After doing a bunch of work on my FZ6, yesterday I took it for a ride around the block and everything was working.
I got home, picked up some stuff, tried to start it and... nothing
I switch on the ignition, press the starter and I can hear the relay click, but it won't turn over. I have had this problem before and usually if I put the side stand down and flick it back up so it gives the bike a jolt, that sorts it out (or, switching it off and switching it back on again...!)
But none of these are working now, however if I bump start it, it runs fine.
The side stand switch and clutch switch seem fine and the neutral light on the instruments comes on.
I wanted to check the neutral switch as well, but I can't actually find it! The Haynes manual says it's "on the back of the engine", but the accompanying picture is useless and I can't identify any of the components in it to figure out where the switch is supposed to be
Can anyone suggest a solution or, at least, tell me where the neutral switch actually is (preferably with a useful picture!) so I can eliminate that? If the problem is none of the above, I may have to try removing the starter motor and checking that out...
If your side stand switch has been playing up before start there, test the switch by pushing the switch in the live should be cut on the return, if not loop the switch out e.g. disconnect it and loop the connection, does it start?
Then the same with the clutch, does it start?
The neutral switch the same only it's a little plunger, located literally at the back of the gear box casing, it's the only electrical connection in that area.
If all the above are fine, check the battery, anything less the 12.6 it's needs a charge, once charged and you've started the bike check the voltage across the battery with the engine running, if less than 13, rev it if you get no increase, there's a problem with the charging system. If you get 13 and an increase in voltage, charging is fine, battery is likely issues. If the problem happens again it's a naff battery not holding charge.
(03-07-20, 06:17 PM)Gnasher link Wrote: If your side stand switch has been playing up before start there, test the switch by pushing the switch in the live should be cut on the return, if not loop the switch out e.g. disconnect it and loop the connection, does it start?
Then the same with the clutch, does it start?
I've tried that on both of them, no luck.
Quote:The neutral switch the same only it's a little plunger, located literally at the back of the gear box casing, it's the only electrical connection in that area.
Can you post a pic? I have tried looking, but I cannot figure where the foc it's supposed to be
Quote:If all the above are fine, check the battery,
The battery is fine, the relay latches (I don't get the dreaded buzz when there's not enough power to hold it)
I'm just wondering whether the starter motor itself is actually getting stuck and flicking the side stand was just enough to jog it from a "stuck" position to allow it to turn over.
I’d try checking the 12v at the starter motor when pressing the switch and work back from there. If you get 12v then it points to the starter motor, if not then measure at the relay.
Not sure on the FZ6 but most starter relays have a built in fuse and they can get corroded.
So, I decide that, this morning, once I've sorted out the starter problem, I'll get on with installing the new fork springs.
Switch on the engine, press the starter... Error code 12
After a lot of faff and hassle checking out the Crank Shaft Position Sensor (and worrying that my installation of the 4 degree ignition advancer might have screwed something up) and then checking the link to the ECU plugs, I couldn't get the bike to crank, but after half a dozen attempts, I managed to bump start it, so I have the feeling that actually this is actually a duff battery problem.
I'm buying a Drop Tester from Amazon (which is only £18 and should arrive in the next day or two) and, hopefully, that will clear things up...
I checked my receipts (I keep them all for bike stuff) and realised that I actually installed the battery back in 2014, so it's no wonder it's a bit dodgy now!
Still, it shows that if you treat it right (it's on the Optimate whenever the bike is in the shed) you can greatly improve a battery's life :thumbup
(03-07-20, 06:17 PM)Gnasher link Wrote: If all the above are fine, check the battery, anything less the 12.6 it's needs a charge, once charged and you've started the bike check the voltage across the battery with the engine running, if less than 13, rev it if you get no increase, there's a problem with the charging system. If you get 13 and an increase in voltage, charging is fine, battery is likely issues. If the problem happens again it's a naff battery not holding charge.
The good news is that the battery is ok. It gives about 13.5v under no load and drops down, but stays in the "green" OK zone under load.
The bad news is also that the battery is ok, so something else must be screwed up...
I've been looking elsewhere for people with the same Fault Code 12 and two possibilities that have popped up are a faulty starter relay and a faulty starter motor.
I'm going to check the relay tomorrow and, if not, try to find a way to test the starter without having to take it out and strip it.
Given, however, that one of my "fixes" was to flick the side-stand up and let it bang against the stop, it does suggest that maybe the starter is getting stuck or one of the brushes has failed.
The bike still runs if I bump start it, so hopefully that means the ECU isn't fried!
Meanwhile, I've still got to install the other Fork Spring and I need the bike by next Sunday as there's a Market in Brighton I'm going to, so it may be push starts at both ends...
Oh and, because I thought it was the Battery, I've already ordered a new one, but as long as I keep that one in good condition, I'll have a spare when the present one eventually fails.
Quick way to test the relay/starter quandary is to bridge the large terminals on the relay (I use a screwdriver or similar)
Turn on the ignition, short the relay. If it turns it's the relay if it doesn't it's the starter but most likely will be the relay.
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07-07-20, 02:03 AM (This post was last modified: 07-07-20, 02:40 AM by Grahamm.)
(06-07-20, 10:11 PM)celticbiker link Wrote: Quick way to test the relay/starter quandary is to bridge the large terminals on the relay (I use a screwdriver or similar)
Turn on the ignition, short the relay. If it turns it's the relay if it doesn't it's the starter but most likely will be the relay.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not quite sure how to "bridge the large terminals on the relay"
Do I need to unplug the connector? Displace the relay?
If you could give some more details (or pics) I'd be very grateful :thumbup
ADDENDUM I found the picture below, but there seem to be four terminals all of which appear to be the same size!
So which should I short? The top ones? The bottom ones? Left or Right Side...?!
07-07-20, 09:01 AM (This post was last modified: 07-07-20, 09:02 AM by Trebus.)
Do some checks with your meter. Double check but ‘B’ should be battery and 'M' starter motor. Personally I’d check electrical operation rather than short it out. Clean up the terminals and connect it back to the battery but leave the starter motor lead off. Ignition on, in neutral and thumb the starter. You are looking for battery voltage at the starter motor lead.
Then you can check control side of the relay if first test doesn’t work. As in, do you get 12v on the solenoid control when pressing the starter. Essentially all that relay does is move a contact over so the battery voltage reaches the starter motor through the thick leads.
Normally you can hear the solenoid click in operation.
(07-07-20, 09:01 AM)Trebus link Wrote: Do some checks with your meter. Double check but ‘B’ should be battery and 'M' starter motor. Personally I’d check electrical operation rather than short it out. Clean up the terminals and connect it back to the battery but leave the starter motor lead off. Ignition on, in neutral and thumb the starter. You are looking for battery voltage at the starter motor lead.
Then you can check control side of the relay if first test doesn’t work. As in, do you get 12v on the solenoid control when pressing the starter. Essentially all that relay does is move a contact over so the battery voltage reaches the starter motor through the thick leads.
Normally you can hear the solenoid click in operation.
The problem is that I'm getting Error Code 12 as soon as I switch on, so it won't even feed power to the starter, hence why I want to bypass the relay.
I need to find if the starter will turn when it has power applied.
I can bump start it and it runs ok, so the ECU seems fine.
(07-07-20, 09:17 AM)Gnasher link Wrote: [quote author=Grahamm link=topic=26309.msg317504#msg317504 date=1594109602]
Errm, that's not my starter relay, it's a picture I found online...!
:rolleyes
Check yours anyway they've have a habit of corroding and they don't always have rusty terminals.
[/quote]
Ok, I will, but I still want to find out if the starter works.
Here's a pic without the wires at the bottom.
If I short across the B and M terminals, will that trigger the Starter Motor?
