(22-06-20, 09:22 AM)FazedBr link Wrote: Thanks for the feedback.
Early signs is the oil has had a positive difference as I'm sure most will, time will tell but happy with it for now. Darrsi has used it for some time so that's good credit. Overall the bike is running a lot better for the bits changed out.
Was annoyed the exhaust didn't just bolt on and couldn't get the carb balance done on Saturday. They are so close, 43mm and 44.5mm which don't quite slip together. I'm hoping a 44.5mm straight coupler will do it with compression but may need to pad the smaller end with something heat proof.
I'm writing off the cam chain for now, I'm hoping the carb sync solves it! Picked up a Carbtune and useful guide mentioned above so ready to go.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
Thanks, came out a little small that :rollin . Forum newbie, what can I say.
(22-06-20, 09:27 AM)FazedBr link Wrote: Thanks, came out a little small that :rollin . Forum newbie, what can I say.
Happens a lot, it is rather annoying.
Easy to correct on a laptop though, if you "Modify" your post, highlight all the words, then adjust the font size to 10pt it sorts it all out.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(22-06-20, 09:11 AM)darrsi link Wrote: So rather than picking holes in what i've found to be a perfectly good engine lubricant at a very good price for everyone, why not just accept it as being okay to use, even more so as it has been tried and tested for years by me? Believe me if i thought for one second there was anything wrong about it i would be the first to tell people to completely avoid it, but in this case it's the complete opposite. 
I'm not picking holes in anything fella, stating fact. I've not said don't use it, the opposite. As you've got the right to suggest particular oils, I and others have the right to suggest something else, you're being defensive for some reason and that's a matter for you. The oil mentioned is in spec and it will be just, that's why it cost less and yes it will do the a perfectly acceptable job. Higher quality oils will perform better, they don't generally discolour as fast, they drain out better and because they use better, extra and different additives they perform better, i.e. resist heat, carbonation, film and tear strength, etc etc.
I think you said you use fully synth, if you use Westway fully synth 10w40 4T oil it's API SL rated and is the lowest (just) spec for that type of oil, I would recommend is SN, higher and later spec rating giving you better performance as outlined above. That doesn't mean SL is bad, it's not, but SN performs better.
If you want use a particular oil that's cheaper because you regard value for money, over performance, that's your choice. It's the same with things like tyres, pads, chains etc etc, you buy to suit your budget and needs, as long as you happy, that's all that matters. 
Later
(22-06-20, 12:14 PM)Gnasher link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=26249.msg316736#msg316736 date=1592813509] So rather than picking holes in what i've found to be a perfectly good engine lubricant at a very good price for everyone, why not just accept it as being okay to use, even more so as it has been tried and tested for years by me? Believe me if i thought for one second there was anything wrong about it i would be the first to tell people to completely avoid it, but in this case it's the complete opposite.
I'm not picking holes in anything fella, stating fact. I've not said don't use it, the opposite. As you've got the right to suggest particular oils, I and others have the right to suggest something else, you're being defensive for some reason and that's a matter for you. The oil mentioned is in spec and it will be just, that's why it cost less and yes it will do the a perfectly acceptable job. Higher quality oils will perform better, they don't generally discolour as fast, they drain out better and because they use better, extra and different additives they perform better, i.e. resist heat, carbonation, film and tear strength, etc etc.
I think you said you use fully synth, if you use Westway fully synth 10w40 4T oil it's API SL rated and is the lowest (just) spec for that type of oil, I would recommend is SN, higher and later spec rating giving you better performance as outlined above. That doesn't mean SL is bad, it's not, but SN performs better.
If you want use a particular oil that's cheaper because you regard value for money, over performance, that's your choice. It's the same with things like tyres, pads, chains etc etc, you buy to suit your budget and needs, as long as you happy, that's all that matters.
[/quote]
I'm just not sure how much performance you can really expect to get out of more expensive oil on a 20 year old bike?
As long as it's changed regularly and you generally look after your bike then I really cannot see a benefit, unless you are maybe racing it or constantly thrashing it which the majority of people are not.
Even though I said I'd happily try it out in my bike as the Guinea pig, i also did research, read reviews and the company selling it had 100% positive feedback, and still has 100% feedback after over 61,000 sales. That alone is a good sign.
Now, 4 or 5 years later, I still use it and it still works just fine with zero complaints from me.
Try it yourself if you don't believe me, you might even save a few quid in the process. :lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(22-06-20, 08:20 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Try it yourself if you don't believe me, you might even save a few quid in the process. :lol
Thanks but no thanks, I'll not recommend this oil to anyone, you fill your boots
Later
Carbs balanced, improved response and sound, especially with the new silencer.
Still some rattle noise, tried hitting the kill switch when moving to check if it wasn't engine related and something tapping the frame. The noise goes with the engine off so either it is a component or something being vibrated by the engine running.
I'm not sure the fuel pump is behaving as it should. It seems to prime for longer than I would expect, if I haven't started the bike on half hour it will repeat a loud clicking for a couple of seconds, if I leave overnight this can last 5-10 seconds but I didn't use the bike for near a week and it went on for maybe 20 seconds of clicking. When engine is running it doesn't struggle for fuel so seems to work, but then understand a fuel pump impeller can create a rattle if faulty so may link. Also, had the tank near empty (nothing registering on the gauge) when I went out earlier, I'm convinced the sound was louder but it didn't go instantly when filled up, by the time I got back the engine was hot and the noise had gone.
Also, oil level. Left the bike and oil level went above the sight glass, took for a short run but enough to get engine hot, next day just under the max line again. Not sure why oil level would fluctuate up and down without adding or removing any.
Just to cross it off the list I would check that no fuel pipe is kinked in any way under the tank.
Also make sure the tap is switched fully on.
Oil level should be checked after running the engine for a minute then switching off and let it quickly settle.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
No kinks, checked that when I balanced the carbs, all looks fine. Also, put some carb cleaner through the air box.
Wonder how much of this is due to old fuel, etc which may have been stagnant in the bike. I've gone through a full tank and a bit since i've had it and I've literally done more on it in three weeks than the last three years have seen. Keep using it and may shift it, or try some additive maybe.
But then the more I look in to things the more potentials I find. The exhaust header plates were obviously overtightened for the middle two and have cracks in them, can't feel any air escaping in the short time it takes for them to get to hot to check, but that's something else which makes a ticking noise which is s
I'm conscious of keeping throwing money at it and there being an underlying issue.
28-06-20, 08:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 28-06-20, 08:13 PM by darrsi.)
Regarding the fuel, have you checked the tank air vent is clear? If it wasn't it might struggle at first to pump the fuel if it can't breathe properly?
Next time you start the bike from cold, carefully try starting it with the fuel cap opened and see if the pump works more efficiently.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
I'll get some compressed air and check the Hoses, will need to let the fuel level drop to ensure the tank connections aren't blocked... Mines 99 so has the hoses from the base, they changed around 2000 I believe.
I'll check the cap open. Starting isn't really a problem, give it a little throttle but nothing I'd consider a problem. It's just the amount of clicking, seems abnormal.
Sorry this has taken so long, work has been manic.
The fuel pump behaviour has changed, clicks loudly for longer :rolleyes , filler open or closed it does the same. I switch the ignition on and the pump runs (great, if loud), if I turn off and back on several times it repeats the process for the same length of time roughly every time. My understanding of the operation is that it works on pressure and shouldn't lose it that quickly. When I first got the bike it would click a couple of times each time turned the ignition on (shorter when warm or had not long before primed) as I would expect, not sure why it's doing this now. It is quite loud, video: https://youtu.be/vI0JQTH54Bk. Bike runs fine but don't want to get stranded with a dead pump. Any ideas?
As far as engine is concerned, took it to a mechanic for a listen today, said it was likely the cam chain (https://youtu.be/l4SvuQYGRm4), Suggested loosening the two mounting bolts on the tensioner until clicks on the auto rachet, then wind the mounts back in. Not heard of this method before but would be easier than removing everything to get to it! Any thoughts on this?
(10-07-20, 03:42 PM)FazedBr link Wrote: [size=1em]Sorry this has taken so long, work has been manic.[/size]
[size=1em]The fuel pump behaviour has changed, clicks loudly for longer [/size] :rolleyes , filler open or closed it does the same. I switch the ignition on and the pump runs (great, if loud), if I turn off and back on several times it repeats the process for the same length of time roughly every time. My understanding of the operation is that it works on pressure and shouldn't lose it that quickly. When I first got the bike it would click a couple of times each time turned the ignition on (shorter when warm or had not long before primed) as I would expect, not sure why it's doing this now. It is quite loud, video: https://youtu.be/vI0JQTH54Bk. Bike runs fine but don't want to get stranded with a dead pump. Any ideas?
It's sounds to me as if your pump has had it's day and is indeed not holding pressure.
Quote:[size=1em] As far as engine is concerned, took it to a mechanic for a listen today, said it was likely the cam chain (https://youtu.be/l4SvuQYGRm4), Suggested loosening the two mounting bolts on the tensioner until clicks on the auto rachet, then wind the mounts back in. Not heard of this method before but would be easier than removing everything to get to it! Any thoughts on this? [/size]
Don't do this, you run a high risk of over tensioning and that will bugger the chain and the blades. Now I'm saying this chap is trying a fast one and he could be right but it's very common practice, they tell you it's your cam chain and it's not. They know it charge you for the work and all the do is take the cam cover off, reset the tensioner, reset the air mixture screws and balance the carbs. Job done and you're a good few £100 light.
How many miles as the bike done? Cam chains on Fazers are good for 70k easy I look after one with 85k still on original cam chain. Fazer's do make cam chain noises when the carbs and mixture screws are out and they can the tensioner can get stuck between teeth. Get the crabs balanced first (not be this chap) then take it out an and reset it as per the manual, or put it in second gear and turn the rear wheel backwards by hand.
If none of that works it's very likely it's the cam chain.
Later
[size=1em]Thanks for the info Gnasher. New pump it is then, figure the relay is doing what it should as bike is running. Didn't realise the pump itself lost pressure, thought it may be somewhere else but there are no leaks.[/size]
[size=1em]The bike is showing 17k so wouldn't expect a new chain, may just be waiting for the next click, I don't know but it is frustrating and would like to confirm it's nothing else I should be concerned about. MOTs back to 2006 fit the mileage so think it's legit, it's done 500 miles over the last 3 years and 4000 over the last 9 years by the paperwork.[/size]
[size=1em]I'm pretty sure the rattle while riding is getting worse but the fuel pump is also getting worse at startup, hopefully they may be one in the same thing. [/size]
[size=1em]I'm a long time off bikes until recently, getting back in to it now so don't have a trusted mechanic, the guy I took it to seems to have a good reputation locally.[/size]
17k I'd say there's almost no chance of it being the cam chain and he should know that, sadly he's smelling money. I wouldn't use him again find someone else would be my advice.
Most Fazer's suffer the tensioner issue because they aren't revved enough, the engine likes revs, once warm give them plenty say like 8k 10k in second a few times a week. Just reset the tensioner as per the manual there's a link on here somewhere.
Get the crabs properly balanced and I think you're find the noise will go. You also mention a rattle, another big issue with boxeye Fazer's is the front indicators rattle in the firing mounts, because the foam that's supposed to stop it, is too thin and it degrades. A The best fix is to use silicone, nice neat dollop around the inner interface and that will stop them rattling once set. Next check the drive chain, Fazer's are very sensitive to over tight chains and wheel alignment. You want about between 40 -45mm of play when the chain is pushed/pulled, forget the marks in the swing arm. Measure from the centre of the wheel spindle to the edge of the swingarm where the drive chain puller plate interfaces with the swingarm.
Good luck let us know how you get on.
Later
noise sounds very much like tensioner, personally i wouldnt worry too much it will click on. also it looks like you still have original ht leads, they could be arcing which makes similar noise but you would probably notice when running, but either way get some ngk ones because they will fail soon. if you havent got your carbtune yet then get it from official website, cheaper than ebay and you know your getting a real one. http://www.carbtune.co.uk/
The guy didn't ask the mileage, just listened to it so guess could give him the benefit of the doubt, but you may be right, I need to find a reputable local mechanic. Was trying to avoid taking the carbs, etc out to get to the tensioner but it seems that's not possible especially with my hands. Been giving it some revs since I've had it, it's not in daily use, but most weekends this time of year it will get some use. Perhaps see how it goes over the next few hundred miles and if it doesn't shift I'll get the tensioner off and check it.
Interesting you say about the indicators, didn't know that, will be done this weekend, got some black silicone in the garage. The chain alignment marks are not accurate then, I'll check that, shouldn't be out as chain and sprockets were recent when I bought it but best to check.
Had the carbtune on it today, TPS was also out. At idle it's around 180 mark, had to take it up to about 2.5k revs to get in the 230-250 range. [size=78%]
[/size]
I'd say the HT leads are originals, I replaced the spark plugs only a few weeks ago but original leads. Assume the NGK caps have the same connection, not sure the official name but no screw cap? Else I'm stuck there, threw the tops away :eek .
Answered the spark plug cap question, quite cheap so may be worth doing while sorting the fuel pump out.
10-07-20, 07:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-07-20, 08:43 AM by Gnasher.)
(10-07-20, 06:33 PM)FazedBr link Wrote: [size=1em]Interesting you say about the indicators, didn't know that, will be done this weekend, got some black silicone in the garage. The chain alignment marks are not accurate then, I'll check that, shouldn't be out as chain and sprockets were recent when I bought it but best to check.[/size]
[size=1em]If whoever replaced it may have used the marks if so it's likely it will be out and mm count. [/size]
Quote:Had the carbtune on it today, TPS was also out. At idle it's around 180 mark, had to take it up to about 2.5k revs to get in the 230-250 range.
This is another big hole owners and stealers go down the TPS shouldn't be moved unless it's being replaced, once set it's a datum it doesn't move during use, so if it's not been moving it can't be out. It only works off No4, to set it, No4 must be pulling 230-250Hg if it's not at 1150- 1250rpm the air mixture screw is out, just increasing the revs will not balance them. They will be out at idle and that will give you the cam chain noise. All cylinders must be pulling 230 -250Hg at the spec revs, if not adjust the air mixture screw/s until they're, then balance 3&4, 1&2 then bring each pair into balance. Carbtunes aren't best and can be tricky to set up and use at times, but they should give you a fair result.
Once the above is done and all are pulling the spec Hg and are within 0.4Hg of each other at the spec revs, they're balanced. Now check the TPS and move it if it's out, lock it up and don't touch it again it's now a datum.
Quote:I'd say the HT leads are originals, I replaced the spark plugs only a few weeks ago but original leads. Assume the NGK caps have the same connection, not sure the official name but no screw cap? Else I'm stuck there, threw the tops away :eek .
Cracked HT caps or holed (leeking) leads will not give you cam chain rattle, the bike will tick and will run like a dog as the revs increase. To check, lift the tank, start bike turn out the lights and you'll see the aching, if you don't have a garage do it at night.
Later
10-07-20, 07:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-07-20, 09:18 PM by FazedBr.)
I may leave the caps for now then, I runs fine at revs but I will do the dark test.
Understood on the carb sync, read somewhere about bringing the revs up on the intake I know that for the future. Careful what you read I guess.
Appreciate the advice, got a couple of jobs for the weekend ahead.
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