Great interview

[alan09]

Remoanimg bitch MP gets it in the ass :rollin :rollin
https://youtu.be/Rn3vuKEgTbs

[Kenbob]

Luv it!

[mtread]

Stupid radio presenter missing the point, and doesn't understand the difference between national referendum democracy and parliamentary democracy. Anyway, she wiped the floor with that tosser Goldsmith 

[pilninggas]

Julia Hartley-Brewer owned the Libdem.

All she was doing was highlighting the 'zombie democracy' era we have entered, where potentially any vote could be contested for genuine or spurious reasons. Sarah Olney won with the backing of quarter of the electorate. We once accepted that, although now there seems to be a noisy minority who whine this isn't a true democratic mandate, as they have done with the EURef, despite it breaking turnout records. Potentially every vote could result in a legal challenge in the future. You can't have your cake and eat it.

[mtread]

Agreed, and if you don't bother to vote you can't complain about the result.
The difference between the two is that as an MP you are only elected for a term, which can be no more than 5 years. Whereas some people seem to think that a referendum result is forever. which it isn't. It's only valid until you ask the question again. As we did before (with a similar question) in 1975.
Oh and you mean that Julia Hartley-Brewer who used to write for the Sunday Express. There's a surprise !

[pilninggas]

Agreed, and if you don't bother to vote you can't complain about the result.
The difference between the two is that as an MP you are only elected for a term, which can be no more than 5 years. Whereas some people seem to think that a referendum result is forever. which it isn't. It's only valid until you ask the question again. As we did before (with a similar question) in 1975.
Oh and you mean that Julia Hartley-Brewer who used to write for the Sunday Express. There's a surprise !

And as with the Scots ref, perhaps in a generation the question could be asked again. Not in short order though - the majority have spoken. As for JHB writing for the Express, so? I can't stand Owen Jones column so I dont read it (although I do follow him on twitter to laugh at his absurd views).

[VNA]

Stupid radio presenter missing the point, and doesn't understand the difference between national referendum democracy and parliamentary democracy. Anyway, she wiped the floor with that tosser Goldsmith  [img alt= height=20 width=20]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/img]

Spot on.  Dreadful interview.  The interview seems to be about Julia Hartley-Brewer skewed political views rather than the interviewee.  Pish.  It seemed like a case of the inexperienced interviewee letting the interviewer off the hook.

On the other hand whilst channel hopping the other night I came across ‘The Preston Report’ and being interviewed was Baroness Warsi I think she was.  The referendum was discussed and Warsi stated that Brexit means Brexit, Preston asked whether that was a hard or soft Brexit – Warsi waffled on about the country having decided etc but wouldn’t answer the question.  Sadly, in that case the interviewer let the interviewee of the hook.

And as with the Scots ref, perhaps in a generation the question could be asked again. Not in short order though - the majority have spoken.

If it is to be a hard Brexit then there is a strong possibility of a second Scottish Referendum on Independence.  We were told in the 2014 referendum the only way that Scotland could guarantee remaining in the EU was to vote NO.  Many people voted NO on that basis.  Then in 2016 a load of turkeys voted for Christmas. 

Let’s face it the leave campaign won on the back of blatant lies.  To use the latest buzz phrase, it was a post truth referendum.  And having voted to leave we now find that nobody knows what it actually means to leave.

I think that means a second EU referendum – this time based on facts – tell the people what the deal is and what the cost is.  That’s if the Brexiters can even get to the point of putting a deal together!

[pilninggas]

Stupid radio presenter missing the point, and doesn't understand the difference between national referendum democracy and parliamentary democracy. Anyway, she wiped the floor with that tosser Goldsmith  [img alt= height=20 width=20]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/img]

Spot on.  Dreadful interview.  The interview seems to be about Julia Hartley-Brewer skewed political views rather than the interviewee.  Pish.  It seemed like a case of the inexperienced interviewee letting the interviewer off the hook.

On the other hand whilst channel hopping the other night I came across ‘The Preston Report’ and being interviewed was Baroness Warsi I think she was.  The referendum was discussed and Warsi stated that Brexit means Brexit, Preston asked whether that was a hard or soft Brexit – Warsi waffled on about the country having decided etc but wouldn’t answer the question.  Sadly, in that case the interviewer let the interviewee of the hook.

And as with the Scots ref, perhaps in a generation the question could be asked again. Not in short order though - the majority have spoken.

If it is to be a hard Brexit then there is a strong possibility of a second Scottish Referendum on Independence.  We were told in the 2014 referendum the only way that Scotland could guarantee remaining in the EU was to vote NO.  Many people voted NO on that basis.  Then in 2016 a load of turkeys voted for Christmas. 

Let’s face it the leave campaign won on the back of blatant lies.  To use the latest buzz phrase, it was a post truth referendum.  And having voted to leave we now find that nobody knows what it actually means to leave.

I think that means a second EU referendum – this time based on facts – tell the people what the deal is and what the cost is.  That’s if the Brexiters can even get to the point of putting a deal together!

Mistruths on both sides: immediate recession, war in Europe all scare mongering. What about Scot's ref where Sturgeon banked on an oil boom to fund the costings? I bet ScotNats have boiling piss for not mounting legal challenges in 2014

It always seems like some Nationalism/Sovereignty is more equal than others...

[VNA]

Mistruths on both sides: immediate recession, war in Europe all scare mongering.

At this moment, nothing has changed.  What we have had is a reaction to uncertainty.  Our economy is already worth considerably less just at the thought of possibly leaving.

And don’t forget it still just the possibility of leaving.  We are still full members of the EU.

What about Scot's ref where Sturgeon banked on an oil boom to fund the costings?

Perhaps you mean Alex Salmond.  And no he didn’t.  But yes the Scottish economy took into account the price of oil at that time.  And can I make a prediction?  Oil prices will rise over the next year, this will hit the UK doubly hard – oil is priced in dollars.

I bet ScotNats have boiling piss for not mounting legal challenges in 2014

Legal challenges could have been legitimately launched.  Westminster tore up the Edinburgh agreement in the closing weeks of the referendum.  That effectively meant that those who cast their vote in the postal ballot voted in a different referendum to those who voted on the day due to the introduction of ‘The Vow’.  It became a farce.

At the end of the day I didn’t vote for a Tory government.  Scotland didn’t vote for a Tory government (we have only one Tory MP in Scotland).  I didn’t vote for Brexit.  Scotland didn’t vote for Brexit.  The Scottish Government has a clear mandate from the people of Scotland to do everything it can to stop Brexit.

Umm that is whatever Brexit turns out to be. Anybody know?  Umm nope.

[mtread]

If it is to be a hard Brexit then there is a strong possibility of a second Scottish Referendum on Independence.  We were told in the 2014 referendum the only way that Scotland could guarantee remaining in the EU was to vote NO.  Many people voted NO on that basis.  Then in 2016 a load of turkeys voted for Christmas.  Let’s face it the leave campaign won on the back of blatant lies. 

Indeed. I wonder if the vote was held today knowing:
There is no £350 million a week extra for the NHS
Turkey is not about to join the EU
The £ would be devalued by 10%

what the result would be?

At least Remain voters knew what they were voting for. Leave voters only knew what they were voting against. What they have voted for is anybody's guess.

[VNA]

what the result would be?

It would of course be REMAIN.

Which is what pissed me off about the whole business.  Here we have MP's etc telling us that the result is clear - the country has spoken.  Yet it is clear that the LEAVE campaign was almost 100% pure bull shit.

You could say that this is standard practise for politics, but I’d say it sets a dangerous precedent, and we’ve kinda seen it again just recently with the US Presidential elections.  Yup, it’s the ‘post truth’ era, say whatever you want to get the result you want.

Michael Gove made the seminal statement of the BREXIT campaign “we’ve had enough of the experts”

The REMAIN campaign meanwhile failed to put the positive case for the EU, instead thinking that project fear worked well in Scotland (when in fact it was a disaster), well they just rolled out the same old crap again and expected people to do as they were told.  They couldn’t have got it more wrong.

Right across most of the developed world people are more and more pissed off.  Our economies have been miss-managed, services have been cut, workers terms, rights, conditions and pay have been cut whilst the elite have prospered like never before.

People wanted something to kick, and the Tory party offered up the EU with DC’s dumb EU referendum.  And the arrogant project fear just encouraged people to kick it hard.

But yeah what when the reality kicks in.  There’s no money to be saved.  It will cost billions upon billions over many years to remove ourselves from the EU, and then of course, the reality that, well, actually we really could do with free access to the biggest and most advanced single trading market in the whole world that just so happens to be on our doorstep. 

Second EU referendum?  Yes please!

[pilninggas]

what the result would be?

It would of course be REMAIN.

Which is what pissed me off about the whole business.  Here we have MP's etc telling us that the result is clear - the country has spoken.  Yet it is clear that the LEAVE campaign was almost 100% pure bull shit.

You could say that this is standard practise for politics, but I’d say it sets a dangerous precedent, and we’ve kinda seen it again just recently with the US Presidential elections.  Yup, it’s the ‘post truth’ era, say whatever you want to get the result you want.

Michael Gove made the seminal statement of the BREXIT campaign “we’ve had enough of the experts”

The REMAIN campaign meanwhile failed to put the positive case for the EU, instead thinking that project fear worked well in Scotland (when in fact it was a disaster), well they just rolled out the same old crap again and expected people to do as they were told.  They couldn’t have got it more wrong.

Right across most of the developed world people are more and more pissed off.  Our economies have been miss-managed, services have been cut, workers terms, rights, conditions and pay have been cut whilst the elite have prospered like never before.

People wanted something to kick, and the Tory party offered up the EU with DC’s dumb EU referendum.  And the arrogant project fear just encouraged people to kick it hard.

But yeah what when the reality kicks in.  There’s no money to be saved.  It will cost billions upon billions over many years to remove ourselves from the EU, and then of course, the reality that, well, actually we really could do with free access to the biggest and most advanced single trading market in the whole world that just so happens to be on our doorstep. 

Second EU referendum?  Yes please!

Oh, dear what Gove actually said was "We've had enough of the 'experts' ", the political class who think you are better than you or I. Off the top of my head: Blair/Mandelson - The Iraq debacle, Major, privy council enforcer, The Kinnocks £1m/year from the EU (inc expenses), Ken Clarke (The Tobacco barons stooge), the EU benificiaries of our payments. They think they know better than us, but by-and-large they only want to feather their own nests.

As for the cost of the EU, 40% is spent on CAP. Measures show it has little or no social benefit. The whole agricultural subsidies business is out of hand, it was out of hand 2 decades ago. Also interesting to see Fillon describing the EU as 'inefficient and old fashioned'. If the EU had been willing to undergo proper top-down reform, I'd have voted to stay, but it is utterly incapable of it. Stupid practices like once monthly taking the whole parliament to Strasbourg are unjustifiably wasteful, yet one country got it's way and the rest had to fund this ridiculous process (do you like your income tax being spent on that? I bloody don't)

I totally agree that it will cost billions to divorce from the EU. That makes me angry. It makes me angry because we never got asked when Maastrict happened or when Brown signed the Lisbon treaty. Thank goodness we never joined the Eurozone.

[VNA]

 

Oh, dear what Gove actually said was "We've had enough of the 'experts' ", the political class who think you are better than you or I. Off the top of my head: Blair/Mandelson - The Iraq debacle, Major, privy council enforcer, The Kinnocks £1m/year from the EU (inc expenses), Ken Clarke (The Tobacco barons stooge), the EU benificiaries of our payments. They think they know better than us, but by-and-large they only want to feather their own nests.

Oh no he did not! - Here's the interview;

! No longer available

As for the cost of the EU, 40% is spent on CAP. Measures show it has little or no social benefit.

Indeed.  However, CAP is a little more complex than some would have us believe.  It’s one of the reasons I want us to stay in the EU.  The Rural Development Fund comes under Cap.  We’ve derived huge benefits from that fund in Scotland.  From 1979 onwards we endured 17 years of Tory rule that we did not vote for, if it wasn’t for CAP and the Rural Development fund many of our more remote communities would have perished and died, communities that today with investment are now thriving and contributing to the economy.  So oh yes there is social benefit. 

Stupid practices like once monthly taking the whole parliament to Strasbourg are unjustifiably wasteful, yet one country got it's way and the rest had to fund this ridiculous process (do you like your income tax being spent on that? I bloody don't)

I’ll agree with you there pilninggas, yes it a total waste of money and some of these practises give the EU and air of arrogance which is coming back to bite it now. 

[pilninggas]

 

Oh, dear what Gove actually said was "We've had enough of the 'experts' ", the political class who think you are better than you or I. Off the top of my head: Blair/Mandelson - The Iraq debacle, Major, privy council enforcer, The Kinnocks £1m/year from the EU (inc expenses), Ken Clarke (The Tobacco barons stooge), the EU benificiaries of our payments. They think they know better than us, but by-and-large they only want to feather their own nests.

Oh no he did not! - Here's the interview;

! No longer available

As for the cost of the EU, 40% is spent on CAP. Measures show it has little or no social benefit.

Indeed.  However, CAP is a little more complex than some would have us believe.  It’s one of the reasons I want us to stay in the EU.  The Rural Development Fund comes under Cap.  We’ve derived huge benefits from that fund in Scotland.  From 1979 onwards we endured 17 years of Tory rule that we did not vote for, if it wasn’t for CAP and the Rural Development fund many of our more remote communities would have perished and died, communities that today with investment are now thriving and contributing to the economy.  So oh yes there is social benefit. 

Stupid practices like once monthly taking the whole parliament to Strasbourg are unjustifiably wasteful, yet one country got it's way and the rest had to fund this ridiculous process (do you like your income tax being spent on that? I bloody don't)

I’ll agree with you there pilninggas, yes it a total waste of money and some of these practises give the EU and air of arrogance which is coming back to bite it now.

Obama, The IMF both backtracked aftwerwards, the others want to deals with us. Gove was bang on about the Eurocrats wanting to play an independent UK down, as a net contributor they were desperate to paint our exit as a doom and gloom story - disgusting behaviour. A degree in PPE does not an expert make and the more of these career-politicos sent to pasture the better.

As for CAP, I totally want to support rural farming/agriculture/fising in this country; CAP isn't the answer. Despite fiddled numbers almost 50% still ends up in french farmers hands (and more often than not French landowners) a total buy-off. I know the unimaginative remainers can't always see it, but rather than paying into a pot that allows french farmers to grow wheat at an utter loss, lay decent land fallow or buy new machinery for bulgarian farmers (i wonder how traceable that is?). Why not instead keep the money and really support rural farmer in Scotland, regain our fisheries for Cornish fishermen and invest in our arable. The whole think stinks and the system isn't working (needs real reform, EU utterly incapable). I'd support the SNP righly claiming subsidies for crofters in those wonderful islands, just as i'd like to see local dairy and orchards here in the West Country subsidised carefully. It really makes me sick to know my taxes got down a bottomless pit that could just allow an investor to buy a meadow and let it lie fallow (real story, 5x better return than doing anything with it).

For me it comes back to a simple fact that the EU is never going to reform, is wasteful and has expanded far too quickly. I don't suppose you and I will ever agree, with is fair enough, I can assure you that I wants best for the UK (all of it), but not Romania or Poland or Portugal (all great countries, but not our responsibility economically or socially).

[VNA]

Obama, The IMF both backtracked aftwerwards, the others want to deals with us. Gove was bang on about the Eurocrats wanting to play an independent UK down, as a net contributor they were desperate to paint our exit as a doom and gloom story - disgusting behaviour. A degree in PPE does not an expert make and the more of these career-politicos sent to pasture the better.

  Backtracked on what?  Nor has anything happened.  We are today still fully paid up members of the EU.  The fact that the pound has dropped significantly suggests that the experts predations may well come true should we leave the EU.  Frankly nobody knows what is happening right now, anybody wanting to do business in the UK will take that into consideration, investment in the UK will inevitably be slow until we at least know what is going to happen.

And what Gove said is quite clear “we’ve had enough of experts” and no he wasn’t talking about politicians, he was talking about economic experts.  He then said people should ignore the experts and people should “trust themselves”
It’s breath-taking. 

For me it comes back to a simple fact that the EU is never going to reform

The EU has been slow to listen, but it will have to reform.  If it is to survive it has to, and it has to get better.

And yes there is the possibility of the EU crumbling.  Do we really want to go back to 28 separate countries, 28 separate currencies, 28 separate economies all with their own taxes and tariffs, 28 different legal systems to deal with, 28 different standards in every sector you can think of. 

Not to mention what was the inspiration, the motivation for the EU in the first place.
If this happens, never mind the evitability of the UK economy shrinking if there is a hard Brexit but in the event of the collapse of the EU every economy within the EU will shrink.

What those who voted leave on the 23[sup]rd[/sup] of June voted for was to become poorer.  You could say that this is the first time that people have been offered a recession and voted for it.  Ignore the experts indeed!

But to be honest one of two things will happen;

We will remain full members of the EU as we are today. (it just takes time for people to understand that there is no advantage in leaving – not to mention it’s a nightmare getting out.)

Or

We Brexit but pay to access the single market and accept free movement (which will pretty much mean paying what we pay now – no discount on a new deal – but having no say in how the EU reforms.

[pilninggas]

And I thought you were a socialist.

The BoE and the IMF both talked Brexit down and Remain up - they didn't do it for much beyond keeping the stock of the very wealthy high. When we voted out they backtracked. There's a case for giving Art Carney the poke. The IMF is thoroughly discredited anyway (Lagarde is a bent ponce).

People I know who voted leave, knew we may well be 'poorer' in the short term and be brave about the future. Could be worse anyway, being young and in the Eurozone is disgracefully represive 50% unemployment, cheaper to brain-drain the East and not train the young - free movement means less investment in your own people just pinch the skilled from elsewhere. What a legacy!

The EU just won't reform, it won't; it might enact some panic tactics now others are seeing a post bloc future, but it'll be a sleight of hand. The Commission is too fixed in it's ways to change and as indirectly appointed executive isn't going to get 'voted out'. Maybe some MEPs will shit themselves and start taking them to task [can't see it though].

You have said there is no advantage to leaving, I still see exiting CAP and managing our subsidies as a classically obvious reason to leave. Why should UK taxpayers fund the farmers of other countries? Why isn't removing another layer of governance an advantage? I want less politicians making higher quality decisions, not loads contradicting each other on different levels

When we go, there will be recessions, they may happen in our neighbours who have balanced their books based on payments from the EU who paid from our remittance. I like many of those countries, and their people, but we do not owe them any favours.

I'd also love to sit in on a trade deal as Germany works to get a great deal for it's auto industry as the UK is it's biggest customer.

Exciting times.

[agricola]

Doubtless, we all have our own reasons for voting Leave or Remain. I voted Leave. I was born in the early 50s, and went to schools in my local village/town, because a place was created for me at birth. My parents did not have to trawl all the schools within 50 miles to try to find a vacant desk, or move house to do so. When I left school, I had a choice from any one of umpteen major employers, or nationally owned utility providers, and hundreds of other companies. Todays leavers have little hope of finding work, so are encouraged to stay on at the "Acadamys", or encouraged to go to University and then compete for the non existent work opportunities. As I grew up, we explored the local areas, and it was indeed rare to find a field, anywhere, that did not have a crop of some description growing in it. Today, I can walk through field after field of scrub or grass, with our food now travelling half way across Europe. I walk through my local streets, and see dog shit, litter, blocked drains that flood every time it rains, because councils have insufficient funds as a result of EU imposed spending targets. I could go on, but wont. Cameron attempted to try to get the EU to reform, which may have led to doing things differently here, so that we may try to re-capture our lost identity. The EU was having none of it. It will never reform because it cant. It encouraged the Ukraine to come closer, then turned away when the Bear bared its teeth. There will be negative impacts should we finally extracate ourselves from the rotten corrupt EU, but I dont recall my parents, or all those other citizens who rebuilt this nation after after the war, complaining like todays never had it so good generation. Lets just get on with it

[alan09]

https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial...532257120/

[mtread]

The experts said 'Remain'. I believe the experts. If ever I'm under the surgeon's knife I'd rather have an expert thank you very much. Better than someone who says 'I don't know what the outcome will be, but don't worry things will get better...... eventually'.

[Graham53]

You mean the experts that said house prices would go down by 10%,  interest rates would go up , there'd need an emergency budget , a double dip recession would happen , firms like Nissan and google would not invest and leave altogether ,unemployment would rise and Trump didn't have a cat in hells chance..... hmmm don't ya just love an expert
I hope you don't go under the knife with those experts wielding it  mash
They were all guessing , how can they be experts on something that is unprecedented.
If my surgeon was doing an unprecedented operation I'd rather he was calm , confident and prepared than undecided and running around like a headless chicken panicking which is what the majority of politicians seem to be doing.