Rules of the road please help

[crickleymal]

Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

There is a petition going around that calls for insurance and road tax for cyclists. I'm in two minds about it. Sure they are bloody annoying especially the ones with black bikes and clothing and no lights but on the other hand it would be a shame if the last free form of transport were to disappear.

[Fazer99]

Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

Yes I do completely agree. However, you would run into the problem of the kiddies riding around on there bikes and they are not going to be able to pay for in-case-shit-happens  :lol (insurance), but you could simplify it by making it to be if an adult cyclist does not have in-case-shit-happens then basically no matter what the accident or fault they have no chance at all to claim.

[fazersharp]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=21534.msg247690#msg247690 date=1481710142]
Right of way and priority mean nothing furthermore I never trust a traffic light of any colour, or an indicator.

Priority most certainly does mean something, but you should not rely on others understanding that meaning.
[/quote]
Yes I meant means nothing to me in that - as you say to not rely on others understanding that meaning.

No cycling needs to be kept free because next it will be pedestrians 

[Dudeofrude]

Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

I've said this for a long time. Not necessarily insurance but I think there should be a CBT style test that needs to be taken every few years if you want to ride on the road, especially in the city.
I'm a little undecided on taxing them but then if you think how much money gets put into making roads safer for cyclists then maybe they should contribute?
After all they spend millions on cycle lanes etc and get nothing back where as with our bikes/cars we pay an absolute fortune in taxes and levys then get nothing on return but pot hole riddled roads covered in speed cameras!!

[fazersharp]

I've said this for a long time. Not necessarily insurance but I think there should be a CBT style test that needs to be taken every few years if you want to ride on the road, especially in the city.
I'm a little undecided on taxing them but then if you think how much money gets put into making roads safer for cyclists then maybe they should contribute?
After all they spend millions on cycle lanes etc and get nothing back where as with our bikes/cars we pay an absolute fortune in taxes and levys then get nothing on return but pot hole riddled roads covered in speed cameras!!

I think that you may be right about the CBT aspect but it needs to cover things just like this post is all about, I think we all agree that the biker was guilty of at least not being experienced otherwise he would of seen the gap been left and the side road and would of been fully expecting a car to be appearing having been experienced he would of slowed down and be prepared to stop.
Yes perhaps in law none it it was his fault and why should the cyclist alter his riding, BUT if he values his life then that is exactly what he needs to do, and fair enough if he has not the experience (he has now ! ) to see the danger then there is a case for someone who has to teach him.
May be they have to pay a fee for this and part of which goes into a fund to pay out in cases instead of forcing them to have insurance.

[tommyardin]

Was talking to a 72yr old fella last night, who's just had 4 stents put in his chest, and he was saying that he recently went abroad for 20 days and they charged him £320 insurance. He travels quite a bit by the way.
BUT, if anything happened to him associated with the stents, drinking, or smoking, etc, he's not covered at all, and if was to die abroad the cost of transporting him back here isn't covered either!
Insurance is nothing short of fraud.
He kept asking what he gets for his money and they couldn't really give him a decent answer!  :rolleyes


Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

[size=1em]The answer to your question Darrsi is yes they should have insurance, but how you police that with children on bikes? I don't know.[/size]

[size=1em]A little story follows about a very very BIG man. this is related in some way to, and, about Travel insurance as mentioned above.
[/size]

[size=1em]My best mate over many many years is Terry, AKA Wild Plum. I met Terry about 48 or 49 years ago we were both bikers and lived about 15 miles apart and met up in a dance one night (Sounds a bit gay but it's not) and we ended up having a fight, anyway when I came round he shook me by the hand and bought me a pint, well if someone is going to lay you out sparko what a lovely way for the night to end having a pint or two and making the best buddy someone could ever wish for.[/size]

[size=1em]Reading Darrsi post reminds me of Terry's plight. [/size]

[size=1em]Terry ended up going through the windscreen of a Corsair after hitting a skip lorry on winters evening about 32 years ago, he was taken to Guildford hospital where the gave him pain relief basically to ease his passing, they did nothing to him at that time because there was little to no chance he would even make it through the night.[/size]
[size=1em]The following morning he was still in the land of the living (Hope he doesn't mind me telling this his story) they had Terry in the operating theatre for many hours.[/size]
[size=1em]He had 170 odd stitches in the outside of his face and head, 60 odd stitches inside his mouth and gums, he had a broken wrist and elbow, both collar bones, one ankle a shin and numerous ribs, plus some internal organ damage that I don't understand nor can I elaborate on.[/size]
[size=1em]When the fire brigade got him out of the mangled mess of a car the ignition key (Column mounted ignition switch) head had gone up under his knee cap and had snapped off so one of the other jobs was to remove his knee cap and retrieve the key head.[/size]
[size=1em]What followed was months of rebuild surgery to his gums and teeth. Terry made a 100% recovery from that ordeal and continued to work as a brickie on site earning his living. [/size]
[size=1em]Terry is one of those guys that refuses to let anything get him down. When he finally was able to get about again he started working on getting his pilots licence, which he did and was teaching others to fly (It must of frightened the shit out of his students when they turned up and saw Terry with his really badly scarred beat up face).[/size]

[size=1em]On one such lesson flying out over the south coast in a two seater Terry's student had control of the plane (Duel control) flying at around a 1000 feet just below cloud base, the plane veered off course with a violent smash as an other plane came out of the clouds and took a part of his tail plane off, he grabbed control of the plane and flew it back to the departure airfield some 20 miles away, and landed it smashing the rolling stock and underside of the plane on impact.[/size]
[size=1em]The ground crew said he had done the impossible flying the plane with that amount of tail missing and landing it without loss of life. One must assume the other plane was hardly damaged at all because nothing was ever heard about it nor was it reported by anyone else.[/size]

[size=1em]The manoeuvre that the other plane was doing was called cloud bombing, fly really high above the clouds then go into a really steep dive and dive right through the cloud base and back out into sunlight. [/size]

[size=1em]Terry had said that he had done it before, and its great fun like a crescendo of bright light on emerging from the clouds at an incredibly fast rate. Strictly illegal.[/size]

[size=1em]Terry has a Gold medal at home that very very few people see that was warded to him for courage in the face of adversity, this was awarded by the flying club.[/size]
[size=1em]He did what was deemed as the impossible.    [/size]

[size=1em]Terry has since had bladder cancer twice, had 5 heart attacks and 8 stents fitted as three of them have blocked and had to be replaced.[/size]
[size=1em]A more positive and full of life geezer you will never meet.[/size]

[size=1em]There are down sides though, he just sold his 900 T140 Triumph Thruxton and the prat has bought a Harley, hence proving that there was brain damage done all those years ago in that Corsair accident.[/size]

[size=1em]I was sat in Terry's kitchen drinking tea a couple of years ago now and he was recounting how lucky he had been through life (If that's good luck fuck having it bad) with all the things that had happened to him, illnesses and accidents and stuff like that. He said that through his car accident ordeal Jan (His wife) had stuck by him through all the months of recovery, after his flying accident Jan was there for him and when he came around after numerous heart and balder operations there she was, he looked at her and smiled   and said hang about she a fucking Jonas, with that a bit of battenburg cake came flying across the kitchen and we both legged it. [/size]
[size=1em]That man is a LEGEND and I love him to bits, he is in almost every sense of the word My Brother. I think everyone should have a Terry in their life, it makes it so much more enjoyable.  [/size]

[slappy]

Compulsory CBT style training, insurance, lights on bike and bike helmet. As for kids on bikes ,letting them on public roads with no training or safety  gear should not allowed. Proper training at an early  age will make them safer and more aware of hazards so that they will feel encouraged to carry on cycling as an adult.
Too many cyclists seem to have tunnel vision and think it is the responsibility of every other road  user to look out for them in any situation .
I also think that it is about time that some kind of visible registration number should be on every bike , difficult to do and administer maybe but some clever sod should be able to come up with something .
I also saw an article in the news this week that a cycling lobby group is trying to have the highway code changed so that when  a vehicle is turning left it must give way to any cyclist that is undertaking it, in other words allow the cyclist to put themselves in a very hazardous situation and hope the driver sees them, not a good idea.
This probably reads as if I am anti cyclist but I am not, up to 5 years ago I cycled regulary but knackered knees put an end to it and I always cycled like I ride motorbikes, make myself visible , ride defensively and remember that in the event of an accident, no matter who is at fault, that it will be me who will probably get hurt most.

[fazersharp]

Allow them the turn left at a red light so that they are out of danger and on the straight, obviously taking care with traffic coming from the right, when I used to ride a push bike 12 miles round trip to work there were junctions where it was safer to go through a red light rather than run the gauntlet with two rows of traffic trying race to the road narrowing point, so by the time they got there I was already past the pinch.   

[Graham53]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21534.msg247723#msg247723 date=1481786581]
Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

There is a petition going around that calls for insurance and road tax for cyclists. I'm in two minds about it. Sure they are bloody annoying especially the ones with black bikes and clothing and no lights but on the other hand it would be a shame if the last free form of transport were to disappear.
[/quote]


I always found it stupid that a 16yr old moped rider needs insurance ,road tax ,a licence etc but is restricted to 30 mph and no acceleration and then gets overtaken by a 14yr old on a 21speed mountain bike with no training , no insurance, licence, road tax , imo its mental and the things you see cyclists do out on the road is suicidal i.e.wearing headphones trying to go Up the inside of an HGV that's indicating left.

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21534.msg247723#msg247723 date=1481786581]
Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

There is a petition going around that calls for insurance and road tax for cyclists. I'm in two minds about it. Sure they are bloody annoying especially the ones with black bikes and clothing and no lights but on the other hand it would be a shame if the last free form of transport were to disappear.
[/quote]


Walking, running, skipping........ :lol

[darrsi]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-n...estminster

[slappy]

[quote author=crickleymal link=topic=21534.msg247724#msg247724 date=1481787734]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21534.msg247723#msg247723 date=1481786581]
Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

There is a petition going around that calls for insurance and road tax for cyclists. I'm in two minds about it. Sure they are bloody annoying especially the ones with black bikes and clothing and no lights but on the other hand it would be a shame if the last free form of transport were to disappear.
[/quote]


Walking, running, skipping........ :lol
[/quote]


Don't get me started on pedestrians and joggers, and what is it with bloody unicycles? Seen a guy a few times on my way to work on one, riding along the pavement, makes  " normal" cyclists look safe.

[Bretty]

I think it's funny that people suggest that cyclists should take a CBT style test as if it would make them better riders? ...because that works for moped riders!!! :lol :lol :lol

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21534.msg247795#msg247795 date=1481870156]
[quote author=crickleymal link=topic=21534.msg247724#msg247724 date=1481787734]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21534.msg247723#msg247723 date=1481786581]
Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?
Bearing in mind they continue to dangerously jump red lights, undertake lorries and buses, and generally throw caution to the wind on a daily basis!

There is a petition going around that calls for insurance and road tax for cyclists. I'm in two minds about it. Sure they are bloody annoying especially the ones with black bikes and clothing and no lights but on the other hand it would be a shame if the last free form of transport were to disappear.
[/quote]


Walking, running, skipping........ :lol
[/quote]


Don't get me started on pedestrians and joggers, and what is it with bloody unicycles? Seen a guy a few times on my way to work on one, riding along the pavement, makes  " normal" cyclists look safe.
[/quote]


Or i keep seeing some nutter on one of those long push bikes that you lay back on, so trucks have a better chance of mangling him.

[YamFazFan]

I've noticed that the latest fashion is riding cycles no handed with both hands stuffed in the coat pockets.

That's brave with all the pot-holes about :eek

[Grahamm]

Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?

An argument that comes up many a time. Usually from drivers who don't understand that there's a difference between 100kg of cyclist and rider and 1.5 tonnes or more of car (not forgetting that it's estimated that over a million drivers on the road are uninsured).

As two-wheel users ourselves, we should be *encouraging* others to also use two wheels, doing so reduces pollution, reduces congestion, reduces the amount of space given over to car parking, reduces time lost due to ill-health etc.

Oh, and cycles were on the roads *before* the "big boys" too...

Yes, cyclists should have lights, ride responsibly, not jump red lights etc etc, but the ones who do that sort of stuff are not going to bother with getting insurance anyway because they know that there's virtually damn all chance of them getting caught without it in the first place.

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21534.msg247723#msg247723 date=1481786581]
Talking about insurance, does anyone else think that if cyclists are gonna play with the big boys on the road, shouldn't they have insurance as well?

An argument that comes up many a time. Usually from drivers who don't understand that there's a difference between 100kg of cyclist and rider and 1.5 tonnes or more of car (not forgetting that it's estimated that over a million drivers on the road are uninsured).

As two-wheel users ourselves, we should be *encouraging* others to also use two wheels, doing so reduces pollution, reduces congestion, reduces the amount of space given over to car parking, reduces time lost due to ill-health etc.

Oh, and cycles were on the roads *before* the "big boys" too...

Yes, cyclists should have lights, ride responsibly, not jump red lights etc etc, but the ones who do that sort of stuff are not going to bother with getting insurance anyway because they know that there's virtually damn all chance of them getting caught without it in the first place.
[/quote]


Pedestrians were on the roads/tracks way before cars so that's really a moot point to be honest, times have changed!

[mickvp]

I think cyclists should really have some sort of basic insurance requirement and I dont see what sort of bearing the combined weight of cyclist + bike have on the matter either? A "100Kg cyclist+ bike" still has the ability to cause a lot of damage, not only directly through them colliding with another vehicle, but also by their actions directly causing an accident invlving multiple vehicles and then the scope of the damage becomes more apparent.

VED is a no-go though I would have thought as its based on emissions now? unless its a brussel sprout fuelled post-christmas ride, the emissions ought to be fairly low :lol

Insirance for all road users if nothing else ought to make everyone who uses the roads a bit more accountable for their actions.

[Graham53]

I think cyclists should really have some sort of basic insurance requirement and I dont see what sort of bearing the combined weight of cyclist + bike have on the matter either? A "100Kg cyclist+ bike" still has the ability to cause a lot of damage, not only directly through them colliding with another vehicle, but also by their actions directly causing an accident invlving multiple vehicles and then the scope of the damage becomes more apparent.

VED is a no-go though I would have thought as its based on emissions now? unless its a brussel sprout fuelled post-christmas ride, the emissions ought to be fairly low :lol

Insirance for all road users if nothing else ought to make everyone who uses the roads a bit more accountable for their actions.

Totally agree with that , I used to be a bus driver in London ( don't hate me I always let motorcycles out !!)
And the crap I saw cyclists do in a 3 hour period one morning I counted 75 cyclists running red lights but the best one was I was in a queue at a red light and parked in a bay just before the lights in Clapham was a brand new Range Rover vogue SE and this girl on a cycle tried to ride through a gap between a lorry and the Range Rover next to it and her metal pedals caught and scraped the side of the Range Rover , she stopped looked at the damage giggled then rode off , fuck knows how much the damage cost the owner but it must have been big , reg number and insurance will make them accountable for misdemeanours as are all of us road users

[darrsi]

[quote author=mickvp link=topic=21534.msg247935#msg247935 date=1482086841]
I think cyclists should really have some sort of basic insurance requirement and I dont see what sort of bearing the combined weight of cyclist + bike have on the matter either? A "100Kg cyclist+ bike" still has the ability to cause a lot of damage, not only directly through them colliding with another vehicle, but also by their actions directly causing an accident invlving multiple vehicles and then the scope of the damage becomes more apparent.

VED is a no-go though I would have thought as its based on emissions now? unless its a brussel sprout fuelled post-christmas ride, the emissions ought to be fairly low :lol

Insirance for all road users if nothing else ought to make everyone who uses the roads a bit more accountable for their actions.

Totally agree with that , I used to be a bus driver in London ( don't hate me I always let motorcycles out !!)
And the crap I saw cyclists do in a 3 hour period one morning I counted 75 cyclists running red lights but the best one was I was in a queue at a red light and parked in a bay just before the lights in Clapham was a brand new Range Rover vogue SE and this girl on a cycle tried to ride through a gap between a lorry and the Range Rover next to it and her metal pedals caught and scraped the side of the Range Rover , she stopped looked at the damage giggled then rode off , fuck knows how much the damage cost the owner but it must have been big , reg number and insurance will make them accountable for misdemeanours as are all of us road users
[/quote]


When i worked in Londons Oxford Street years ago i would be out getting lunch and see at least something happen every day with a cyclist.
I think as their adrenaline levels were up it made them more carefree and also angry and quick tempered.
Red lights simply did not exist to them, and one thing that was really noticeable was that black taxi drivers absolutely hated them and would row with them at the drop of a hat, or just block their path on purpose.