(02-02-19, 11:53 PM)VNA link Wrote: One thing that has truck me in the last few months is the absolute weakness of the argument from the BREXITEERS. People who voted for BREXIT can’t actually tell you why they voted for BREXIT, at least not in real substantial factual political terms. Or if they can, to some degree, it’s daylight running lamps, bent bananas and 350 million a week more for the NHS – one non-issue and two lies there then.
Increasingly what we now hear is nationalism. English Nationalism. Patriotic fighting talk. England is at it’s best when it stands alone. Of course, they kinda forget that this is actually about the UK. And standing alone - well there was a few wee nice tweets from Dan Snow this week, I think he appears to be a little irritated at the creeping nationalism in England;
Quote:Britain did indeed fight with extraordinary determination against the Axis Powers. British civilians and servicemen and women displayed enormous bravery and sacrifice. The human and economic cost was vast. But Britain did not fight alone.
Even after the fall of Britain's W European allies in 1939-40 Britain had India, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and many other countries in its corner. The collective economic might of the UK, its dominions and colonies approached that the of the mighty USA
Once the USA and Soviets joined it was by pooling resources and integrating command structures that the allies were able to project overwhelming strength onto the battlefield against their enemies.
British troops often went into battle under American or other allied command. And vice versa. Polish squadrons fighting under a New Zealander played a hugely important role in the Battle of Britain, while...
..on D-day British, US, Canadian and other troops landed, commanded by British general Montgomery, working to a plan set by American Supreme Commander Eisenhower. There were slightly more British Empire than US troops. (By VE Day there were many more Americans)
Meanwhile in South East Asia a vast coalition of allies fought under British supreme command.
At the very highest level Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt debated strategy fiercely. Churchill lost, on Poland at Yalta for example, but also won on things like a French occupation zone in Germany.
At Tehran Churchill was bullied into abandoning plans in the eastern Mediterranean in favour of D-day in the west. He said he felt like the 'poor little English donkey' between the mighty Russian bear and American buffalo.
He gave in. But in return Stalin agreed to time a massive Soviet offensive in the East with the allied landings in the west and agreed to join the war against Japan.
Youve shot yourself in the foot quoting that lot mate. Our friends and allies in the larger world :lol
(03-02-19, 03:45 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: I ask how much use actually is this veto that keeps being touted whenever a negative fact is stated about the EU. Apart from 1 time I can not find when it has actually been used by us.Here is what I have found, this is how useful it is.
Back in 2011 Cameron used the UKs veto to block the revised Lisbon treaty, a new EU-wide treaty to salvage the single currency.
EU leaders promptly agreed to bypass Britain and establish a new accord on the euro among themselves. The EU appeared poised to line up 26-1 against Cameron in support of the Franco-German blueprint, leaving Britain utterly isolated.
For the first time since Britain joined the European Community in 1973, a treaty that goes to the heart of how the EU works will be struck without a British signature.
Cameron appeared initially to have lukewarm backing from Sweden, the Czech Republic and Hungary. But by all three had signalled they would take the Franco-German proposals for a new "fiscal compact" to their parliaments.
With at least 23 countries signing up for a deal conferring intrusive rights on European institutions to enforce budgetary policy in countries breaking the euro's debt and deficit rules, as well as quasi-automatic penalties for delinquents, the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, the central driver of the new regime, appeared sanguine and unbothered by the British veto.
Further more the EU has a plan to prevent EU states from using veto powers to block legislation in areas that usually demand an unanimous agreement, (LIKE AN EU ARMY Fazersharp added this) (and the EU foreign policy _Agricola)
The EU commission is now pushing for a qualified majority voting based on article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty.
For full disclosure I got my info after googling "how many times has the UK used its EU veto"
Oh well, we are indeed seeing the beginning of the end of major manufacturing in the UK.
What we knew yesterday was that Nissan had reversed its decision to build the new X-Trail in the UK.
Today we know why. BREXIT.
We also now know where the X-Trail will be built. Japan.
Japan now has a free trade agreement with the EU. So, whilst it is strategically preferable to build the X-Trail in the UK, that will only be the case if the UK is in the single market.
Absolute bollocks, in 2018 Merkel and Macron were both backing the creation of a EU army ,
[color=rgb(40, 30, 30)]A spokesperson for the commission’s president [/color][color=rgb(236, 26, 46)]Jean-Claude Juncker[/color]said he was “pleased” that the argument for the force seemed to be “going in our direction”.</blockquote></blockquote> Report to moderatorLogged
Slappy, I know they say Jean-Claude Juncker always gets what he wants. But on this one he won’t. And if you actually believe this, umm non-issue, it’s all the more reason to stay in the EU so that the UK can deploy it’s veto.
You spout more shit than an elephant with diarrhoea, the EU vision for the future is total harmonisation , that incliudes all laws, taxation and armed forces. As for all 27 countries having to agree , already the EU wants to remove this right from members when voting on tax legislation. Once the right to veto is removed from one aspect then it makes it all the easier to remove it from every other aspect.
03-02-19, 09:57 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-19, 09:58 PM by VNA.)
Quote:You spout more shit than an elephant with diarrhoea, the EU vision for the future is total harmonisation , that incliudes all laws, taxation and armed forces. As for all 27 countries having to agree , already the EU wants to remove this right from members when voting on tax legislation. Once the right to veto is removed from one aspect then it makes it all the easier to remove it from every other aspect.
No, it does not include all laws, not even all taxation, but obviously it includes laws relevant to trade. If you have a single market you need to have common standards.
Individuals within the EU can of course have all the delusional visions they wish. Jean-Claude Juncker is just as free to talk pure shite as you are slappy. But the reality is The EU is currently 28 countries, it is democratic – the members will decide.
So the creation of an EU army is about as likely as Turkey joining the EU and it’s whole population moving to the UK.
Quote:You spout more shit than an elephant with diarrhoea, the EU vision for the future is total harmonisation , that incliudes all laws, taxation and armed forces. As for all 27 countries having to agree , already the EU wants to remove this right from members when voting on tax legislation. Once the right to veto is removed from one aspect then it makes it all the easier to remove it from every other aspect.
No, it does not include all laws, not even all taxation, but obviously it includes laws relevant to trade. If you have a single market you need to have common standards.
Individuals within the EU can of course have all the delusional visions they wish. Jean-Claude Juncker is just as free to talk pure shite as you are slappy. But the reality is The EU is currently 28 countries, it is democratic – the members will decide.
So the creation of an EU army is about as likely as Turkey joining the EU and it’s whole population moving to the UK.
You truly are delusional, the vision is for the future not the present. No matter who head up the EU the future is a superstate where member countries will do as they are told or suffer the consequences. They have already rejected Italy 2019 budget plans as they do not meet their rules for member states that use the Euro, in other words if the EU doesn't like it they won't let you do it.
That is just a little preview of the future for EU members,.
Quote: the vision is for the future not the present. No matter who head up the EU the future is a superstate where member countries will do as they are told or suffer the consequences. They have already rejected Italy 2019 budget plans as they do not meet their rules for member states that use the Euro, in other words if the EU doesn't like it they won't let you do it.
That is just a little preview of the future for EU members,.
Bear in mind that Italy has a debt of 131% of GDP.
Italy is a member of the Euro – we are not.
And in any case, despite what you say, Italy’s 2019 budget has been agreed.
Nissan has done a u-turn on manufacturing the X-Trail in the UK.
The Qashqai is due to be replaced in 2020. But if there is no certainty about single market access soon we can expect to lose that also.
The UK’s debt is running at 88% of GDP. We cannot afford a recession. Right now, because of BREXIT we are on course for recession.
Nissan's Europe chairman, Gianluca deFicchy, said that "the continued uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".
Who do you believe?
(04-02-19, 11:00 PM)mtread link Wrote: Nissan's Europe chairman, Gianluca deFicchy, said that "the continued uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".
Who do you believe?
Yes the reporter did quote that, or words to that effect, but he said that the actual decision was made for the other reasons.
I'm just repeating what the news correspondent said on the Jeremy Vine show today.
Bottom line is Nissan is losing confidence in the UK.They need to tool up for the new X-Trail and they just won't do that without a guarantee of zero quota, zero tariff access to the EU.It's that simple.
Brexit is already driving our economy into recession.
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