Fazer shows life and directly runs back into its dark hole

[vdbergroel]

[size=1em]Hi all!
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Since a short while I'm also a proud owner of a Fazer 600 from 2003 with about 25.000 miles on the counter. I bought it from someone who didn't run it for a year or two and during the test ride I only had some issues with the gas not going down the moment I let go of the throttle. Easy I thought, man I was so wrong.
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On my way home I noticed (when it was warm) it would make a loud pumping noise when in neutral. Holding the clutch would make it stop. The day thereafter the fun started when I tried to start it: it ran instantly and then died within a split second. Furthermore it wouldn't show any sign of life afterwards. After waiting a long time and trying to start again it would again show some life and die as soon as it started.
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What did I do then:
[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]-I cleaned the airfilter
[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]-changed oil + filter
[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]-put in new sparkplugs (old ones had the proper coffee brown color)
[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]-tanked 'premium' gas and added a bottle of carb cleaner[/color]

[size=1em]Afterwards I started it and when it was on for a split second I gave a lot of gas and it stayed alive. Keeping it at 2-3000 rpm it became warm and would run perfect, also in neutral (noise was still there). I drove 100km and put it away. The day after again the issue occurred, I tried to let it start normally without giving a lot of gas straightaway - and failing to do so would also mean it wouldn't give any sign of life during any attempts thereafter.[/size]

So I went on:
-cleaned the carbs (some dirt, not too much)
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]-replaced the gas filter
[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]-reset the cam chain tensioner
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Unfortunately that did not change anything.
[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]So now every time I try to start it, it starts perfectly, moving up to high (3000-4000) rpm and then dropping fast to 0. Then when I try to start again (with or without gas, with or without choke) it doesn’t start and it sounds as if it is more and more difficult to get around every time I try it. When I put it away for an hour or two the story starts over again.
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Now my question is, any of you got any tips how to pull my fazer out of the rabit hole for good? Thanks![/color]

[BBROWN1664]

do you use the choke to start it?

[vdbergroel]

I sometimes did and sometimes did not

[Disorderlypunk]

when carbs were off did you blow down the fuel line to check it was clear (should blow through if drained bowls of fuel)
try disconnecting fuel line anywhere after fuel filter and turn ignition on - will run for a few seconds then stop (remember a bottle)
(might as well clean contacts on fuel pump)
sounds like a fueling problem

[vdbergroel]

Thanks for your reply disorderly. I was already thinking it would be fuel and checked the tubes. Now that you mention it I did not check the last part, where it connects to the carbs. That would be a good first place to look.

Most likely this will mean I need to remove my carbs again for that. Anyone has any idea I could look at in the meantime that they are off, before I put them back on again? Thanks!

[Gnasher]

This could be several things where one is hiding another.


The bike was left standing for some time, now depending where your are in the world petrol has a nasty habit of separating and leaving deposits in pilot jets it can even gum up main jets and pumps.  Which means as you clean one part another further back starts letting go re-blocking the part you've just cleaned and/or effecting new areas of the fuel system, this will also give you false hope as the bike runs well, then just stops again.

I'd say it's highly likely a fuelling issue, I'd start at the point of where the fuel goes in the bike, try the following: -

1. Open the filler is there a hissing sound of air rushing in when you open the cap?
2. Check fuel strainer.
3. Check fuel filter
4. Check pump flow
5. Re check metering, pilot and main jets

[vdbergroel]

Thanks for the tips Gnasher. Really makes sense and a good addition to my search!
Regarding your filler question, no there is not such a sound. I tried to check for a vacuum by actually trying to let it run with the filler open. Did not change anything.

I will run through it all again, cleaning the carbs (not forgetting the intake), the hoses etc.
There are a few things new for me though. ‘check metering’, what kind of metering do you mean here? Finally what exactly can I check regarding the pump flow to tell if it is good or bad? I looked up that I can check the voltage (I got a voltmeter) but also a test with a pressure gauge that I do not have. Furthermore, how can I check pressure when I can barely get it running (and do you think it is relevant now)?
Thanks!

[Gnasher]

Down load the manual from the site.


It will show you how to run a pump test, the bike isn't running when testing the metering jet is in the crab it's what the float is attached too.

[crickleymal]

I had an issue with mine starting then bogging down and refusing to start for ages. Weirdly it was cured by a new battery. So just for peace of mind try it jump started off a car battery.

[tommyardin]

This could be several things where one is hiding another.


The bike was left standing for some time, now depending where your are in the world petrol has a nasty habit of separating and leaving deposits in pilot jets it can even gum up main jets and pumps.  Which means as you clean one part another further back starts letting go re-blocking the part you've just cleaned and/or effecting new areas of the fuel system, this will also give you false hope as the bike runs well, then just stops again.

I'd say it's highly likely a fuelling issue, I'd start at the point of where the fuel goes in the bike, try the following: -

1. Open the filler is there a hissing sound of air rushing in when you open the cap?
2. Check fuel strainer.
3. Check fuel filter
4. Check pump flow
5. Re check metering, pilot and main jets

[vdbergroel]

Thanks all. Today I will work on it and I'll let you know if I've found the issue and if so, what is was

[samdf]

I had a similar issue with 1 of my fazers, which genuinely turned out to be that somebody had replaced the petcock and it was causing all sorts of issues. It was incredibly stiff which i only noticed when I took the fuel tank off, i tried using my other thank from my other fazer, all good. So took it apart, replaced the parts with OEM and it was fine.

[daviee]

think you need to properly clean the carbs sounds like the pilot circuit is blocked you need to take out the mixture screws and clean out the orifice where it screws  into clean all jets etc if you can get them ultrasonically cleaned even better 

[vdbergroel]

So, it took a while to get it all tried out and I've gotten myself into another adventure.

I took out the carbs again, inspected them and I could not see any flaw. Put them back together and tried to start, but it wouldn't fly. I waited a day or two until I could use someone elses battery to test that too, before I noticed fuel was leaking. My whole tank empty, and a fuel smell from the carter.

So I guess one of my floating needles is jammed which I need to clean. I do not have a vacuum petcock but a simple one. I'll drain the oil, have the engine for a while, put in new oil and filter, start without the spark plugs and hope for some better results.

Also, I'm still not sure if this will solve the original issue. I've ordered a new battery and I'll check the petcock as my tank is empty now anyways.
Any additional tips are still welcome (I'll be gone for the weekend but will then work on it again) and once I've found what it is I'll share it with you .

Thanks!

[vdbergroel]

Have the engine breathe* for a while

[Fazerider]

… So I guess one of my floating needles is jammed which I need to clean.

It may be the O-ring around the body of the metering/float valve. They tend to crack or flake with age so fuel runs round the outside despite the float valve itself sealing OK.
If that’s the case you’ll need to pull the brass insert out and replace the O-ring, a thin smear of red rubber grease (as used for brake seals) will make it easier to reinstall.

[samdf]

[quote author=vdbergroel link=topic=22637.msg261746#msg261746 date=1496261648]
… So I guess one of my floating needles is jammed which I need to clean.

It may be the O-ring around the body of the metering/float valve. They tend to crack or flake with age so fuel runs round the outside despite the float valve itself sealing OK.
If that’s the case you’ll need to pull the brass insert out and replace the O-ring, a thin smear of red rubber grease (as used for brake seals) will make it easier to reinstall.
[/quote]


Good recommendation, this is yet another thing I had to do. I found some seals locally for 20 pence each that did the job just fine. My drain needles also needed replacing on one of them as i have a drip... I may (or may not - depending how you guys view this) have just blocked them for the time being