Hi my first post on this site hello everyone iam Ricky, just bought a 05 American import model off ebay 16000 miles 4 owners, viper legal can k&n filter , now i have had the exup value serviced the bike is going well. GOT Home sunday after long ride and found oil seal gone on left leg. Big question while having seal fixed what fork springs should i replace the standard with? Iam not a mega fast rider but like a bike to handle,and spend most of the time just pottering around, always ride sole and weight 90kg with kit. Spoke to k teck and they said progressive springs not linea and 10w oil.Hyperpro do a set just wounded what the opinion was and what to fit .
Hello! Welcome Ricky.
MCT, Brook Suspension, K-Tech, Reactive, Maxton, we're spoiled for choice in this country for suspension specialists. Ring a few and ask the same questions and you'll get an idea of the best way forward. They're all very willing to talk.
As for the best way forward, I dunno. Fazer forks aren't that easy to make a massive improvement to without revalving, so I'd say linear springs, at least 9.0nm and 7.5wt oil, but others will disagree.
The full revalve from K-Tech is going to be north of 500 quid these days....
I got this from Maxton when I enquired. It might help
YAMAHA FAZER 1000
FRONT
The forks on the Fazer 1000 are a very good pair of forks for general road use but do have problems. The springs are too soft which can cause the forks to bottom out under heavy breaking, this depends on your rider weight and again how hard you ride the bike, the big problem is they do not have enough rebound damping, which makes the forks spring back very quickly when you let go of the brake or accelerate, this causes the bike to run wide out of corners and makes the bike difficult to turn in to a corner. The forks also have too much compression damping which makes the bike kick off small bumps in the road. This problem can make the ride uncomfortable. We modify the forks fitting harder springs to suit the type of riding you do and also your rider weight, we also revalve the cartridges increasing the rebound damping and reducing the compression damping. We replace the existing hydraulic bumpstops with spring bumpstops, which eliminates the severe patter that occurs when the forks bottom out, this also gives the rider more feel mid-corner when pushing the front end. The fork conversion costs £250.00 plus worn parts : Seals £20 and Bushes £20. (ALL PRICES EXCLUSIVE OF V.A.T).
We have also found a problem with the internal damper cartidge wearing out on Fazer 1000 forks. We have had forks that have only done 5000 miles with worn cartridge tubes. Unfortunately Yamaha will not sell just the cartridge tube, you have to buy the complete damping assembly which is very expensive. We machine new cartridge tubes (only as part of a Maxton conversion) manufactured from hydraulic steel tube, which will never wear out. The replacement cartridge tubes cost £80.00 plus V.A.T per pair. if the tubes are not replaced there will be never be any damping in the worn area of the cartridge tube.
REAR
The standard unit on the Fazer 1000 is a fairly cheap unit. The damping inside the unit is not too bad it has the correct amount of compression and rebound damping, for the average rider weight. The spring however is too soft, this would cause the bike to sit down under acceleration, this would cause instability at high speeds. We can respring the unit and fit a harder spring to suit the riders weight, this costs £55.00 plus V.A.T. The unit is a sealed unit so the damping can not be improved, but for what the bike is being used for the damping is O.K. We also supply a replacement Maxton unit is a fully adjustable, alloy bodied, high pressure gas unit that adjusts via shim stack system. The unit has a spring to suit your rider weight and to suit what type of riding you do. The unit is suited to high temperatures because it adjusts via the shim stack not via a needle in a hole system like Ohlins or W.P unit. The unit costs £405.00 plus V.A.T but we also make a piggy back remote reservoir unit that has a second compression adjuster and ride height adjustment which costs £490.00 plus V.A.T.
We also supply tie bars to raise the rear ride height, this makes the bike turn a lot quicker and hold a better line out of corners. The tie bars coster £50.00 plus V.A.T p pair. The tie bars are anodised and engarved with the Maxton logo.
![[Image: 125377.png]](http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-uk/125377.png)
12-04-16, 09:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-04-16, 09:35 PM by PieEater.)
Hi Ricky and welcome, I think it's probably important for you to research what type of spring and weight of oil you need yourself by contacting the companies AyJay has listed and asking for their advice based on your own requirements as this is a personal thing. It sounds as if K-Tech have recommended you progressive springs based on your requirements of something suitable for "just pottering around" as Progressive springs will generally give a 'plusher' ride under these circumstances and are what were fitted as stock by Yamaha (just not a strong enough spring) . Like AyJay I have chosen linear springs because I feel they are better suited to my needs which are more towards sportier riding and predictable action through the entire stroke. K-Tech also recommended me 10w oil which I think is a little too heavy, I will certainly be trying a slightly lighter oil when I come to change it, most likely the 7.5w AyJay has recommended.
Though a fork service and new springs will help, if you are still running the OEM rear shock the biggest improvement you will get in handling will be from getting that sorted, The R6 mod is a popular cost effective way of doing this if you can't justify a replacement shock from the likes of Nitron. Raising the rear with a jack-up kit and lowering the front by dropping the yoke down the forks will also give noticeable improvements to the way the bike corners.
12-04-16, 10:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-04-16, 10:36 PM by AyJay.)
Yeah, I have tried the 10wt oil PieEater, but 10wt oil and the problem with the overly strong compression damping made the forks kick off transverse bumps really badly, even after I'd turned the compression damping right down. There's a fast road near here where tree roots have given the road corrugations and it was dreadful over those. My ZZR floats over that 1/4 mile of bends, so it was easy for me to see what good suspension should be like by comparison.
I was considering doing the Raven Rider mod, but I ran out of time last year and I didn't fancy hacking the springs around. I increased the air gap as he suggested. Not a lot of difference, but the higher rate springs and slightly increase oil weight has helped a bit. That was the 4th rebuild and they feel pretty harsh and still dive. To be honest, my forks are now 148,000 miles old, so I'm onto a loser whichever way you look at it, but they are better than standard. By about 15% :\ . Busy saving up for an MT-10!
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31941
I guess the overly harsh compression damping is why Yamaha fitted the softer springs (or vice versa) AyJay. I can find an OK compromise by slackening off the preload a bit but like you say it's still harsher than you'd like over the ruts in the road surface, I'm hoping the lighter weight 7.5w oil will help a bit. I guess in a way this is an argument for progressive springs like the HyperPro's which are designed to be less harsh over the smaller ruts, although I still feel I made the right choice for me with linear but maybe in Ricky's case progressive would be the way to go !!!???
Thanks for the replys .I am more confused than ever ,rang around for more advice and every one has a opinion but it is not helping lol .I ride a lot with a small group of slow mates on the back roads of south Leicestershire and Northamptonshire and when on my own like to ride a bit more faster and like to have a go in the corners. My problem is with the shocking state off the roads and a bad back I need a bike that handles and is not going to shake my teeth out. I am not a rider who goes full on in to a corner than full breaks and then full out but I do like to at least give it a go. I have had GSXR 750 and supermotos so do like a bike to go where I point it, so what to do ,bike going in on 26 so have to make up mind quickly
13-04-16, 04:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 13-04-16, 04:45 PM by PieEater.)
Yup it's a minefield alright. In your shoes I guess I would be looking at the HyperPro progressive springs which is what you mentioned at the outset. They will be plusher and less harsh when you are out with your mates on a leisurely ride but still be considerably better than the stock springs as and when you pick up the pace. I would still suggest a lighter oil than 10w, maybe 7.5w but you could contact HyperPro and see what they say given the damping on the Fazer is a bit harsh. I'd make sure the bushes and dust seals are replaced as part of the service, they won't add much to the cost.
13-04-16, 07:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 13-04-16, 08:39 PM by AyJay.)
Yes, I wouldn't go with 10wt oil again. It's far too harsh. The problem seems to be that the forks simply don't react to smaller bumps quickly enough. You can look down at the fork legs (straight road, no traffic please) and see them locked out on smaller bumps. But then, because of the soft spring, when you brake, they dive like a submarine. The way forward is definitely much much higher spring rate and maybe a small increase in fork oil weight. This makes the forks support the weight of the bike better. RavenRiders idea was to bring the compression of the air gap into play sooner which is why he increases it. That should help too.
The other problem is that the rebound is not very good, so when you let the brakes off the forks spring back too quickly too. I did try 2.5wt oil, but that made the rebound problem even worse, although it did make the ride softer. I've done quite a bit of testing and if my bike was young (so long ago!) and brand new to me, I'd definitely get them revalved. But I'm not spending 500 quid when it's done so many miles.
Ricky, I would strongly recommend a better rear shock as well. I have an Ohlins on mine and the difference it made is astounding. I just wish I could get the forks to feel that good, it just feels so well supported and supple at the rear with a proper shock.
Do what I did and invest in some used FZ6 forks, 43mm so are same diameter, and use the stanchions, damper rods and FZS legs and FZS tops so you can still compress springs. Mine rides lovely. Takes a bit of messing but gets rid of all the messing about with settings on standard and pretty crap front end on what is a fantastic bike when sorted!
Interesting. Has anyone done a write up? Do you mean use the stanchions from the 1000 and the damping cartridge and fork lowers from the FZ6?
I used the FZ6 stanchions and damping rod to get away from the FZs1000 cartridges. Can't remember what springs I used but mine was a terrible ride before even after R6 rear shock conversion. Originally bought the FZ6 forks just to swap. Wheel spindle is same part number on both bikes so I new front wheel would fit. The forks were about 2 inch shorter though and I couldn't get the FZS1000 calipers to fit properly so just experimented and they work fine.
Well I have made my decision and it is against the majority off the advice I have been given lol. I have gone for the hyperpro progressive springs with 10w oil,spoke to a very help full guy called Chris's at Calsport who told all about the hyper pro springs and with my type off riding it looks the best compromise because in the end that is what it is,I just ride to slow and on to many crap surface roads .He told me the springs come with a comprehensive guide on set up and how much oil to use for my style off ridding. I just think the liner springs are not for me (does this mean I am now officially a old man lol) Next when I can get some more money I will get the rear shock changed and that will be a whole new discussion on which shock is best, watch this space . I will let you know how I get on .
Thats the first thing I did Hyperpro progressive and 10w oil. Made no difference really. Its the standard cartridges that cannot displace the oil quick enough, hence the choppy ride.
New springs and oil made a significant difference to my bike. Previously I could tell that my forks were being outperformed by my rear Nitron which is what prompted me to service them and upgrade the springs, now I feel that they are pretty evenly matched. In the past 6 years on these forums I don't recall anyone else implying that they noticed no difference after upgraded springs so although this wouldn't be first on my mod list I think most would agree it is still worthwhile.
I really think that the issue with the front forks should have been a recall, but I guess it's not like cars where hundreds of thousands are sold. I just have experimented after not finding the ride much better after the progressive spring change. I even tried 2.5w oil. Thought it would be good to get rid of the main problem and have a mess. It has worked out well. Just wish I wasn't so busy so I could ride the bloody thing.
14-04-16, 10:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 15-04-16, 06:22 AM by PieEater.)
(14-04-16, 09:44 PM)ste131 link Wrote: I really think that the issue with the front forks should have been a recall, but I guess it's not like cars where hundreds of thousands are sold. I just have experimented after not finding the ride much better after the progressive spring change. I even tried 2.5w oil. Thought it would be good to get rid of the main problem and have a mess. It has worked out well. Just wish I wasn't so busy so I could ride the bloody thing. I appreciate that you had a problem with the forks on your bike and am pleased you found an innovative solution, but you got feedback from a number of owners who said that if properly serviced and with correct springs installed the stock forks are perfectly serviceable - http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,18830.msg218079.html
I don't want to keep harping on about this but I don't agree that because you had a set of bad forks it is a waste of time for others to service and respring theirs as this just isn't the case. What would be really good is if you could do a proper writeup of the modifications you made to your forks and got this put up as a sticky so others with the resources and inclination could give it a go.
/Edit: Having reread your posts I think what you have been trying to resolve is harsh compression damping causing a choppy ride and perhaps you were saying that new oil and springs would not affect this because the problem is with the cartridges. However this thread was never about this issue hence some confusion !?!
Hi had the springs replaced and now done a short run to give them a try. It is definitely feels better, when under 20 mph feels a bit bouncy but when the speed rises it smooths out and the forks don't dive any where as much under breaking.Need to give them a long run and a ride a round the crap back roads to give them a full test. The forks have been set up as Hyperpro manual.Hyperpro 10 w oil,oil level 170 mm, Spring preloaded 3 rings out, Compression 20- 25 clicks open, Repound 8-10 clicks open, Drop forks 8 mm
Hi Ricky sounds like the forks are underdamped which is why they feel bouncy, and from the information you have been give it's easy to see why. The compression damping at 20-25 clicks open will be doing nothing as the adjusters affectively stop working after about 12-14 clicks out, you should be looking at around 8 clicks out and trying a couple of clicks either way to see what you prefer. Also Yamaha recommend a 140-145mm oil level so if yours were done with a level of 170mm you may not have enough oil in the forks (measured as the distance between the oil level and top of fork).
They only feel bouncy at low speed but when the speed rises it is very smooth but need more miles to get a better idea. I presume Hyperpro know what they are doing with the settings given. I wonder if the rear shock is now being shown up.
Have now been on a 200 mile run and had a run a round my favourite back roads, whitch have some great bends and curvy roads,the surfaces are in many places very poor and uneven. I am very impressed with the new spring set up, the bikes handling I believe has improved considerably . The bike holds a line and only trys to run wide if pushed beyond my limit. Under breaking is where I am most impressed , before it would dive deep and then spring back fast, now it is much more controlled with more feel and predictably. The front does feel firmer than before and is definitely harder at low speed over poor road surfaces but I can live with that because as the speed rises the bumps melt away.The settings given by Hydropro I believe are spot on and the use of 10 w oil justified . I have not rode a bike with linear springs so can not compare but feel I have made the right choice for me, time will tell. Now the next question, is the rear shock holding the bike back and how good can the bike get with a replacement and the biggest question is which one
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