Coolant loss - watch this space

[markie_wales]

Had my Gen 1 for a few months now, but over the weekend, found out it was just about out of coolant. Just put in ~2 litres and topped up the small white over flow tank but not had time to run it yet. No leaks on the garage floor (well except from the rad overflow pipe when I slightly over filled it!) so guessing it's either water pump seal or head gasket. Only put ~2 thousand on it since I got it off DevilsYam so confident it was full when I picked it up.

Will need to drag it out into the sun light and check the top of the exhaust for a leak from the drain hole, sort of hope it's the water pump seals rather than the head gasket (well actually hope it's nothing but very much doubt that!).

Anyone had a water pump seal go, and got some idea how much it loses per mile/100 miles in case I can't see any leak?

Either way, not going to be going far any time soon  :'(

cheers

Markie

[markie_wales]

more....

How common is water pump seal failure compared to head gasket? Or is there a definitive symptom for either water pump seal or head gasket failure - as I don't want to spend a day doing one to find out it's the other?

In terms of water in the oil (head gasket) there is no obvious mayo on the base of the filler cap or visible through the sight glass, but never had a coolant leak on any bike before so not 100% sure my "I can't see any contamination" thoughts are accurate! Also if it was a very slow leak I just didn't notice, could it be that it evaporated off before forming the gloop? Pictures of gloop welcome

cheers

Markie

[BBROWN1664]

Now you have topped it up, run the bike until the fan comes on and make sure its not just the fan playing up.

I had a problem on my ST1100 once. It worked fine all the time I had it apart from one day when I had it idling on the driveway and just boiled over due to the fan not coming on. Fan never failed any other time. You may just have had a similar problem.

[pilninggas]

more....

How common is water pump seal failure compared to head gasket? Or is there a definitive symptom for either water pump seal or head gasket failure - as I don't want to spend a day doing one to find out it's the other?

In terms of water in the oil (head gasket) there is no obvious mayo on the base of the filler cap or visible through the sight glass, but never had a coolant leak on any bike before so not 100% sure my "I can't see any contamination" thoughts are accurate! Also if it was a very slow leak I just didn't notice, could it be that it evaporated off before forming the gloop? Pictures of gloop welcome

cheers

Markie

A head gasket failure can be detected using a 'block test' this senses combustion products in the cooling system (a chemical changes colour when exposed to CO2).

A car mechanic would probably do the test for a tenner.

[markie_wales]

Thanks for the response fellas.

Brown - fan seems to be working OK - and was definitely running when I got home! I'd pay good money for someone to prove a twig/stone got stuck in there, caused it and then shook itself loose

pilninggas - not heard of the block test. Would that be a case of running it for a while and supplying some of the coolant to the mechanic? If so that's well worth a tenner or so to confirm of eliminate head gasket. How long would I need to run it for - 20 mins of so?

cheers

Markie

[markie_wales]

The joys of google - watched a couple of YouTube videos for the block tester. I'll call around some local garages and see if anyone is willing to do the check to save me buying a test kit. Having said that - looks easy enough, but guess it takes a little while for enough of the gases to get into the coolant before it's detectable. And since I've basically just replaced all the coolant, will make sure I give it a good run in the garage first.

Fingers crossed!

EDIT: or anyone got one in NE Hampshire and want some free beer? 

cheers

Markie

[pilninggas]

Thanks for the response fellas.

Brown - fan seems to be working OK - and was definitely running when I got home! I'd pay good money for someone to prove a twig/stone got stuck in there, caused it and then shook itself loose

pilninggas - not heard of the block test. Would that be a case of running it for a while and supplying some of the coolant to the mechanic? If so that's well worth a tenner or so to confirm of eliminate head gasket. How long would I need to run it for - 20 mins of so?

cheers

Markie

The kits I have used have a bulb full of the detecting solution that gets placed over the rad-cap hole. It wont take much CO2 concentration to trigger it.

tbh all these big multicylinder yamahas don't seem prone to head gasket failure (or they rarely reach the mileage where the gasket has been ablated enough), so my guess is that the cause of your loss-of-coolant incident lies elsewhere.

[markie_wales]

Ran the bike for ~15-20 mins, topped up the coolant (assumed a few bubbles etc would come out) but looking grim. Overflow tank now empty, and can't see fluid in the rad. There was ALOT of fluid coming out of the over flow pipe - does it T into anything else other than just the top of the rad?

More investigation required.

Fan ran fine.

Beer needs to be consumed - never had a problem with my KTM in 5 years and 20,000 miles, probably half of which was off road!

Cheers

Markie

EDIT: thinking perhaps a blockage somewhere etc

[fazer-rat]

this sounds to me like the pressure cap is knackered,,  water boils at a much higher temperature when under pressure so if you are losing the coolant through the overflow but not seeing bubbles in the coolant then i reckon your pressure cap is either not seated correctly or is knackered.
i had a gpz900r that i bought really cheap because the head gasket had gone.  i changed the pressure cap and it was absolutely fine  8)
any chance you could borrow a cap off anyone?  just to see if its this?  where are you at?
if you're close you can borrow mine to test it

[markie_wales]

That'd be nice if it's just the cap. I'm in NE Hampshire (Fleet) if any one has one I can borrow for a tea and biccies / beer If not, for he likely cost may just get one.

From what I remember there was some coming out which I initially thought was just a bit of over fill but thinking back may have been more. Then there was a "gush" when I switched off.

Cheers

Markie

[fazer-rat]

try just taking the cap off,, make a rubber seal from an old inner tube or something the exact diameter of the hole then sanwich it in place with the cap,, this should seal it tighter if it is the cap but only run it until the fan comes on then shut off and let it cool.  if it stops the coolant loss its the cap thats faulty 
incidentally if it was the water pump seal you would lose coolant through the weep hole underneath onto the top of the exup valve and you would see steam and smell it

[markie_wales]

Ordered a new cap now, and it's been despatched, so I will wait until that arrives. Fingers crossed it's something this easy / relatively cheap!

Nothing obvious coming out the drain, but as I spilt some coolant when filling a few drops may have hit the exhaust as there was a little bit of steam for a little while but it didn't last long and would account for the amount that had been lost.

cheers

Markie

[ram]

are you overfilling the reservoir  tank. the high mark is hard to see but is quite away down from the top, if it is overfilled maybe it could syphon itself out?

[markie_wales]

are you overfilling the reservoir  tank. the high mark is hard to see but is quite away down from the top, if it is overfilled maybe it could syphon itself out?

I can see the mark on mine OK - as you say it's probably not half way up the overflow tank, so good call to point it out, even if I'm OK.

cheers

Markie

[markie_wales]

OK need some experience here.

I decided to top up the rad etc while waiting for the new rad cap to arrive. The manual states "Pour the recommended coolant into the radiator until it is full" - but before it gets to the top where the cap would go, it seems to have filled the reserve tank, and then starts pouring out the drain pipe on the off side of the bike. I assume this is the reserve tank drain (if there is such a thing). At this point I cannot see coolant at the top of the filler neck (where the cap goes).

So is the manual wrong in that you don't fill it to the top, or have I got some dodgy plumbing somewhere (stop sniggering at the back!!)? If so any pointers?

Never had an issue with coolant in 30 years of riding bikes, so this is a bit of a learning curve, as usually I just fill to the top of the neck.

Getting a bit annoyed now - more beer required!

cheers

Markie

[ram]

make sure you keep the tank cap on when filling rad then rad cap on when filling tank

[markie_wales]

make sure you keep the tank cap on when filling rad then rad cap on when filling tank

Tank cap was on when filling the rad, but still filled to the top.

Cheers

Markie

[fazer-rat]

on centre stand or side stand? i personally would fill the rad on the sidestand ;-)

[fazer-rat]

[quote author=ram link=topic=20548.msg236935#msg236935 date=1468348591]
make sure you keep the tank cap on when filling rad then rad cap on when filling tank

Tank cap was on when filling the rad, but still filled to the top.

Cheers

Markie
[/quote] summat not right here.  wish i was closer to take a look 

[markie_wales]

on centre stand or side stand? i personally would fill the rad on the sidestand ;-)

Centre stand. Thinking about it, if on side stand I think the over flow would just be worse IMHO.

cheers

Markie