BREXIT

[mtread]

Parliament has basically wasted the voting publics time for 2 years.

No, Parliament has only now been consulted. May and her government has wasted the public's time for 2 and a half years. The obstinate woman could have consulted Parliament and the opposition parties a long time ago.

[VNA]

Quote<blockquote> Parliament has basically wasted the voting publics time for 2 years. </blockquote>No, Parliament has only now been consulted. May and her government has wasted the public's time for 2 and a half years. The obstinate woman could have consulted Parliament and the opposition parties a long time ago.

Indeed, she tried a snap election - that failed
She tried to by pass parliament by calling on some ancient Tudor laws - that failed too.
So she decided to press on alone, hoping to get her deal through by running us up against a potential NO DEAL - that failed too.
She is a failed PM. 

[YamFazFan]

To be fair, whatever side you're on you couldn't beat all this for drama could you!. To people who couldn't care less it probably means nothing, but to those of us who are interested it's the equivalent of Den and Angie at Christmas 1986 :lol

[celticdog]

To be fair, whatever side you're on you couldn't beat all this for drama could you!. To people who couldn't care less it probably means nothing, but to those of us who are interested it's the equivalent of Den and Angie at Christmas 1986 :lol

Agreed, what a fucking waste of time. So now it looks like it's back to the polls again until we vote to remain in the EU. Railroaded just like Denmark and the Republic of Ireland to vote how they want us to.
Lets face it we can't fucking leave this undemocratic behemoth of a quango. Well fellow sheeple, it seems here is no democracy it's all an illusion. The raving monster loony party policy to decimalise time makes more sense to me at the moment than anything coming out of Westminster or the EU for that matter.

[mtread]

The raving monster loony party policy to decimalise time makes more sense to me

Already been done. The French in 1793
Yes it's all quite a drama, but I'm thinking more Basil and Sybil than Den and Angie

[YamFazFan]

Parliament has basically wasted the voting publics time for 2 years.

No, Parliament has only now been consulted. May and her government has wasted the public's time for 2 and a half years. The obstinate woman could have consulted Parliament and the opposition parties a long time ago.

Parliament agreed to give the electorate a vote and to implement Article 50.

[mtread]

Parliament agreed to give the electorate a vote and to implement Article 50.

Very true, but it's been all down to May since then.


Actually I've decided it's more Rene and Edith - '' You stupid woman'' and the French and Germans are all laughing at her.


She's backed herself into a corner. If she comes back with a similar deal, she will lose the vote again. Perhaps by a smaller margin, but she will lose.
If she goes for a harder Brexit she'll lose half her party.
If she goes for a softer Brexit she'll lose the other half.
If she does nothing and goes for No Deal, Parliament will take over and a majority will veto it and extend Article 50.


There is nothing she can do. Corbyn currently holds all the best cards.

[YamFazFan]

No idea if there will be a second referendum or not.  It's certainly more likely now than May's deal. :lol
But as I have said again and again, if, and if, I say again if, there is second referendum it must be legally binding.

I've no doubt it will be....if the answers Remain.


How's The Eagle's lyric go?..."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave".... :guitar

[Oldgit]

May to stand down, R Mogg for PM--now that would set the cat among the pigeons.

[mtread]

How's The Eagle's lyric go?..."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"...

You're spot on. It also covers May's obstinacy.
[color=rgb(60, 64, 67)]'' They stab it with their steely knives, [/color][color=rgb(60, 64, 67)]But they just can't kill the beast''[/color]

[VNA]

I've no doubt it will be....if the answers Remain.

Legally binding means just that.  Whatever the result is it has to be implemented.


Naturally some folks will ask why was the 2016 not legally binding.  The simple answer to that is that to be legally binding the result has to be defined.  And that was the big problem with the 2016 referendum, BREXIT was not defined.  So the 2016 refenedum was a simple consultative ballot. 



So that means if there is a second referendum it has to be a very specific question.


Which in turn is where the problem lies.  It will be a nightmare defining the question.  I’m not sure it can be done as it has to be agreed by parliament.



I would argue the following;


May’s deal is officially the only deal on offer.  It’s a withdrawal deal, with our settled position to be negotiated over the next few years.  It’s been agreed by the government and ratified with the 27 remaining EU states.  It is defined and can be implemented.
Therefore;


Do you wish implement the governments withdrawal act and LEAVE the EU.



Or


Do you wish to cancel article 50 and REMAIN in the EU.


That would allow a legally binding referendum to take place.

[YamFazFan]

So we were lied to in 2016?.


That leaflet said...'This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide'.


It didn't say....'The government will implement what you decide....as long as it can be defined' :rolleyes

[VNA]

So we were lied to in 2016?.


That leaflet said...'This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide'.


It didn't say....'The government will implement what you decide....as long as it can be defined' [img alt=:rolleyes]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Well you have been used.  As I keep saying this only occurred as a means to unite the Tory party in order to win an election.  And DC never thought for one minute that people would actually be daft enough to vote to leave the EU.  But then he’s a millionaire living in the Westminster bubble.  He has no idea whatsoever how tough life is for millions in this country and how disenfranchised they feel.

But no you were not lied to.  And May’s government, as hopeless as it is, has spent 2 years getting a withdrawal agreement together and tried every trick in the book to try and implement it.

[fazersharp]

Well at least if there is another referendum I can look forward to there being another leaflet drop because my downpipes need re doing.

[VNA]

Well at least if there is another referendum I can look forward to there being another leaflet drop because my downpipes need re doing.

Aye, well, and if you are a good boy and engage yer brain you’ll vote to cancel article 50.


That way everybody will keep their jobs.  The pound will strengthen, inflation will fall, and you’ll be able to forget about painting yer downpipes as you’ll have your new bike as a result of falling new motorcycle prices.

[fazersharp]

The pound will strengthen

On that point, all day yesterday the "City experts" were saying that if Mays deal is voted down then the pound will drop. --- IT went UP  :wall
The state of the pound has nothing to do with anything other than a bunch of frightened gambling children who either way (up or down ) will ensure that they will have trousered cash.

[fazersharp]

VNA You like to say that the people who voted to leave were just kicking the politicians. After witnessing the last 2 years of their shenanigans then surely those who voted to leave are not about to change their minds but instead to just kick harder.

[VNA]

On that point, all day yesterday the "City experts" were saying that if Mays deal is voted down then the pound will drop. --- IT went UP  :wall

Tis a very fluid situation Mr Sharp.  The city experts were probably figuring on a narrower defeat, with May coming back for a second vote.  That would then take us closer to a NO DEAL scenario.

But the deal hasn’t just been fairly strongly rejected, it’s been annihilated, completely and utterly blitzed.  I can’t see May coming back for a second vote, not without some sort of significant change.

Still anything could happen, but the general feeling has to be we are heading towards a much softer BREXIT.  That can only reassure the markets.


And the value of the pound is one indicator of the overall health of our economy.

[VNA]

VNA You like to say that the people who voted to leave were just kicking the politicians. After witnessing the last 2 years of their shenanigans then surely those who voted to leave are not about to change their minds but instead to just kick harder.

But this was the wrong ball to kick.  It is not the EU that has shafted us and made so many poorer, it is our own successive right wing governments.


If we exit the EU without a DEAL, there will be an economic price to pay.  And just as with the financial crises just over ten years ago it will not be the May’s, Johnston’s, Moggs etc that will pay the price, it will be us.


Don’t forget that of the very few economists in favour of a hard BREXIT, though they claim a financial benefit for the UK, they are quite clear that it will also mean increasingly wage inequality and the virtual end of UK manufacturing.

[fazersharp]

On that point, all day yesterday the "City experts" were saying that if Mays deal is voted down then the pound will drop. --- IT went UP  :wall

Tis a very fluid situation Mr Sharp.  The city experts were probably figuring on a narrower defeat, with May coming back for a second vote.  That would then take us closer to a NO DEAL scenario.

But the deal hasn’t just been fairly strongly rejected, it’s been annihilated, completely and utterly blitzed.  I can’t see May coming back for a second vote, not without some sort of significant change.

Still anything could happen, but the general feeling has to be we are heading towards a much softer BREXIT.  That can only reassure the markets.


And the value of the pound is one indicator of the overall health of our economy.

The city experts were probably figuring on a narrower defeat

Like I said "Gambling"

That can only reassure the markets.

Like I said "frightened children"

And the value of the pound is one indicator of the overall health of our economy.

No it isn't - the value of the pound is an overall indicator of the gambling of a select few crooked city children.