Experiences with Ivan Kit

[Falcon 269]

Well done to get the kit installed but for others following your lead, a couple of observations to hopefully make the job less physical ...

No need for lashing straps to hold the airbox back.  Just tighten the top airbox retaining bolt.  The key is to make sure you move the EXUP cables and breather hose from between the airbox and the frame so that you can slide it fully back in the first place.  Also, make sure the rubber tank support pad on the frame cross member - the one that's zip-tied in place - hasn't rotated to a position where it fouls the airbox.

I used to remove the throttle cables at the grip end but stopped doing that after the first couple of dozen installations.  It took too long.   Instead, wind in the adjuster at the throttle end to give maximum slack for when you remove the cables at the carb pulley end. The trick here is to ease the carbs across the back of the engine and then out to the left side and forward slightly.  Balance the carb bank on your knee and use both hands to remove the cable nipples from the pulley.  The top one comes out really easily.  The lower one requires you to rotate the pulley and use a hooked tool to slip the cable off the pulley.  You might want to put something over the cam box cover to protect it from scratching in case you bang the carbs against it. 

NB.  I think Ivan himself moves the carbs across to the left and then pushes #3 & 4 carbs into stubs #1 & 2 to hold them while he unhooks the cables from the side.  I've never tried that method, mine was just too easy for me.

No criticism intended here but if the carbs can be removed in 15 - 20 minutes using the right techniques and tools, it is not fundamentally a difficult task.   Refitting takes 20 - 25 minutes, allowing for checking that everything is correctly in place and tightened properly.

Which leads me to refitting the carbs into the intake stubs.  If you don't need a crowbar to get them out of the stubs, you don't need straps and levers and Lord knows what else to refit them.  

Use silicone lube, soap or whatever to lube the intake stubs and the airbox connector tubes.  Make sure that the clamps on the intake stubs are correctly positioned and not constricting the stub.

Once you have slid the carbs across to the correct position, offer them to the intake stubs but don't push at this stage. Rotate the carbs up and down slightly until you feel them centre in all the stubs, then start to push.  I found that having them angled slightly below level and tilting them upwards as I pressed them in worked best.  If they don't want to go in, back off and reposition them again. Brute force is not necessary.  If you have to resort to force, you're doing it the wrong way.

Handy hint.  If you're doing this on a cold engine/cold day, use a hair dryer to warm the stubs to make them more pliable.

Nice one, Julius - good luck with the rest of your work and please let us know when it's up and running.  :thumbup

[jul1us]

Thank you very much for your thorough reply, Mike.


It will probably be of good help to me because I don't trust those third party intake manifolds (the clamps were lose on them and I had to remove the spacer) and will mod my original ones which were in better condition than I thought.


Btw, to remove the throttle cables I didn't stick the carb into manifold one but just leaned the seat against the bike and used it as a stand which was very comfortable.

[Falcon 269]

Btw, to remove the throttle cables I didn't stick the carb into manifold one but just leaned the seat against the bike and used it as a stand which was very comfortable.

Good idea!  I'll give a try next time I do one of these ...   :lol

[jul1us]

[size=1em]Which leads me to refitting the carbs into the intake stubs.  If you don't need a crowbar to get them out of the stubs, you don't need straps and levers and Lord knows what else to refit them.   [/size]

[size=1em]Nice one, Julius - good luck with the rest of your work and please let us know when it's up and running.  :thumbup [/size]

This is very true. All my problems came from these cheap knock off intake stubs which were sold as original and which I had bought in case something goes wrong with the modding. Today, I modded the original ones and then replaced them and everything fitted very nicely without the need of straps etc.


I also didn't remove the throttle cable and it all was very fast and easy now.


Hoping to have her running tomorrow. 

[jul1us]

Regarding the airbox cover mod, I read in some guides that the stub should be halved and shortened but Ivan says on fz1oa that it should only be halved and not shortened.


What's the latest info on this matter?


So far I only halved it:

[Falcon 269]

Just halved is fine.

Carbs in/out gets easier every time you do it.

[jul1us]

Thanks, Mike.


Basically the only things left to be done is reinstalling the radiator and syncing the carbs (I already pre-synced them with the steel ball). Unfortunately, ist has been raining for the last couple of days.


I did everything according to your specs, set the mixture screw 4 turns out. In your experience this always works or does it sometimes need adjusting?

[Falcon 269]

Hi J,


Neat job with the airbox lid - only just seen your photo.  That will work fine.


I'm confident that 4 turns will be good.  If you put the bike on a dyno, a tuner might feel the need to make minor adjustment but really, you'd never notice the difference on the road.


Looking forward to hearing your thoughts once the job is complete.

[jul1us]

Today started out going very smoothly. I finally had time and weather was nice so I could finally finish up (or so I thought).


After reinstalling the radiator, I started up the bike and to my great joy, it started on the first press of the starter button.


I let it warm and after pushing the choke back, I synced the carbs with the carbtune pro. It really paid of prsyncing it with the ball bearings, as it went pretty fast and easy but it also showed that syncing with ball bearing alone is not enough.


The engine sounded better and smoother than it ever has. Thanks so much for the help, Mike!


After putting everything else back together (and doing some other stuff in the house),  I pushed it out of my yard and wanted to take it for a quick test drive. It started right up but after going only a few meters the engine suddenly revved up really high with out me pulling the throttle. I switched off the bike and after restarting the engine revved right back up.


I looked under the carbs and it was pretty heavily dripping from carb #2.


Going to take out the carbs in a few minutes...


The gaskets for the carb bowls (and most other gaskets and o-rings) were brand new and the carb properly closed. From where could the dripping have come?


I'm guessing it's some connected with the float but it I set it to 14mm and checked repeatedly.


Hopefully, I will find an obvious reason when taking it apart...

[Falcon 269]

Either a stuck float needle or a leaking float needle valve O-ring.


Before removing carbs, try tapping the affected carb body to see if you can shake the float loose.

[jul1us]

Thank you, after doing some reading last night I thought this would be the case. Very nice to have this confirmed.


I already took out the carbs yesterday, last night I was thinking, I should have tried knocking it first.


I replaced the needle valve o-rings so that can probably be ruled out...

[Falcon 269]

Did you fit replacement aftermarket float needles, Julius?  If so, that might be the source of your problem.  I've had to remove those from a couple of bikes when owners had used them instead of genuine Yamaha parts and suffered issues such as yours. 

The spring-loaded plunger in the needle body is slightly different in length - and possibly spring pressure - which makes it hard to achieve the correct fuel level using Ivan's instructions.

[jul1us]

Funny you say that. I first had put those new aftermarket float needles in but then took them out again when doing the float hight as their spring tension was much higher and this made me doubt them.


Good news, everything seems to be working now.


First thing I did was measure the float hight of carb #2 and lo and behold, the height was way too low, so this was probably the reason for what happened yesterday.


I suspect how this might have happened. I set the float hight by holding the carbs slightly angled standing on it's side. It seems that when carb #2 was on the bottom side, the angle quickly became too steep so today I turned the carbs around so that #2 was at the top.


At that point, I decided to follow Pat's advice and raise the float hight from 14mm to 14.5mm and reset all the floats.


But the fun wasn't over:


After putting everything back together, I started the bike and it immediately revved up to 6000 rpms without any use of the throttle. I quickly switched it back off. I tried a few more times but it was the same. Choke made no difference.


I checked the throttle which was fine and even unhooked the throttle from the tensioner on the carb side. I turned the idle all the way down. Still the same.


At this point I was truly overcome by joy and in my mind composing my next message to you.


The only thing I could think of was the TPS. Since I had switched carbs it sure must have been way off. So I checked the TPS and the display gave me 10.000. I set it to 5000. By now the bike was turned off for a few minutes and when I turned it back on, it ran fine. I just had to set the idle back to the right setting.


I can't imagine the TPS being responsible for this behaviour (as there was also no problem yesterday) but nothing else changed. Any idea what might have happened?


It was about to rain and dinner time came close but I was able to do a 5 minute test drive and there were no issues.


Of course, it hard to really say something as the engine was cold and I didn't revv it higher than 4000 rpms but it definitely seemed more snappy (in a good way) and less "lazy" from low down. I can already say that it was definitely worth it.


Thanks so much Mike, and everybody else contributing to this thread, you were really a tremendous help! I will update again once I can do a proper assessment.

[SkidT]

Fingers crossed for you Julius that you’ve got it sorted this time. ?
“Truly overcome by joy”…………I’d have still been looking for the spanners that I’d thrown. ?

[jul1us]

Well, there was a sarcastic undertone in my mind when I wrote that 

[jul1us]

Little update:


Have taken two more rides and the Fazer runs like a dream. The power is always right there from the get go and it really just feels like this is the way the bike is meant to be. There is also a notable increase of power. Was able to go little faster this time and wow, so much fun.


The bike also starts much better and runs smoother.


Really happy I went for these mods.

Hopefully next week I can actually take it out of town...

Thanks again so much!

[Edited to fix the tiny font problem - GrahamM: Moderator]

[SkidT]

Brilliant. Well done and congratulations Julius, on having a go and finishing the project yourself, in less than ideal conditions.

[Falcon 269]

That's good news all round, Julius.  Congratulations on the all the work you've done - hope summer is good where you are to let you enjoy the improvements to the max!



Mike

[jul1us]

Little update: So far the bike has been running like a dream. It's so much fun and power is just always there! That is until today. Today, I took out the bike for an afternoon of bliss out of town. I gave it everything on the b-roads and the bike was just so sweet and smooth. Power delivery was perfect and I was feeling very appreciative.


After coming back home, it was parked for about three hours until I took it out in the evening for some errands around town. This is when I noticed some stuttering when accelerating, especially when hard accelerating. Something that has never happened before. I think it was especially around 2000 - 3000 and 5000 - 6000. Power was still there and it was fine when going steady or accelerating very smoothly. It revs up fine when I'm in neutral, just stutters under load. It feels like the engine is not getting enough gas.


It's so weird because it was just running so perfectly al the way until I was home, a few hours earlier. It would have made more sense to me, if it happened during the ride and not after.


Carbs are clean (Ivan was just installed a few month ago) and synched, spark plugs are fresh. Exup was serviced. I have only used V-Power fuel so far, so I don't think it's possible that anything gummed up, especially as it was just perfectly running in the afternoon.


Tomorrow, I will check if it's still there (probably will be, I'm guessing) and then check all the electrical connections...

[jul1us]

Update:

Just took it for a ride and it has become much worse. Power was fluctuating even at constant rpms and it went off a couple of times at red lights. The engine also ran rougher than usual. Standing at idle, it sometimes sounds fine and sometimes not.
I made two videos, a short one with bike running when it’s parked and one with the phone camera in my pocket during a ride so there is just audio.

Here is the one with the bike parked:

https://youtu.be/Vz4nr0bHKRI?feature=shared

And here is the ride (at 30 seconds is the first red light where it goes off a few times). Engine was already a little warm during this ride as I had already gone for a few miles:

https://youtu.be/1lC3a4UeJ2E


When I was stopped at the red light (at second 30 of the video) I also got the exup error (7000) two or three times but it was just for a second. Could all of this just be an exup problem?