FAQ: ULEZ charge and how it effects you!

[YamFazFan]

If the FZS600 can get an exemption there's hope for everyone!. No chance I'll bet.

[Arfa]

Really not sure, seems it certainly fails the Euro-2 standard on CO2 emissions alone (14.8g/km - https://www.ultimatespecs.com/motorcycle...fazer-1999). Whereas Euro-2 and Euro-3 stipulate CO2 limits of 5.5 g/km and 2 g/km.


But as far as NOx emissions I can't find anything. :-( If it's below that 0.15 g/km limit for Euro-3, there's a chance the FZS600 could live on in London!


Euro emission standards: https://www.transportpolicy.net/standard...emissions/

[mtread]

Just checked my V5s. Like I suspect everybody else's, my FZS600 doesn't show a NOx figure. My 2015 Tiger 800 shows 0.117 (pass), but my (fuel injection) 2004 Speed Triple shows 0.160 (just fail). So I think we will be lucky to get the 600s and 1000s low enough.


Having said that, if there are no NOx figures registered with dvla for our bikes, shouldn't we be given the benefit of the doubt?


My diesel Mondeo is showing 0.225  :eek On the other hand, any VW that's ever been built passes with flying colours  :lol

[b1k3rdude]

So as I suspected the FZS1000 is technically Euro3 compliant and all we need is a Cert to continue to ride out bikes in London -

- http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907...rdseen#new

[b1k3rdude]

filler post see next page...

[b1k3rdude]

04-03-2019 MAG recommends ULEZ ‘breathing space’ for motorcycles

MAG has asked London authorities to allow time with bikers to prevent an angry, administratively nightmarish chaos over ULEZ charges for motorcycles.

MAG met with former Chair of the Transport Committee on the Greater London Authority, Keith Prince AM, at London’s City Hall to seek a postponement for motorcycles from the ULEZ pollution charges for older motorbikes. This was supplemented by a formal letter (link HERE) to the Mayor, Sadiq Khan, requesting the postponement.  Reasons identified for the postponement of the charges include:

• The Mayor and TfL haven’t yet grasped issues relating to the introduction of the ULEZ charge for older bikes. This means eleventh-hour panic could lead to ill-considered, knee jerk decisions from bikers and also from policy makers.
  
• Postponing ULEZ on motorcycles has a tiny impact on emissions. By TfL’s own figures fewer than 4,000 bikes will be non-compliant with Euro 3 – a figure itself already declining through entirely legitimate individual exemptions.
  
• ULEZ as it stands means the certainty of injustice, as one biker can be charged whilst riding next to a biker with an identical bike that’s exempt.
  
• Postponement can still lead to charging in 2021 if evidence proves the case for it. Currently TfL has no meaningful evidence on motorcycle emissions, nor effective modelling techniques to know the positive effect of modal shift to powered two wheelers. A delay provides time to measure real world emissions and journey time-savings – which will also reduce congestion and thus secondary emissions.
  
• The social impact on the poorest road users, who can often only afford older motorcycles and scooters for their commuting needs, has been totally ignored and turns the ULEZ charges into a regressive tax against the least wealthy.
  
• TfL has yet to justify the disproportionate effect of charging motorcycles, which would have to pay the same as older cars, while newer cars get in for free.
  

MAG’s Director of Communications & Public Affairs, Lembit Öpik, warns: ‘there’s a pressing need to take all of this into account to avoid administrative nightmares and injustices. Many motorcycles facing the charge are operating at emissions levels below the ULEZ emissions thresholds. TfL would be obliged to refund any payments made by those riders. So let’s be sensible and postpone this charge, before the whole thing descends into chaos.’

So I have renewed my ancient subs to MAG, due to the work they are doing on our behalf regarding ULEZ.

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A fellow Foccer has been trying to get his bike made exempt and you should follow his progress in the following thread-

- http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=24907...#msg294007

[mtread]

FZS600 is a no no.... (see below from Yamaha) might be worth someone asking about the FZ6


Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your enquiry.
We do however regret to advise that only models constructed to comply with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval, regulations that were not fully introduced until 2003, will qualify for a CoC.
Due to the age of your machine it was not subject to European Whole Type Approval testing, in this instance we can only advise the NOx output for the Model code, therefore a machine of that model of a similar age, which was 0.185 (g/km).
We apologise we are not able to be of assistance.
Kind Regards


Customer Service

[mtread]

This is interesting

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/u...e_euro_3_m
MAG's recent Freedom of Information request to TFL about exemptions. From tfl's response it looks like exemptions will have to be on a bike by bike basis, rather than attributed to whole models.

[midden]

FZS600 is a no no.... (see below from Yamaha) might be worth someone asking about the FZ6


Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your enquiry.
We do however regret to advise that only models constructed to comply with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval, regulations that were not fully introduced until 2003, will qualify for a CoC.
Due to the age of your machine it was not subject to European Whole Type Approval testing, in this instance we can only advise the NOx output for the Model code, therefore a machine of that model of a similar age, which was 0.185 (g/km).
We apologise we are not able to be of assistance.
Kind Regards


Customer Service

what year is you fox  mtread

[mtread]

2003 model, registered in Nov 2002. Last of the Foxeyes with the tuning forks logo on the tank. Don't think they come any later.

[nick crisp]

If they spell emissions correctly, it could possibly affect me. But no, not while there are grammatical errors to be found  :b


/grammar nazi

[mtread]

Grammar and Spelling are two entirely different things :b


/pedant nazi

[b1k3rdude]

So I have done a freedom of info request to TFL - I want to know exactly what kit is required to test bikes for NOx and create a CoC.

Superbikehire in east london atm are the only place I know of, but they are charging £175 and they wont guarantee a pass - smells like a cash gouging scam so decided I would like to know how they can justify this cost and why some bikes wont pass.

[mtread]

As someone who has had to answer FOI requests in the past, I fear you will be fobbed off. TFL will say that any testing station /dealer that has approved kit for testing NOx to a Euro 3 standard can provide TFL with results. So far only one dealer has applied to do this, but they have asked for others to apply. The fee is a commercial decision by the garage, nothing to do with them.
The CoC is the result of the test carried out by the manufacturer. A trustworthy source.
The question needing to be asked is why don't TFL accept that bikes of the same model /year as one that has a CoC should also be exempted? Why do all bikes of the same type need their own CoC, when they are identical (in terms of NOx).
As I said, anybody taken to court for a bike identical to one TFL have passed, would win.

[b1k3rdude]

• So far only one dealer has applied to do this, but they have asked for others to apply.
  
• The CoC is the result of the test carried out by the manufacturer. A trustworthy source.
  

• That exactly why I have made an Foi request, why has only one dealer in all of London done this.
  
• SuperBikeHire are saying they produce CoC reports - what makes them more or as trustworthy as a manufacturer?
  

Anyway a summary of my Foi request -

Dear Mr xxxxxx
TfL Ref: FOI-0565-1920
Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 24[sup]th[/sup] May 2019 asking for information about the equipment used to test motorcycles for ULEZ exemption.
Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy. 
A response will be sent to you by 24[sup]th[/sup] June 2019. We publish a substantial range of information on our website on subjects including operational performance, contracts, expenditure, journey data, governance and our financial performance. This includes data which is frequently asked for in FOI requests or other public queries. Please check http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/ to see if this helps you.
We will publish anonymised versions of requests and responses on the www.tfl.gov.uk website. We will not publish your name and we will send a copy of the response to you before it is published on our website.
In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
xxxx
FOI Case Officer
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel
Transport for London
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOI-0565-1920  Mr xxxx  Received 24/05/2019:
Please confirm the make and model of equipment required to test motorcycles for ULEZ exemption, specifically testing NOx output to produce a Certificate of Conformity

[Cosmic]

I have an 03 Foxeye 600 (FZS?)  and need to ride in to The City for work.  Plus I live inside the South Circ.
I took a punt (ok, my company paid for it) and had it tested.  Guess what??  It passed!!  It failed first time, but was so close they were able to tweak it and it passed! 

Cost an arm an a leg, but will pay for itself after about a month.  I now have a CoC from TFL.
The whole thing is BS and, as soon as it comes out to the SC I will have to get rid of the Voyager, but I am bloody well keeping the VR6!!

[mtread]

That's very interesting. When I asked Yamaha about a CoC for my 03 fzs600, they said they couldn't issue one for the year/model, but their tests suggested a 'fail' at 0.18.
Goes to show the (expensive) benefits of individual testing. As you say, will save money quite quickly.

[Buzz]

Cost an arm an a leg

Same bike as me, I was thinking of selling as I'm up in Camden. Can you let us know much and where you got yours tested?

[b1k3rdude]

It failed first time, but was so close they were able to tweak it and it passed!  Cost an arm an a leg, but will pay for itself after about a month.  I now have a CoC from TFL.

I also would like to know where and how much please :-)

[b1k3rdude]

That exactly why I have made an Foi request, why has only one dealer in all of London done this.

So I got a replay from TFL to my Foi request -

You asked: “Please confirm the make and model of equipment required to test motorcycles for ULEZ exemption, specifically testing NOx output to produce a Certificate of Conformity.”

The testing that would be required for motorcycles is the type-approval ‘type 1’ emissions test. This test must be performed on a dynamometer capable of being adjusted for appropriate road-load coefficients and with a driver aid capable of displaying the appropriate velocity/time co-ordinates for the legislative drive cycle for each class of motorcycle. Emissions analysis must be by a minimum of a 5 gas analyser specified to measure NOx over the required drive cycle, whilst taking account of total gas volume over the same cycle, and producing a single value in grammes/km. Emissions testing is to be carried out in accordance with the regulation ECE/TRANS/180/Add2
Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to appeal as well as information on copyright and what to do if you would like to re-use any of the information we have disclosed.

So what is a "type-approval ‘type 1’ emissions test" and has anyone every had one done? And Dynomometer sound a lot like a dynojet rolling road...