Today's "What Gets My Goat" - NO POLITICS!

[agricola]

[quote author=agricola link=topic=17546.msg286079#msg286079 date=1540978926]
and what should have happened is everyone pulling together to deliver what the majority voted for. Instead, those opposed to Brexit have conspired to weaken our position through constant sniping. When we originally voted to join the Common Market, we all accepted the decision and tried to make the best from it, no sniping/bitching/most people on our street voting against etc etc.

that's all im trying to say too.
our politicians used to be able to do it, but it seems they aren't capable now
When Neville Chamberlain became pm in '37, his premiership was dominated by his foreign policy towards an ever aggressive Germany under Adold Hitler. When he realised  his "appeasement" policy (for which he will always be remembered for sadly), wasn't working and Germany invaded Poland in '39 bringing us into the war he stuck it out a bit longer then resigned in early 1940 as the allies were being forced to retreat from Norway because (and this is all im asking for from all governing parties now) he believed that a government supported by all parties was essential, and the Labour and Liberal parties would not join a Government headed by him. Although succeeded by Churchill, he remained vey well thought of,especially by tories, and became an important member of churchills war cabinet.
And that's what gets my goat.
that ministers cant do the same today..recognise we have made a decision, and whether they are happy with it or not, pull together to get the best outcome for the people they represent, us.


[/quote]
Yes, absolutely. If the result had been the other way, those who voted out would have buckled down and got on with it, and it would have been Italy, or Spain, or Greece, perhaps Poland or Hungary, that would be the first to leave

[coffee]

So.
Me and the missus were sat in Costa (upstairs in Next) having a lovely coffee together. Sat in a window seat with with a view out over the car park (not the greatest view in the world) but enjoying watching the world go by at the end of the working day, pointing out different cars we like or dislike, what we'd buy if we could afford it and, if we're lucky, get to see the odd motorbike or two.
So far so good.
And then, one of my REAL pet hates, a 40 something woman turns up in a Ford KA and jumps out in her velour tracksuit, obviously nothing wrong with her, and dashes into Next to buy herself something nice, after making a foccin' awful attempt at parking her car in between the bay lines, in a disabled space, which is really wide to allow genuinely disabled people enough room to exit and get back into their cars - see pic a.
To top it all off she's got a disabled badge on the dashboard which obviously isn't hers so she has probably borrowed the car & its badge off a relative or someone she knows.
Really grips my sh!t  :thumbdown top


Then a few minutes later, just after I've finished venting my spleen to the missus, another 40 something woman does exactly the same by parking next to the first one but this one doesn't even have the courtesy to display a disabled badge FFS!!!! - see pic b.


It's not as if the car park was anywhere near full either - just pure laziness and not giving a foc about others.


I hate it.       

:thumbdown  Agree with everything you've said,maybe bikers have more of a thing about this because they can sometimes end up disabled and more than likely it's someone like these wankers that have pulled out on you or whatever,hate 'em

[VNA]

Yes, absolutely. If the result had been the other way, those who voted out would have buckled down and got on with it, and it would have been Italy, or Spain, or Greece, perhaps Poland or Hungary, that would be the first to leave.

Really?  The fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists of UKIP would have just shrugged their shoulders and said “Oh well, that’s that.” 
Perhaps another country would try to leave if we hadn’t started the process of trying to do so first.  But whatever, the way things stand, we will be the first and the last.  The other countries can now see clearly what BREXIT means.


Of course, a great many of those who believe in BREXIT want to see the EU dissolve, with country after country leaving.  But think what that means.  What is the EU?


The EU is 28 counties, trading freely without any restrictions.  If they were 28 separate countries, you would have 28 separate trade laws, 28 separate legal systems to deal with, 28 separate governments to deal with.  As a manufacturing business for example, if you wished to trade with all, you might need 28 different versions of your product to pass 28 different safety standards.  You also need 28 separate trade deals.



In other words, every country that is currently a member of the EU would end up poorer if the EU was dissolved.


It is not just fundamentally stupid to leave the EU, not to mention doing so after investing 40 years building it, but incredibly selfish. 



So we will not get a better deal than we have right now.  And if we leave, the UK will suffer economically.


But don’t forget that the Jacob Rees Moggs etc of the Tory party would like nothing more than to the see the ordinary people of this country down on their knees begging for their next fucking meal.  These people intend to become even richer and even more powerful through BREXIT.

[mtread]

On the very night of the referendum, when Farage thought he had lost, he was on television saying the fight wasn't over, and he wanted another vote.

[YamFazFan]

Nope.


 

Noting your lack of detailed response  :rolleyes

We're unlikely to agree on virtually anything regarding this topic even given a million years. It would just go on forever. At least it's good natured debate.


At the end of the day the indisputable facts are that Leave won, Remain lost and we're coming out :woot

[BBROWN1664]

[quote author=Dynspud link=topic=17546.msg286110#msg286110 date=1541010977]
So.
Me and the missus were sat in Costa (upstairs in Next) having a lovely coffee together. Sat in a window seat with with a view out over the car park (not the greatest view in the world) but enjoying watching the world go by at the end of the working day, pointing out different cars we like or dislike, what we'd buy if we could afford it and, if we're lucky, get to see the odd motorbike or two.
So far so good.
And then, one of my REAL pet hates, a 40 something woman turns up in a Ford KA and jumps out in her velour tracksuit, obviously nothing wrong with her, and dashes into Next to buy herself something nice, after making a foccin' awful attempt at parking her car in between the bay lines, in a disabled space, which is really wide to allow genuinely disabled people enough room to exit and get back into their cars - see pic a.
To top it all off she's got a disabled badge on the dashboard which obviously isn't hers so she has probably borrowed the car & its badge off a relative or someone she knows.
Really grips my sh!t  :thumbdown top


Then a few minutes later, just after I've finished venting my spleen to the missus, another 40 something woman does exactly the same by parking next to the first one but this one doesn't even have the courtesy to display a disabled badge FFS!!!! - see pic b.


It's not as if the car park was anywhere near full either - just pure laziness and not giving a foc about others.


I hate it.

I agree with what you say, but not everyone "looks" disabled.
They may have a breathing condition that is worse some days than others for example.
[/quote]

:agree

I know several people with blue badges. Some are obviously disabled as they need walking frames/whatever to get about. The 2 closest to me in terms of family however are less obvious. My father-in-law looks a bit frail when he is walking but make him walk 100m and he is just about ready to collapse due to heart issued. My niece, who is only 20 years old has a degenerative condition that some days she can seem to be running around. Give it 20 minutes though and she will be a wheelchair for the next few days. Similarly, make her walk 200m and her legs give up. She would love to not have to use the disabled spaces but if she didn't...…..


It does p!$$ me off though when I see the gits at the local shops pull into a car park with loads of spaces and just go straight to the 2 disabled bays because they are closer to the shops.


A lot of people don't realise that its illegal to use a blue badge to park you car if the owner of the badge isn't in the car, or if they are, is not getting out of the car. After all, why do you need the disabled spaces if the disabled person can just as easily sit in the car at the far end of the car park?

[mtread]

At the end of the day the indisputable facts are that Leave won, Remain lost and we're coming out

Yep we are indeed coming out. If only somebody had a map of where we're going. It's like leading a bike ride and you lose 48%  of the riders at the first roundabout, and  find yourself ending up in some dead end industrial estate 

[robbo]

Yep we are indeed coming out. If only somebody had a map of where we're going. It's like leading a bike ride and you lose 48%  of the riders at the first roundabout, and  find yourself ending up in some dead end industrial estate   


Blimey. That sounds just like the last LOFO day out to David Silvers. :rollin :rollin

[nick crisp]

Really?  The fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists of UKIP would have just shrugged their shoulders and said “Oh well, that’s that.”

So 52% of the electorate are UKIP members? Hmmm.

The EU is 28 counties, trading freely without any restrictions.  If they were 28 separate countries, you would have 28 separate trade laws, 28 separate legal systems to deal with, 28 separate governments to deal with.  As a manufacturing business for example, if you wished to trade with all, you might need 28 different versions of your product to pass 28 different safety standards.  You also need 28 separate trade deals.

That's looking at it from a Remain "shoot down Brexit" point of view. The point is, some things about the EU are good - trade agreements across the membership for instance. Some not so good - the Franco/German dictatorship that says we must have this much migration, must accept these many immigrants from outside (and look how Merkel fucked that up. You said yourself you want Scottish independence so at least your mistakes will be your own - not going to be the case within the EU though, is it?  ),  must standardise all laws, must eventually become a single super state etc. Personally, I think the EU should ONLY be about trade, as it once was supposed to be. Or rather, I fail to see why independent nations can't work out advantageous systems together on other things too, where it benefits all - security in the face of modern threats for instance. Cooperation yes, Brussels sovereignty? Fuck off! The only thing that gets in the way of such cooperation is self-interested politicians.

It is not just fundamentally stupid to leave the EU, not to mention doing so after investing 40 years building it, but incredibly selfish.

It's not just the UK that is being selfish, and never mind EU protectionism in the face of Brexit.
Look at Germany's behaviour towards Greece - bribery and corruption to force Greece to buy German arms, tanks etc, which kind of behaviour largely contributed to the Greek economic collapse in the first place.

And if we leave, the UK will suffer economically.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. You can't prove one way or the other. Even the top economic heads say they don't know for sure - how could they, when a deal has yet to be worked out? I know we're not there yet, but your lot were predicting economic meltdown as the immediate aftermath of the referendum, and that hasn't happened. Sure, we've lost in some ways, but we've gained in others, and I suspect that will be the true result of Brexit when we look back on it in years to come. The EU will have its own problems, as will everywhere else. The ones who will lose face are the current sensationalists, like yourself. You should relax about it more. Have another spliff!  :lol  Oh, wait, you can't - as a political animal, you think spliffs are bad, very, very baaad! :lol

But don’t forget that the Jacob Rees Moggs etc of the Tory party would like nothing more than to the see the ordinary people of this country down on their knees begging for their next fucking meal.  These people intend to become even richer and even more powerful through BREXIT.

All politicians intend to become richer and even more powerful off the back of whatever happens, Brexit or Remain, Labour or Tory, or SNP for that matter. And that certainly goes for the politicians of the EU, with their own corporate connections and interests.

[mtread]

Blimey. That sounds just like the last LOFO day out to David Silvers.

Well spotted!    But unlike Brexit, we all made it home in one piece  :lol

[red98]

And we did all get to where we wanted to go.......

[VNA]

That's looking at it from a Remain "shoot down Brexit" point of view.

No it’s simple economics.  If there was no EU and you were a UK manufacturer, the fact is you would more than likely have to choose which countries within Europe you wished to trade with, as very few but the biggest companies would be able to handle the complexities of trading with all.
It’s a simple economic fact that if there was no EU, there would be less trade across Europe.  Less trade means smaller economies = less wealth.
Obviously, the EU requires standardisation of laws relating to trade.  That’s an advantage not a disadvantage.  The EU will never become a single super state – that’s just nonsense.

Or rather, I fail to see why independent nations can't work out advantageous systems together on other things too, where it benefits all - security in the face of modern threats for instance.

Perhaps you mean the EU counter-terrorism strategy that BREXIT will take us out of.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. You can't prove one way or the other. Even the top economic heads say they don't know for sure - how could they, when a deal has yet to be worked out?

Well yes you are right here.  Because 1 – we may not actually leave or 2 – we may remain in a customs union or as continuing members of the single market.  But what we do know is that a no deal BREXIT crash out of the EU will have a substantial and immediate economic impact on the UK.

The ones who will lose face are the current sensationalists, like yourself. You should relax about it more. Have another spliff!  :lol  Oh, wait, you can't - as a political animal, you think spliffs are bad, very, very baaad! :lol

My employer has a policy of random drink and drug testing.  Not an option for me I’m afraid.
Jacob Rees-Mogg was educated at Eton.  He is a hedge fund manager.  His net worth is estimated at in excess of 100 million pounds.  He’s in parliament to look after his own interest. 

[VNA]

Yep we are indeed coming out. If only somebody had a map of where we're going. It's like leading a bike ride and you lose 48%  of the riders at the first roundabout, and  find yourself ending up in some dead end industrial estate  [img alt=]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/img]

That sounds about right.

[VNA]

Yep we are indeed coming out.

Well I’m not sure.  I notice nobody wants to have a stab at where the border will go.
As I understand it the current situation is;
The EU wants to keep NI in the customs union, and therefore there will be no border between NI and EIRE. 
But that's no good for May, as the DUP will bring down the government and Scotland will in turn demand the border be moved from between us and NI to between us and England. 
So May has proposed a backstop, which seems to be we sort of leave the EU, but have some extra time to figure out how to leave the single market. 
And I suspect, at the end of the day, particularly as the EU is now prepared to compromise on free movement, we’ll sort of jump on a roundabout and jump off at a later date where we got on.
So are we leaving the EU?  Possibly not.

[mtread]

I don't think the EU cares whether NI is in the Customs Union or not. What they are saying is that Eire definitely is, so if UK is leaving the Customs Union, then there has to be a border somewhere. Either an Irish Border, or a GB border. It's totally our problem, and Theresa and Co say neither is OK in the long term (short term backstop is a smokescreen).
I think we will leave the EU, but will join the Customs Union and the Single Market. Just like Norway and Switzerland. We'll get some concessions on how much we pay and what rules we take.
So what's the point? It will please neither side of the voting halves. I'd rather be in the tent pissing out, rather outside pissing into the wind 

[steve 10562cc]

I know where the border should go right where the Romans built a long wall badly not high enough or focing sound proof. then we would have to read/listen the clap trap coming from the other side of it

[nick crisp]

I know where the border should go right where the Romans built a long wall badly not high enough or focing sound proof. then we would have to read/listen the clap trap coming from the other side of it

:lol  :thumbup

more piff and drivel

You continue to demonstrate why politicians are a despised class: "I know what's good for you"  :rolleyes
You know no better than the next man.


Just to take one point, where you say about Brexit pulling us out of security cooperation. How come we can work just fine with the security services of Australia, Canada, the US, when it's mutually beneficial? Once again, it's politicians, people with minds like your own, who prevent these things from happening.

[mtread]

I know where the border should go right where the Romans built a long wall badly not high enough or focing sound proof. then we would have to read/listen the clap trap coming from the other side of it[/quote]
[size=78%]Hadrian's Wall was built across Northumberland. You've just lost most of Newcastle and some of Carlisle, not to mention Berwick. That may or may not have been your intention. [/size] :eek

[VNA]

Quote from: VNA

    more piff and drivel

Did I say piff and drivel? 

You know no better than the next man.

No but I think you are just trying to insult and bait me rather than address my main points.

How come we can work just fine with the security services of Australia, Canada, the US, when it's mutually beneficial?

There is a difference between working separately and choosing what to share, and more to the point what not to share, and indeed choosing who else you might share or not share with, than a co-ordinated operation with shared data between all members.  It’s a big difference.

I don't think the EU cares whether NI is in the Customs Union or not. What they are saying is that Eire definitely is, so if UK is leaving the Customs Union, then there has to be a border somewhere. Either an Irish Border, or a GB border. It's totally our problem, and Theresa and Co say neither is OK in the long term (short term backstop is a smokescreen).
I think we will leave the EU, but will join the Customs Union and the Single Market. Just like Norway and Switzerland. We'll get some concessions on how much we pay and what rules we take.
So what's the point? It will please neither side of the voting halves. I'd rather be in the tent pissing out, rather outside pissing into the wind  [img alt=]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/img]

Yeah I think the EU cares first about it's members.  LEAVE told us that the EU needs us more than we need them.  That myth has been busted.  At the end of the day they would like us in, but if we wanna leave, well then their attitude is - you know where the door is...............


So I think mtread sums it all up quite nocely.

[VNA]

Hadrian's Wall was built across Northumberland. You've just lost most of Newcastle and some of Carlisle, not to mention Berwick. That may or may not have been your intention.

Well it did used to be ours.