(17-01-17, 04:50 PM)rw711 link Wrote: There's engine rattle and obvious oil consumption but no other obvious performance decrease (woolly due to carbsome needing done, but it was like that before). Doesn't make sense to ride it though in case further damage caused.
I can't upload pics on my phone. But will when I get back to pc
Just a theory here but if a valve had broken then surely there'd be a drop in power and the engine would be chugging away on three cylinders? You said there was no performance drop so it sounds to me like the engine's still in one piece but it's dumped all it's oil for some reason and as a result of the lack of oil it started making terrible noises. Since you've had the bike did you top up the oil? If you did how much did you put in? It's easy to put way too much oil in these bikes if you don't follow the manual. It's usually done by topping up the oil while it's on the side stand. I'd wonder was the oil level way too high and when you rode the bike the stress created by the extra oil blew seals and gaskets or broke something internally and it dumped all the oil out. Then started make all the noise from lack of oil. These engines really don't burn much oil at all. Any topping up should be a very small amount, never a liter or more.
As it was so cheap you might want to cut your losses and buy an engine for a couple of hundred £. Then break this one in your own time and repair or sell the good bits to get some money back.
18-01-17, 03:25 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-17, 03:34 PM by tommyardin.)
My guess is it's nothing to do with the valves after seeing rw's pictures.
Definitely a water issue, I thought to start with maybe valves but the white stuff is not dry but it is wet and frothy.
Looking at the inside of the oil filler cap proves that it is 100% water in oil, just need to find out how/why its getting in there. head gasket or cracked block, could be either.
And for the sludgy foam to be getting onto the exhaust is worrying.
I am amazed that the damn thing even ran with that amount of stuff coming out of the exhaust and not just the foam but oil as well, it had to be passing through the combustion chambers, i can see no other way it could get there as the exhaust is only connection to the engine via the combustion chambers.
Good luck sorting it rw, my condolences mate, I use the word condolences begrudgingly as it a term that is only usually used when speaking of a death or bereavement. :look Best case scenario is: I'm going to stick my neck out here and plump for the cylinder head cracked, (Especially as it sounds like it had possibly been running low on coolant because of the leak) that is the most likely/direct way both oil and water are going to enter the combustion chambers, so maybe a new head and a bit of surgery will have the patient up and about again in no time . Lets hope so and we can forget the condolences. tommy
18-01-17, 06:23 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-17, 06:25 PM by His Dudeness.)
This might be looking on the bright side a bit too much but I think it's a bit early to say the head gasket or head is blown. All you can say for sure is that it's dumped a load of oil out the exhaust and started making a racket. The oil filler cap can look like that on a bike that's been parked up for a long time. Also when you burn petrol it creates water vapour so if the bike was over filled with oil and it was pushing oil past the rings and into the exhaust and it was mixing with the water vapour in the exhaust you could get that mayo looking oil coming out the exhaust. Also he didn't say anything about it over heating or running rough which I think you'd expect from a blown head gasket. He'll have to drain the oil and check what condition it's in is it milky and then check the condition of the coolant before any accurate guesses could be made. It could well be that the head or the head gasket is gone but I don't think you could say that yet. To me it looks like the symptoms of over filling the oil but that can knacker all sorts of things and write off an engine. Pull the plugs out too
Could the oil cooler be focced and allowing coolant in to the oil,?? Is there oil in the rad/expansion tank ??
Not seen it on a bike but just had similar on my car and I shat me self that it was the head gasket but turned out to be the oil cooler that the foccing spanner monkey fucked up on it was serviced .
As said, the creamy oil filler cap can be just a winter thing, i get it every year on mine in the colder weather because i do relatively short journeys to and from work, so condensation mixes with the oil causeing the white stuff.
Must admit, never seen it at the rear of the exhaust before though.
As it's a new bike to you i would've personally started from scratch and changed all the fluids, as you just don't know how much was in there or what condition they were in.
You might wanna check your air filter housing too, you may have a load of emulsified oil under the filter itself as well which will need mopping up, which could be the result of over filling the oil sump.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(18-01-17, 11:42 AM)mtread link Wrote: As it was so cheap you might want to cut your losses and buy an engine for a couple of hundred £. Then break this one in your own time and repair or sell the good bits to get some money back.
18-01-17, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-17, 11:27 PM by Bretty.)
I reckon coolant leak, has caused it to overheat, warp the head and blow the head gasket.
Coolant only flows internally through the top 2 sections of the engine and oil and coolant must be mixing at the head gasket. You would have to really over fill it with oil to get that much leaking out past the pistons!!!
18-01-17, 11:30 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-17, 11:31 PM by Bretty.)
You can see the coolant holes around the cylinders and valve. These are the two sections separated by the head gasket. For a gasket to go it either needs the head to warp or take a big whack from something failing.
(18-01-17, 09:13 PM)unfazed link Wrote: [quote author=mtread link=topic=21682.msg250232#msg250232 date=1484736127]
As it was so cheap you might want to cut your losses and buy an engine for a couple of hundred £. Then break this one in your own time and repair or sell the good bits to get some money back.
:agree
[/quote]
Yep that is what I am looking to do now.
I havent yet had chance to look at the coolant, I was back at work today then mopping up at my friends where the bike was parked as oil was continuing to drip out of the joint at the silencer - we reckoned it wasnt going to drop anymore last night as it had not been run - but it obviously did :rolleyes
Hoping to get a look at the coolant and drain the remaining oil tomorrow eve.
as for oil level before any of this took place, it looked to be ok in the sight glass - I only topped up when the light came up, and a bit at a time checking & stopping when the light def stayed off?
- the idea was to get the mot then do a oil & filter change anyway as didnt know when it was last done - the coolant was checked when leak fixed and topped up. It hadnt over heated in the time I have had it, though thats not to say it hasnt in the past.
Will come back to thread when had a look at the coolant.
After a bit of calculating (long story) i worked out the oil light comes on after about 1 litre has been lost, leaving about 1.5 littes left to lube the engine.
Not life threatening to the engine but does need dealing with asap.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
19-01-17, 12:32 AM (This post was last modified: 19-01-17, 12:36 AM by rw711.)
I would go for that - each time I topped up I would of guessed from the amount left in can it was taking a little less than a litre to make the light go off - I only topped it twice before getting the recovery, I have a little bit more than half a 4l container left,
It'll have to come out - cos all I could get was car oil, but reckon that was better than no or very low oil
Edit just looked its a five litre can and about 2 thirds to 3 quarters left
Was the bike on the centrestand / level ground when filling and ( hope your not offended at this RW ) was the engine switched off and the remaining oil that was circulating around the engine left to settle before you started to fill with from what you approximate about 1.8 litres ?
If the answer was no to the above that could mean a big overfill
Could even be a cracked/broken cylinder liner, although it is more of a issue with the early R1 & R6s due to higher revving engines, but a few have cropped up in states on the fazers, have not heard of any this side of the Atlantic
(19-01-17, 12:40 AM)Graham53 link Wrote: Was the bike on the centrestand / level ground when filling and ( hope your not offended at this RW ) was the engine switched off and the remaining oil that was circulating around the engine left to settle before you started to fill with from what you approximate about 1.8 litres ?
If the answer was no to the above that could mean a big overfill
No problem, yeh the first time was at the garage, it had been stood on centrestand for maybe 10 mins or more as I had to buy the oil then go get a lend of some pliers as the filler cap seems to go quite tight, even though I tried to avoid overtightening. At this time I would say it'd been nursed along with the oil light on for approx 4 or 5 miles. The MOT place was only about half a mile from this garage.
It lost quite a bit just through leakage whilst sat waiting for the MOT - the light came back on when I was say another 3 miles after leaving the MOT - this was possibly a bit quick as put oil in here at the roadside with engine off but it'd only been off a couple of mins -this is when it started reving of its own accord and I decided to call it a day. so possibly that WAS an over fill but I kill switched the engine and only briefly started it for the Rec. man and kill switched it again - its not been run since.
(20-01-17, 09:24 PM)rw711 link Wrote: Well there is no oil in the coolant. Level was down as couldn't see coolant in filler neck.
Don't forget to make sure the level is between the markings in the expansion tank as well, the white bottle situated under the right side of the passenger seat.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
