Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more

[kebab19]

Another option is to replace both compression and rebound adjusters using Racetech's valves.  Even despite the US import tax, they both cost me around £300, plus about £100 for a set of K-tech linear springs. But that depends on your competence twirling spanners to save money here.The basics (bushings, seals etc) also need to be right too or it's a waste of effort. So more like £500 to sort the front properly.

[ogri48]

be worth it guys. a fazer thou with a sorted front end is utterly pukka

[Mustang]

Cheers guys,


Dropped the forks in at K-tech this morning, bit of a shock to the wallet... but thats just how it is. I am in the midlands so MCT  is a bit of a distance for me.


Just rebuilding to stock at the moment, will go from there when I have more budget and time in the winter. I want to experience the front end without completely shot bushings to get a baseline of where I want to go with it.

You could have gone to biketek Tamworth, he did my fireblade forks. All new bushes and seals for £130

[Stinka]

Bikerz in stoke did my knackered forks with ktec linear springs for £205 all in

[Trebus]

For all those that have had them reworked by whoever, are new springs / bushes (if needed) and oil enough to make a significant difference to the ride without the revalving? Or are they still choppy over bumps?

[Trebus]

Kebab, is this what you used? https://www.solomotoparts.com/Race-Tech-...Z-1-01-05/ and how hard are they to fit for a reasonably competent DIYer?

[Stinka]

For all those that have had them reworked by whoever, are new springs / bushes (if needed) and oil enough to make a significant difference to the ride without the revalving? Or are they still choppy over bumps?

My bike is generally harsh at slow speed on shitty rough B roads, but once I’m flying it’s firm but it takes The sting out of high speed bumps 80-100mph. That’s what I wanted tho as I don’t hang about. It’s track bike hard and doesn’t dive much under braking. I’d probably have progressive springs and a proper revalve if you want proper smooth comfort for moderate speed touring

[kebab19]

Kebab, is this what you used? https://www.solomotoparts.com/Race-Tech-...Z-1-01-05/ and how hard are they to fit for a reasonably competent DIYer?

Yes, that's one of the kits, but not sure which one.  With the Racetech kits you can buy the Compression valves on their own,  Rebound valves on their own or both sets of valves together in one kit.  The single kit's serial number is is FMGV S2047, but I bought the set with both compression and rebound valves - serial number FMGV S2047C. If you type S2047 or S2047C into ebay, you can see the kits for sale, such as item #192879930393.

The compression valve is actually pretty easy to replace - you don't need to separate the upper & lower stanchions, just pull the 8mm allen bolts out under neath the bottom of the lowers and lift the inner cartridges come out. After that, add some heat to get the originals off. You could also re-fit the original compression valves back on if for some bizarre reason you wanted to.
The rebound valves are more difficult, requiring drilling out / widening the inner cartridge rods and shortening the little oil damping rods that sit just under the fork caps. Not too difficult IMO but something to bear in mind.
You could just fit the easier compression valves, but I suspect that would further highlight the poor standard rebound effects even more...

 

[Tim270]

Right,


Finally got a MOT on it again after helicoiling the wheel/new disc/pads on the rear. Rebuilt forks back in, although K-Tech put a 10w fork oil in. Took it for about ~140 miles around the peak district.




Night and day difference from those knackered bushings... no more hard knocking through the bars and jerkyness. I am pretty happy with it now.


However, I can see down the road, wanting to improve the setup. I can really notice it wanting to run wide in tight corners, really have to consciously muscle into the turn more on some sharp bends. Now its roughly back to stock, id say for me, its still cant really handle small bumps/pot holes well at all, decent enough on good tarmac/fast roads, apart from the running wide in some circumstances.


up on Snake pass


https://puu.sh/E6sat.jpg

[unfazed]

From their present setting try turning the rebound two clicks in to hard and the compression 2 clicks out to soft.. Slow the rate of rebound is what I eventually did to stop the running wide issue

[Mustang]

I’ve taken my compression dampers out to 5 out from fully soft. It’s about the only way I can stand it on rough roads at modest pace. I’ve ktec 10.5 springs and 2 year old 10w oil

[Falcon 269]

I’ve taken my compression dampers out to 5 out from fully soft. It’s about the only way I can stand it on rough roads at modest pace. I’ve ktec 10.5 springs and 2 year old 10w oil

Do you mean 5 out from fully 'hard', ie max compression damping?


I ask because you should always start damping adjustments with the adjusters fully - lightly - seated and then back them out to decrease the damping.  The reason is that most adjusters will still have several turns out available after reaching minimum damping, if that makes sense?

[Mustang]

[quote author=Mustang link=topic=25493.msg301852#msg301852 date=1566239259]
I’ve taken my compression dampers out to 5 out from fully soft. It’s about the only way I can stand it on rough roads at modest pace. I’ve ktec 10.5 springs and 2 year old 10w oil

Do you mean 5 out from fully 'hard', ie max compression damping?


I ask because you should always start damping adjustments with the adjusters fully - lightly - seated and then back them out to decrease the damping.  The reason is that most adjusters will still have several turns out available after reaching minimum damping, if that makes sense?
[/quote]
Hi mike, I backed out the adjuster to fully soft then added 5 clicks. I remember you saying they have too much comp damping as standard

[Tim270]

Well, Ive taken it for ~600 mile trip camping in Wales and around England over the bank holiday weekend.


It started misfiring slightly towards the end of the first day, managed to rectify that by trimming the end off the offending HT lead.


The suspension, still not happy with at all. Its just so harsh and cant handle anything but perfect tarmac. Ive been toying with settings the full trip, and slacking off the front settings everytime just ends up with unacceptable diving under braking before I reach a plush ride. The rear im not sure is doing much of anything, cant feel it going through the stroke at all, very much a on/off feeling. R6 shock is on the cards, but the front honestly feels a _lot_ worse than the rear.


I think I need to look at new fork internals, but not sure where to start really. REALLY want to know its going to improve it before having to throw serious money at it.


Only other thing is the annoying buzz at 4.5k rpm, sitting at 70mph in top gear its nothing but irritating buzzing. Anyone played with the gearing to get around this?


https://puu.sh/Ea8nE.jpg

[kebab19]

The suspension, still not happy with at all. Its just so harsh and cant handle anything but perfect tarmac. Ive been toying with settings the full trip, and slacking off the front settings everytime just ends up with unacceptable diving under braking before I reach a plush ride. The rear im not sure is doing much of anything, cant feel it going through the stroke at all, very much a on/off feeling. R6 shock is on the cards, but the front honestly feels a _lot_ worse than the rear.

I think I need to look at new fork internals, but not sure where to start really. REALLY want to know its going to improve it before having to throw serious money at it.

https://puu.sh/Ea8nE.jpg

Sounds like nothing less than a revalve or replacement of the compression & rebound valves, along with springs appropriate for your weight will do the job for you. If sticking with the standard forks, RaceTech are cheapest but only if you can DIY (fork springs & valves about £400).  After that, Maxton & K-Tech charge between £600-725 to alter existing valves or replace them respectively.
The R1 fork conversion was / is quite popular but if unlucky the forks may need rebuilt and you may need to re-spring them to cope with the heavier Fazer. 

Although biased, I found my R6 5SL fork conversion to be the most cost effective fork option, although I'm not sure how standard the internals of my R6 forks were:https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/fazer100...t4229.htmlIf you sourced the right set, could be as cheap as £200 to convert, but the quality of second-hand forks are always a bit of a gamble...

[Trebus]

Maybe changing the springs would help? I’m still undecided what to do. It sounds as though the MCT service only involves cleaning out and new oil/ springs so could do that myself but it would still be £100+.

[kebab19]

Just a final say on my own FZS1000 front-end experience, which unfortunately has been considerable.
First FZS1000 owned 2009-2013

1. Ravenrider spring mod & 5w oil.  Too Harsh
   
2. Hyperpro springs and 2.5w oil. A bit of an improvement over standard, but not enough for me.
   
3. 4VX R1 fork conversion. Much better, but standard springs were soft.  Ordered linear springs.
   
4. 5JJ R1 forks with Ohlins internals & the linear springs. Popped up whilst I was flush so went for 'em.  Perfect, but I wasn't working for a while & ran out of money around 2012, so had to sell them again.
   
5. 5SL R6 forks. Very good compared to standard Fazer forks, but standard Japanese valving is never as good as aftermarket stuff.
   

Current FZS1000 2017-present.

1. Linear fork springs & 2.5w oil. Damping felt harsh.
   
2. Stripdown of forks, new bushes & seals then linear springs back in with 5w oil. Still felt harsh no matter what way I turned the dampers. Realised that the damping valves were the problem.
   
3. Racetech Compression & Rebound valves, along with 5w, then 7.5w oil. Rebound is perfect, still tinkering a bit with compression settings hence fork oil changes.
   

I'm probably a bit fussy over forks... but there is no getting away from the fact that on bumpy roads the standard valving is poor.  Different weight fork oils can mask this but cannot cure it.

[Tim270]

Cheers for that mate. Does seem like a minefield....




I think if I go for new internals on the stock forks im going to end up at the budget of R1 + springs.  So R1 seems to make the most sense then.

[ogri48]

I honestly think youve been unfortunate and not caught it in time, and the internal walls of the outer leg have been too worn by the bushes. My 04 with the mct set is one of the best handling bikes ive owned. perhaps the r6 front end is the way forward. really sorry youve had this grief and expense, they really are superb bikes but they are getting older now

[Mustang]

Aren’t the R1 and R6 forks shorter than stock though? How do you overcome this?