Pipercross (Good or Bad)?

[Gaz66]

Morning Foccers


Just in the middle of another carb pull & strip/clean for shit running.

Done the usual Ivanising process yrs ago, Pipercross filter was recommended, personally I'm on the fence about its filtering ability.
This is the 3rd time in as many yrs that the old girl has developed pilot jet like symptoms & running like a bag a spanners in the low rpm range.
Went out for a blast the other day, bike felt to not be running as smooth as normal, come to think of it, it's felt a bit shitty low down in the low rpm range on the last couple of rides.
This last ride, proved to be showing a very shitty running motor low down, I even pulled into an Adsa car park half thinking I was due for a break down of sorts, a bit of the usual swearing ensued, checked the obvious, all plugs leads seated & tight.
So ride got cut short & a detour back home, low rpm running was by this time much worse.
I had all the classic symptoms of blocked pilot jets.
 
So yesdi I pulled the carbs, I was a bit shocked with the the state of em internally, loads of crap gummed up around brass throttle butterflies & around the pilot holes, pilot jets weren't blocked, which I found odd, I expected to find em choked solid with crap, but no, fairly clean, I could see thru em, poked em thru with my usual method (guitar string) left em soaking in EGR cleaner over night along with all the other jets.
Float valve seats are still good, just needed a bit of a wash in brake cleaner & washed out filter basket, O-rings still supple.

Only way I could shift the accumulated crap within the carb body was copious amounts of scrubbing with old toothbrushes & Holts EGR cleaner, it's awesome stuff but very potent, it likes to eat most rubber products so be careful if you use it.

So wondering if anyone else is having poor filtering from Pipercross filters?
I'm gunna throw my OEM paper filter back in, it's still as new, not impressed one bit with these Pipercrap filters.
I've even bought the Pipercross cleaning kit & re-oil spray, but I've lost all confidence in these foam filters, first time I've used em & it'll be the last.

I've used mainly K&N filters (oiled) on most bikes in recent yrs, running a Sprint race filter in my VFR, virtually same deal as a K&N but seems a better made filter.

Thoughts?

[robbo]

When Falcon ivanised my bike, he supplied a Pipercross filter. Have used the re-oiling kit a few times, but been fine for around 50k miles over last last 9 years. I know when you start to doubt a product, in your head you need a total alternative in order to replace the lost confidence.??

[Trebus]

Gaz, can’t really comment on the Pipercross but are you using E5 or E10?

I know it’s an age old debate but I can say for sure I’ve seen some of the mess made by ethanol in petrol, especially in things like mowers.

I only use E5 in my Fazer, Esso if I can which may or may not have any ethanol now depending upon where you are. When I pulled my carbs last year they were absolutely immaculate on an OEM filter. Mike had ivanised in around 2010 which was the last time the carbs had been off and I only pulled them to do the o-ring replacement with Viton.

For context, my bike hasn’t had a huge amount of use over its life and probably done maximum
12000 miles since Ivan’s kit. So it sits around a lot.

[robbo]

I would echo the E5 only advise, and using Esso if possible dependent on location. If I’m abroad or away from home here, I always carry an octane booster additive in case I’m so low on petrol that I’m forced to get E10 if there’s no choice. However this has never happened so far, but want to avoid any E10 horror stories, although others have used it with no issues.

[Gaz66]

Hi Trebus.
Where did u source the Viton O'rings from?
I replaced all the O'rings when I fitted the Ivans MB kit yrs ago, still supple so re-using em, not sure if I sourced Viton, it's a few yrs ago.
Bike's a 2003 & only clocked up 25K, I only ever use E5 gas, no Ethanol free about that I'm aware of, ethanols been in petrol for decades on quiet & way longer than the Fazers been around, so Yamaha will have designed it to be compatible, all my fuel hoses are OEM & still supple-ish.
I do try to use Shell Nitro when I can, which is supposed to have some decent cleaning additives & give more power than other E5 gas, personally my butt dyno can't tell the difference to be honest, but it's the most expensive gas around.
Mainly use BP Ultimate E5 gas, as it's my local rip off joint up the road.
Gas tank is as clean as a whistle inside, always use a slug of Dipetane, get rid of moisture in fuel & lubes system (apparently), used it for a couple of yrs, still on the fence about it's ability due to the regular carbs strips of late, keeps float bowl/jets & all O'rings mint tho.
Last fuel filters only done approx 2K, I'm replacing it regardless while bike's apart, found some black crap in the system that I can't suss where its come from?.

Can't blame the Pipercrap filter for the above, but it's degraded & shedding plastic coating from the outer steel mesh, why did they plastic coat it? I reckon a cost cutting exercise in using steel as opposed to stainless mesh, hence coating it in plastic to hide the rust.
Never seen this much crap inside my carbs throats before, gummed up around the butterflies & idle jet holes that were drilled for the Ivans kit, all now clean & blown out, so all being well the old girl will be a missile yet again.

Bike's only a fair weather weekend toy, I'm just pissed off having to yet again have to strip the carbs for poor running.
I'm losing faith in aftermarket filters, done a bit of tinterweb research & found out aftermarket filters are only good for a couple of BHP at best when back to back tested with a quality paper filter & no aftermarket filter comes anywhere close to filtering out small particles like a paper filter, I've got an as new Hi-flo paper filter that I saved from when I bought the bike yrs ago.
Pipercrap's going in the bin, no way is it going back in my airbox.

[Trebus]

Hi Gaz,

The o-rings were from polymax. The sizes are in the download section and unfazed is your man for any questions.

I’ve added an attachment with part of my invoice with what I ordered.

[RMT1983]

Pipercross filters I've found that the black coating on them peels off and causes a proper mess. Granted its on the outside of the filter bit still, the quality these days is poor.

Ivan now recommends the DNA filter over the K&N as the k&n quality has also dropped amd the filters no longer fit snug. I've recently ordered brand new k&n pods and honestly the quality was appalling. They went back.

C have always been decent too. BMC & DNA are my recondition ls for the bikes.

Hope this helps.

[Gaz66]

Agreed to shitty plastic coating on the outer Pipercrap mesh is all lifting on mine too & coming away in places, this is the side facing the motor, so if any breaks loose, it'll go straight thru the carbs & motor, not impressed, threw the bastid thing in the bin, Hi-flrow paper filters from now on, got an old one nearly as new, so that's now in, new filter ordered ready for next service.
Carbs got a full strip this time, mainly to inspect the 4 air cut valves, 3 of which are buried between the carb joints, expected em to be shagged, but all in good order, just needed a good clean.
Splitting 4 carbs apart for the 1st time in 23yrs was a bit of a challenge, those 2 foot long bolts were solid, defo snapping if I tried to break em loose cold, I had to cook the carbs with hot air gun on full juice, used Deblock penetrating fluid, left em to soak & cool down, bolts cracked loose on 2nd heat cycle, had a bit of a "Oh fuck" moment when they cracked loose, thought I'd snapped one for sure, all factory O-rings were in half decent shape but a little too loose a fit for my liking, so went down a size but up in thickness, new O'rings are a nice snug fit with a smear of silicon grease on em, I've a selection box of NBR O-rings so used these throughout, bit of a faff re-joining 4 carbs back together, I found it easier to join 2 outer carbs to 2 inners, so I had 2 pairs, then only had the 1 centre join to contend with on final assembly, those little but very strong linkage springs were very fiddly & easy to fire across the garage.
Refitted carbs to bike.
Stripped pump to eliminate any crap being inside, found some black gunk, that looked exactly like what came out the float bowl drains on strip. 
Also all fuel pipes had some crap lodged inside too, scrubbed em all out with a stiff bottle brush till I saw clean brake cleaner when flushing em thru, no clue where this black crap has come from? might have been in there from factory & just broke loose now, it was after the filter.
Reassembled pump, fitted pump, crank no start ... "Oh Bollox", quick check to see I'd left nowt off, "Petrol" Derrr ..."OFF", crank still no start ... WTF now?
Checked pump, not priming when kill switch is flick on.
Pulled pump back off, found points didn't look quite right, so pulled em all apart, found the centre flippy bit that runs off the pump centre shaft, looked a little worn & had poor engagement into the pump shaft slot, took it apart, filled it all smooth & re-bent the points mounting frame to give more flippy bit engagement, cleaned up points mating faces, yet another fiddly twat to assemble, found the easy method after a few WTF's, point all now in perfect alignment which they weren't before, pump clean a whistle, carbs clean as a whistle, hoses clean as a whistle, new filter, new fuel.
Crank ...... Yayyy she runs again. down tools for dinner & big thank fook thats done sigh.