Cornering

[noggythenog]

Something i was tought with 4 wheeled driving is that when cornering you are applying throttle to compensate for the reduction in speed caused by the corner itself.


As you turn the corner there is a natural sap of speed.......same as ships....to slow down they sometimes make a turn.....it uses up energy.....that energy is transferring to your tyres and turning into heat.


So the throttle in a corner is just enoughto replace that speed loss (energy loss) to keep everything neutral and settled, not to accelerate.


What i find difficult on a bike as opposed to cars is that as i throw myself round a corner i find it difficult to physically hold the throttle at a steady position, especially if theres any bumps mid way round and ive been cought out accudentally throttling on too much by mistake.

[fazersharp]

So the throttle in a corner is just enoughto replace that speed loss (energy loss) to keep everything neutral and settled, not to accelerate.

I thought that was normal - otherwise you are coasting around a corner which case you are more likely to loose grip.

[noggythenog]

[quote author=noggythenog link=topic=25373.msg299505#msg299505 date=1560764731]

So the throttle in a corner is just enoughto replace that speed loss (energy loss) to keep everything neutral and settled, not to accelerate.

I thought that was normal - otherwise you are coasting around a corner which case you are more likely to loose grip.
[/quote]


No dude what i mean is whatever throttle you have on entering the corner needs to be increased slightly whilst going round in order to keep the same speed.


If you kept same throttle from entering as during then you'd slow down due to the corner scrubbing off  some of the energy.

[Salty]

Also as you lean over, the effective diameter of your wheel is reduced because you are moving from the crown of the tyres to the shoulder of the tread. This means that you would then be travelling at a slower speed than your corner entry speed unless you open the throttle to compensate.

[VNA]

Also as you lean over, the effective diameter of your wheel is reduced because you are moving from the crown of the tyres to the shoulder of the tread. This means that you would then be travelling at a slower speed than your corner entry speed unless you open the throttle to compensate.

I think you are wrong on both counts.  The tyre must maintain it’s diameter across it’s width.  If you have a varying diameter depending on where on the tread you are you will have one very weird handling bike.  This is why we don’t like worn tyres, particularly say tyres that have worn down in the centre but still have plenty of meat on the sides.  Why?  Because every time you tip into a corner the wheel is forced to slow and you can feel that as the bike twitches into the turn.  Even worse is a rear worn badly in the centre with a front badly worn on the sides.  The front wheel then speeds up as the rear slows on entering a corner which = evil handling.



Ps when I say leaning – I mean the rider leaning.  Yes the bike must lean to make a turn but the rider does not necessarily have to.  The bike is forced into a lean by input at the bars.

[His Dudeness]

[Flooky]

Also as you lean over, the effective diameter of your wheel is reduced because you are moving from the crown of the tyres to the shoulder of the tread. This means that you would then be travelling at a slower speed than your corner entry speed unless you open the throttle to compensate.

I think you are wrong on both counts.  The tyre must maintain it’s diameter across it’s width.  If you have a varying diameter depending on where on the tread you are you will have one very weird handling bike.  This is why we don’t like worn tyres, particularly say tyres that have worn down in the centre but still have plenty of meat on the sides.  Why?  Because every time you tip into a corner the wheel is forced to slow and you can feel that as the bike twitches into the turn.  Even worse is a rear worn badly in the centre with a front badly worn on the sides.  The front wheel then speeds up as the rear slows on entering a corner which = evil handling.



Ps when I say leaning – I mean the rider leaning.  Yes the bike must lean to make a turn but the rider does not necessarily have to.  The bike is forced into a lean by input at the bars.

So the diameter of the tyre is the same at the crown as at the edge VNA ?  you better get back to the Brexit thread ..

[Flooky]

Maybe you got a sidecar...or a shit tape measure

[YamFazFan]

:lol

[Farmboy81]

I think actually the diameter would be the same when leaning? (relative to the ground) If you measure it vertically, then when the tyre is leaning left, the top is the right hand side? Wouldn't that be the same distance as top to bottom when the tyre's upright?

I dunno, I've confused myself now...

[Flooky]

This thread is pants, and misleading for some one who asked a question.
You can steer a bike without bar input (remember the white helmet display team, the fella that climbed a ladder on the back and steered AROUND the arena )...also when you let go of the bars to do up your gloves you can still steer with your foot pressure on the pegs.
Tyre diameter is less at the edge (go round a series of bends at a steady throttle opening in the same gear and the revs will rise and fall as you tip in from upright as the gearing of the bike changes)
And Kevin Scwantz was talking about braking , when asked "when do you brake for a corner " he replied when I see god.
Sorry.

[fazersharp]

Slowing down on entering a corner has nothing to do with the hypotenuse formula of the gyroscopic effect translated to the coefficient of friction diameter based on the angle of corner entry, its cause you have scared yourself and backed off the throttle - which is why you still have chicken strips  :lol 

[noggythenog]

I'm confused by my own shit now.......it was def mentioned in relation to cars.....and ships do it.........maybe bikes are totally different........forget about contact patch on the road and think more about heat loss during cornering or energy loss.....or do tyres not get hot whilst cornering.....or are they just as hot whilst cornering as they are in a straight line?......think on that foccers, this thread is good i reckon it could end up a good thread of nonsense :lol


Anyway to keep flooky happy.....the answer is you know when the limit is reached when you fall off.....i suppose chicken strips could also be called in the bag strips.....something extra in the bag for when shit goes wrong so that you dont fall off......mmmm....chicken.....in the bag.....chicken in the bag.......so hungry


Always carry a bag of KFC when considering riding near or at the limit.... :b

[Grahamm]

You can steer a bike without bar input

Yes, to a small extent, but I wouldn't want to try *cornering* like that!!

[YamFazFan]

Always carry a bag of KFC when considering riding near or at the limit.... :b

You certainly will be if the grease leaks out of it :lol

[fazersharp]

in relation to ships .........maybe bikes are totally different........

By- all-the-gods !!! I think you may be on to something. :rollin

[VNA]

Y

ou can steer a bike without bar input (remember the white helmet display team, the fella that climbed a ladder on the back and steered AROUND the arena )...also when you let go of the bars to do up your gloves you can still steer with your foot pressure on the pegs.

Yes at low speed there are a number of ways of steering the bike, but at speed there is only one way to make the bike turn and that is input to the bars. 

[VNA]

The “No Countersteering” Myth
https://www.ridinginthezone.com/the-no-c...ring-myth/

[robbo]

If you follow motorcycle racing MotoGp/WSB, when the director cuts to an onboard camera, you'll hear the revs rise as the bike is cranked over, the gearing has effectively been altered as the bike's on the edge of the tyre. The speed remains the same, but with an increase in engine revs, as the rear wheel diameter has momentarily become smaller.

[Flooky]

Hold on, I am just saying you can steer a bike without the bars, no one said anything about at speed, VNA said you can go to work without leaning at all...well I would be fukin late for work.. I don't even know where this chicken strip shit comes from, just cos your leaning over far doesn't mean your going fast, I don't worry about mine cos I have a normal size cock, and where ships come into it fuk knows...like I said this thread is pants.
I just think some good advice when a fella asks a question is nice, at the moment he is changing all his suspension, trying to keep upright while making sure his tyres are the same diameter right across and have no shiny bits...
P.s  you can tighten your line if your running wide by trailing the back brake.(its cheaper than ohlins too ).the only good advice was you go where you look.
sorry again