BREXIT

[mtread]

Agree completely. That's why it's still a mess. The trouble with referendums is that unless the majority is a big one, the 'problem' continues. The Proportional Representation referendum in 2011 was 32% Yes and 68% No, and we all stopped arguing about that straight away.

[VNA]

The trouble with referendums is that unless the majority is a big one, the 'problem' continues.

The other fact is that this was a referendum offered to the people in order to try and resolve matters internal to the Tory party. 



It was slipped into a manifesto safe in the knowledge that it would not actually have to be put to the people, and on the basis, well if it did actually have to be offered - nobody in reality would be daft enough to vote to leave the EU. 



David Cameron made perhaps the biggest blunder in UK political history.


Meanwhile we are still stuck.  The current parliament will not allow a NO DEAL BREXIT.  The Good Friday Agreement, in which peace in Northern Ireland and across the UK depends, requires at least a full customs union to be in place.  That is a legal and moral commitment.


Two out of four countries in our union voted to REMAIN in the EU.


And never mind that our economy and manufacturing jobs depend on EU membership.


We really have no choice.  We need to move on.  It is time to cancel article 50.

[YamFazFan]

We really have no choice.  We need to move on.  It is time to cancel article 50.

You know full well that's not going to happen. There wouldn't be a Parliamentary majority for it. Nowhere near.


A second referendum would be more likely.

[vinnyb]

[quote author=YamFazFan link=topic=24678.msg298356#msg298356 date=1558988690]
[quote author=Grahamm link=topic=24678.msg298347#msg298347 date=1558986376]
Now try showing us one weighted by population (you know, the *number* of people who voted) instead of area, because, surprisingly, large sections of empty space don't actually vote...  :rolleyes

Sorted :thumbup ...
[/quote]

Err, no, that just shows areas, not the number of people.

Whilst you're looking for that, here's some interesting figures on the number of votes for you...

The Brexit Party - 5,248,533
UKIP -                      554,463

Total - 5,802,996


Lib Dems -  3,367,284
Greens    -  2,023,380
SNP -            594,553
Plaid Cymru - 163,928
Change UK  - 571,846

Total - 6,720,991


Oh and PS, the number of people who signed the petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU - 6,085,326

[/quote]
  Minus the Green vote, which could be as much down to David Attenborough and the fact that the environmental crisis is never out of the news at the moment, as it is Brexit and it's 4,697,611 against 5,802,996.
All anyone can do is speculate on the reasons people voted the way they did, and even then that's only the third who could be arsed to vote at all.

[mtread]

Two out of four countries in our union voted to REMAIN in the EU.

One country and one province 

David Cameron made perhaps the biggest blunder in UK political history.

I think May comes a close second. If, straight after the referendum, she had ignored her hard Brexit ERG and approached Labour to agree to go to the EU for a soft Brexit, (rightly or wrongly) we'd be out by now. The parliamentary majority would be there, despite the hard Brexiteers or Remainers. But of course her pride /obstinacy /self interest meant she wouldn't. Her tactics were stupid. That's how history will judge her.

[VNA]

Y

ou know full well that's not going to happen. There wouldn't be a Parliamentary majority for it. Nowhere near.

The likely hood is Labour will now become a REMAIN party.  Even the minority who are genuinely for BREXIT within the Labour party will accept the REMAIN position as few, or none, of that minority want to see a disastrous NO DEAL BREXIT.


The likely hood is that we will probably get a hard or NO DEAL BREXIT PM.


There are some decent Tories who are prepared to put country before party.  They will vote down NO DEAL, and if they feel the Union is at risk they will vote down article 50.


It may not happen, but the stakes are higher and more desperate than ever now, so there is a real possibility that article 50 will be cancelled.


And do not forget that the outcome of the EU elections is Labour becoming a REMAIN party.


Thanks Nige

[mtread]

  Minus the Green vote, which could be as much down to David Attenborough and the fact that the environmental crisis is never out of the news at the moment, as it is Brexit and it's 4,697,611 against 5,802,996.

Are you making this up  :lol The Green Party have been absolutely clear they are a Remain Party since the beginning.
A lot of us Remainers voted tactically between Lib Dems and Green to maximise the number of MEPs for the two parties.

[VNA]

One country and one province  [img alt= width=15 height=15]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/02/clip_image001.gif[/img]

Stop it you pompous twat. :lol

I think May comes a close second. If, straight after the referendum, she had ignored her hard Brexit ERG and approached Labour to agree to go to the EU for a soft Brexit, (rightly or wrongly) we'd be out by now. The parliamentary majority would be there, despite the hard Brexiteers or Remainers. But of course her pride /obstinacy /self interest meant she wouldn't. Her tactics were stupid. That's how history will judge her.

Totally agree.  She is totally unsuited to leadership.  You cannot act as dictator within a minority administration.

[VNA]

Are you making this up  [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img] The Green Party have been absolutely clear they are a Remain Party since the beginning.

Indeed.  You would not vote Green if you fundamentally opposed the EU.  The Green Party is a pro EU party – no question.

[VNA]

[mtread]

I wish to announce......... that I will not be standing as a candidate for leader of the Conservative Party.

[slimwilly]

The sooner we are out the better, do what the voters voted for as the result for the referendum.
Even the no deal will be a result then the country can get on rebuilding Great Britain,,and build a wall between Scotland and England again.

[YamFazFan]

And do not forget that the outcome of the EU elections is Labour becoming a REMAIN party.


Thanks Nige

...and their subsequent loss of over 5 million Labour voters who voted Leave in the EU referendum.


Yep thanks Nige :lol

[YamFazFan]

Indeed.  You would not vote Green if you fundamentally opposed the EU.  The Green Party is a pro EU party – no question.

25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently

[vinnyb]

[quote author=VNA link=topic=24678.msg298424#msg298424 date=1559067823]
Indeed.  You would not vote Green if you fundamentally opposed the EU.  The Green Party is a pro EU party – no question.

25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently

[/quote]
That's obviously a big fat lie. It's a well known fact (Known by at least 2 people) that every single person who voted Green, only voted for them because they are anti Brexit, they don't actually give a toss about the environment and the big move to Green parties throughout Europe is entirely Brexit related too by the way.

[YamFazFan]

Just a couple of Light Ales in the Hand and Racquet 

That's a positive blow-out compared with the 3 steaming hot mugs of chicory essence No Change UK shared leaning up against Fred's Pie Stall in the market square

[VNA]

Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019...ld-europe/

But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.
BREXIT will destroy manufactering in the UK.

[Grahamm]

[quote author=Grahamm link=topic=24678.msg298364#msg298364 date=1558994621]
Err, no, that just shows areas, not the number of people.

Yes I was aware of that Grahamm . I just liked the look of it and knew that you wouldn't :lol .
[/quote]

I don't give a damn about the "look" of it. It just shows nothing helpful or useful to back up your claims.

[Grahamm]

[quote author=Grahamm link=topic=24678.msg298364#msg298364 date=1558994621]
Oh and PS, the number of people who signed the petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU - 6,085,326

'The number of people who signed the petition'...that's a bold claim claim given the findings of exactly who, or rather what, has 'voted', and how many times, in previous online petitions [/quote]

Ah, yes, the Leave voters who were *so* confident in their "victory" that they had to try to sabotage the petition.

Which is why the Petition Site put in place robust methods to ensure that fake votes and bots and invalid foreign vote etc etc were screened out.

By the way, remind us how many people signed the "Leave" petition.

I'll stick to the only count that truly matters thanks Grahamm. The election system where only real, registered and eligible voters participate

Yeah, about that... UK government may face court action after EU citizens denied vote

[Grahamm]

  Minus the Green vote, which could be as much down to David Attenborough and the fact that the environmental crisis is never out of the news at the moment, as it is Brexit and it's 4,697,611 against 5,802,996.

Err, WTF? The Green Party has been in favour of Remain from the start!!