Focer Font of knowledge speaker power RMS and stuff

[fazersharp]

I deed to replace a little sound system and the one I am looking to buy has a Speaker power 20 W (10 W + 10 W)
But I already have speakers in position and I upgraded the wire to 42/0.15mm 3x6mm (whatever that is )My worry is using the in-situ speakers with the new system as I do not know what my current speakers power is. Looking down the back in an air hole thing I can see printed on the speaker I think it says 5W 8 ohlms but that is only on the small speaker as the bigger one has not got a hole. They are small at  20 x18x13
The online manual says this
Use the speakers only with the recommended system.If not, you can cause damage to the amplifier andspeakers and can cause a fire. Consult an approvedservice personnel if damage occurs or if there is a sudden apparent change in performance
The spec for the new system speakers is --- Speaker power 20 W (10 W + 10 W)So would it be ok to use the in situ speakers or would I actually get a better sound with the new spec speakers.I do not have any info on the old system. 

[mickvp]

The important question is what is driving the new system? What is the output of your system (amplifier/hifi etc).

Upgrading 5W speakers with 10W speakers is not beneficial if your system is only outputting 5W. Ideally you want the RMS speaker power paired to the output of your device to get a reasonable performance without spending too much money.

[darrsi]

Must be a model number of your current system you can look up and it will tell you the specs.
I'd be surprised if upgrading wires on speakers that small would make any difference at all either.

[fazersharp]

The important question is what is driving the new system? What is the output of your system (amplifier/hifi etc).

Upgrading 5W speakers with 10W speakers is not beneficial if your system is only outputting 5W. Ideally you want the RMS speaker power paired to the output of your device to get a reasonable performance without spending too much money.

Thanks for the help. This is the system I am looking at getting, https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/audio-and-...lsrc=aw.ds

  so not the hi end of sound. It is only for the kitchen and it is sort of buried in the wall which is why it needs to be that sort of size to replace the kaput one. Its a pantry that has its wall in the kitchen so it sits on a pantry shelf with its "face" flush to the kitchen wall giving the impression of a panel sound system (at least until you go for a tin of beans ) and open the door.

So is it ok to use lower power speakers with a higher power unit.

[fazersharp]

Must be a model number of your current system you can look up and it will tell you the specs.
I'd be surprised if upgrading wires on speakers that small would make any difference at all either.

I have tried but it is so old I can not find it - it is  a Fusion 001 cd player with radio.
Good point on the speaker wire up grade. The speaker wires that come with systems always look s crap to me - no better than bell wire and so when I installed the current system I brought the wire separately. 

[fazersharp]

Here are the pictures of it below. So my plan is to chop it out ( its only plaster ) and replace with the new one but use my current speakers. One reason is that I do not think the new system will come with speaker wire long enough -- also it is hard wired into the new speakers so I can not just use the existing wire.The current system speakers has peg ? clips that the wire gos into at the back of the speaker.I probably brought it from either currys dixons or comet and is at least 15 years old

[mickvp]

You should be able to extend the speaker wire on the current speakers without much hassle (might need to open them up mind).

It’s hard to say for sure if you can run the new unit with the old speakers (as you don’t really know what power the driver is rated to, only the tweeter at the top?). I would imagine it is fine but then if the speakers are 15 years old as well you probably won’t be getting the best out the new system either.

If it was me I would be trying to extend the wires on the new speakers and run with them. You could probably splice an extension o to the current wires without stripping the speakers part. For the amount of wattage running through them a simple soldered joint should be good enough).

[fazersharp]

You should be able to extend the speaker wire on the current speakers without much hassle (might need to open them up mind).

It’s hard to say for sure if you can run the new unit with the old speakers (as you don’t really know what power the driver is rated to, only the tweeter at the top?). I would imagine it is fine but then if the speakers are 15 years old as well you probably won’t be getting the best out the new system either.

If it was me I would be trying to extend the wires on the new speakers and run with them. You could probably splice an extension o to the current wires without stripping the speakers part. For the amount of wattage running through them a simple soldered joint should be good enough).

So if the new system speaker wire is not long enough what if I use the new speakers and their fixed at the speaker rear wire and roll it it up and clip it at at the rear of them and attach the wire end to the already installed wire coming out of the wall. Which is a thicker upgraded one. So that I am not buying extra wire that is as thin as the new system to attach to the new system to make it long enough which I could draw through the ceiling by attaching it too the current thicker wire that I would use to draw it through.

[mickvp]

Aye. That’s what I’m getting at. You’ll lose any benefit over the “thicker wire” which as Dazza said is negligible at this kind of power anyway. Might be worth thinking about cutting the wire short rather than coiling it. You can try coiling it like that but if you get bad interference odds are that’s where it will be coming from.

[fazersharp]

Aye. That’s what I’m getting at. You’ll lose any benefit over the “thicker wire” which as Dazza said is negligible at this kind of power anyway. Might be worth thinking about cutting the wire short rather than coiling it. You can try coiling it like that but if you get bad interference odds are that’s where it will be coming from.

Hmmm the problemis by cutting the wire I am voiding my warranty.


Also glad you can still understand me because I also stoor my beer in the pantry - perfect temperature   

[Fazerider]

After 15 years use in a kitchen environment the old speaker cones are probably getting a bit soft, but I’d do a side by side comparison before deciding which pair to use.

[darrsi]

They are very low end speakers, the wire will be virtually irrelevant at that sort of power level, you could use mains cable and not know any difference. In fact at 5w i can see the cable you're using is probably complete overkill.


Speakers these days, apart from being new, are much more compact and the small fact that the new ones are double the output will make them sound much better than your old ones anyway.


The wires maybe fixed at the speaker end but shouldn't be at the unit end, so should be easy enough to extend, just try and get a similar wire thickness.

[fazersharp]

After 15 years use in a kitchen environment the old speaker cones are probably getting a bit soft, but I’d do a side by side comparison before deciding which pair to use.

Good point about the age of the speakers, when I took the front fabric cover off the plastic frame was so brittle the lugs crumbled and snapped. The speakers are high up the wall touching the ceiling on a bracket and the back of them is a bit sticky.
   

They are very low end speakers, the wire will be virtually irrelevant at that sort of power level, you could use mains cable and not know any difference. In fact at 5w i can see the cable you're using is probably complete overkill.

I am unsure what power my old speakers are all I can find is ink stamped on the back of the top tweeter is 5.W 8 ohms also on the back of the speaker wooded body there is a label that I think says 8ohms - but I have a scrwe hole going through it for my bracket. Would it make sense that 5W is 8 ohms.
Just thought of something, I can use my borescope that I brought after another one of my focer font questions. There may only be one speaker in the box and the other is fake.

[fazersharp]

Here are the photos from the boroscope after inserting through the port (learnt that it is not a hole ). The first one is the tweeter speaker that I can see by eye down the port and the second one is the lower bigger speaker but I do not know what the numbers mean. The 5W 8 ohms on the small top speaker is that just for that one and then to get the whole speaker power I need to add them both up.
The new system speakers are 2x10W =20w output from the amp ( is that the correct way to describe it )
Until the warranty has ran out on the new system I want to get away with using the old speakers if I can.
But what will happen if for example the old speakers are 5W but the new system is 10W. Also what about the other way around if the new system output was 5W but the old speakers were 10w

[Fazerider]

The matching of power ratings between amp and speakers is not a precise science.
Loudspeaker distortion is not as unpleasant as amplifier clipping so I prefer to err on the side of having a beefier amp (within reason). Any modern amp will have protection circuitry that cuts the output in the event of an internal fault, so the chances of the speakers bursting into flames is not worth worrying about.

[fazersharp]

The matching of power ratings between amp and speakers is not a precise science.
Loudspeaker distortion is not as unpleasant as amplifier clipping so I prefer to err on the side of having a beefier amp (within reason). Any modern amp will have protection circuitry that cuts the output in the event of an internal fault, so the chances of the speakers bursting into flames is not worth worrying about.

Ok so I can have a more powerful amp than speakers but what about if the speakers are more powerful than the amp - would that damage the amp. I any case the equipment is either 5 10 or 20 W 

[darrsi]

[quote author=Fazerider link=topic=25303.msg298390#msg298390 date=1559042521]

The matching of power ratings between amp and speakers is not a precise science.
Loudspeaker distortion is not as unpleasant as amplifier clipping so I prefer to err on the side of having a beefier amp (within reason). Any modern amp will have protection circuitry that cuts the output in the event of an internal fault, so the chances of the speakers bursting into flames is not worth worrying about.

Ok so I can have a more powerful amp than speakers but what about if the speakers are more powerful than the amp - would that damage the amp. I any case the equipment is either 5 10 or 20 W
[/quote]


Either way it will probably distort the sound so you will no doubt turn the volume back down anyway.

[fazersharp]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=25303.msg298393#msg298393 date=1559043516]
[quote author=Fazerider link=topic=25303.msg298390#msg298390 date=1559042521]

The matching of power ratings between amp and speakers is not a precise science.
Loudspeaker distortion is not as unpleasant as amplifier clipping so I prefer to err on the side of having a beefier amp (within reason). Any modern amp will have protection circuitry that cuts the output in the event of an internal fault, so the chances of the speakers bursting into flames is not worth worrying about.

Ok so I can have a more powerful amp than speakers but what about if the speakers are more powerful than the amp - would that damage the amp. I any case the equipment is either 5 10 or 20 W
[/quote]


Either way it will probably distort the sound so you will no doubt turn the volume back down anyway.
[/quote]I do like it turned up to 11  :lol

[fazersharp]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=25303.msg298397#msg298397 date=1559047815]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=25303.msg298393#msg298393 date=1559043516]
[quote author=Fazerider link=topic=25303.msg298390#msg298390 date=1559042521]

The matching of power ratings between amp and speakers is not a precise science.
Loudspeaker distortion is not as unpleasant as amplifier clipping so I prefer to err on the side of having a beefier amp (within reason). Any modern amp will have protection circuitry that cuts the output in the event of an internal fault, so the chances of the speakers bursting into flames is not worth worrying about.

Ok so I can have a more powerful amp than speakers but what about if the speakers are more powerful than the amp - would that damage the amp. I any case the equipment is either 5 10 or 20 W
[/quote]


Either way it will probably distort the sound so you will no doubt turn the volume back down anyway.
[/quote]I do like it turned up to 11  :lol
[/quote]Would there be any issue in attaching the new speakers cable to the old and therefore having extra long wire. And should each speaker have the same length wire.

[Fazerider]

[quote author=Fazerider link=topic=25303.msg298390#msg298390 date=1559042521]

The matching of power ratings between amp and speakers is not a precise science.
Loudspeaker distortion is not as unpleasant as amplifier clipping so I prefer to err on the side of having a beefier amp (within reason). Any modern amp will have protection circuitry that cuts the output in the event of an internal fault, so the chances of the speakers bursting into flames is not worth worrying about.

Ok so I can have a more powerful amp than speakers but what about if the speakers are more powerful than the amp - would that damage the amp. I any case the equipment is either 5 10 or 20 W
[/quote]
No, you won’t damage the amplifier by driving speakers rated for a higher power, surprisingly the risk is actually to the speakers! If you don’t get enough volume there is a temptation that you’ll turn the amplifier up to the point where it distorts, this generates higher frequencies and can create enough to burn out the tweeter. You’d need to be a bit cloth-eared to do this, but it happens quite often.