?...all you got to do is leave in situ and connect a meter across the batt terminals and see what it reads both on idle then when its reved to 3 t 4thou it should be approx 14.2 + at about 4thou...little less with lights etc loaded up!!...unfazed or fazerider will give you the correct figures

Yep a very bad idea disconnecting battery while engine running,if you have an alternator.
 Whilst you may well get away with it at tickover (if you're lucky), there's a good chance of blowing the regulator as you've excess power with nowhere to go without a battery to soak it up.... & if your regulator goes( without a battery as well!) you're in with a really good chance of screwing up something expensive as the charging voltage skyrockets.
 
Please keep the battery connected 
 
Carefully Check ALL charging circuit connectors are clean & not loose before you go any further.... will save unecessary expense in replacing good parts, don't ask how i know that 

[unfazed]

 Thanks for the vote of confidence Foccers
Under no circumstances should you remove the battery with the engines running on alternator based systems, especially on bikes (or cars) with ECUs and Electronic Regulators.  The systems are not designed to run without the battery. The fazer has an ECU and an electronic rectifier/regulator which is normally called the Regulator. Fazer Alternators are 3 phase Alternating Current (AC) devices and the AC is converted by the Rectifier to direct current (DC) and the Regulator controls the DC output based on the battery condition and electrical load.You will most likely fry the Regulator and after frying that you are likely to fry the ECU and then the Alternator. Lucky for you the bike stopped and the worst you may have done is fry the Rectifier/Regulator unless you have a faulty alternator, in which case you are lucky.Disconnect the plug from the regulator and the resistance between the white wire connectors should be between 0.36 to 0.44 Ohms. (Don't know where you got you info. from)  There should be no reading from the white wire connectors to the frame (earth). If the resistance is higher the output will be lower and if there is continuity to earth output will be lower again.Your reading is on the high side but could be from a bad connection between the meter and the connectors.The resistance readings on their own are not enough to prove the alternator is good. You could have insulation break down when under load or when hot. Set the meter to AC and with everything connected start the bike and check the voltage between the white wires; (push the meter leads (carefully) into the back of the plug) it should read around 18 to 20 volts AC. With the engine running at tick over the voltage across the battery should read over 12v and go up to an absolute maximum of 14.4 when the engine is revved over 5000 revs. If the voltage does not increase and you have 19 to 20v AC from the alternator then the regulator is faulty.