EU in or out ?

[DILLIGAFF]

All the pundits reckon a date for the referendum will be announced soon, so how do you think it will go?

[fazersharp]

I want out
But I fear that if the out campaign don't sort themselves out and stop squabbling who is going to lead then we could end up staying in due to a lack of an effective opposition to the in.

[maddog04]

I'm all for out but need proper data on pro's and cons before I make an informed decision

[BBROWN1664]

In but with a better deal for the UK

Why the foc should we put so much in for so little out?

[maddog04]

Norway aren't in but have to pay billions just to trade with EU countries, that's like me paying all the window cleaners in the NW when I just go straight to my local one and say "how much to do me winders mate, sound....get on with it"
it's a foccin closed shop if you want to trade within the EU......pay us loads or foc off!

[markie_wales]

"IN" for me.  My dad runs a small but successful business and we just couldn't handle the import/export nonsense we see for non EU countries trying to work with the EU.  Given what he makes, we can't export to some countries but EU is fine. If EU changed the rules so we had to abide like non EU countries do, we'd be stuffed.

Also in what I do, we can work with EU really easily - when I see what non-EU countries have to do to deliver the same as us, we'd probably need to recruit within EU rather than UK.

Different industries may be different, but for my dad and my area, in is better.

People will still illegally want to come to the UK.  It won't make a jot of difference if we are in/out.

Oh and I am pro Scotland, if the UK vote out, and Scotland generally vote "in" expect to wave them good-bye.

Do I think our relationship with the EU is perfect? No. Do I want to see changes? Yes. But taking it all into account, I'd rather be in.

Cheers

Markie

[esetest]

Out, I don't believe all the scaremongering .

[fazersharp]

Norway aren't in but have to pay billions just to trade with EU countries,

Dont forget that our membership costs are in the region of £55 million A DAY
And norway have got foc all anyone wants

"IN" for me.  My dad runs a small but successful business and we just couldn't handle the import/export nonsense we see for non EU countries trying to work with the EU.  Given what he makes, we can't export to some countries but EU is fine. If EU changed the rules so we had to abide like non EU countries do, we'd be stuffed.

The Eu needs our trade more than we need theirs, so very quickly new agreements will be sorted out.
Also you are having problems with other countries precisely because we are in the eu, once we are out we will be free to negotiate our own separate and better terms for the whole world

And this bit in the vote SEEK FURTHER NEGOTIATIONS TO BETTER OUR CONTRACT. Is pointless because that is what Cameroon has been doing all winter instead of running the country and has --- even not yet, come up with nothing of any substance
The time for further negotiations is over there are none to be had that would ever be accepted by the rest of the EU club

[markie_wales]

[quote author=maddog04 link=topic=19420.msg224477#msg224477 date=1455719084]The Eu needs our trade more than we need theirs, so very quickly new agreements will be sorted out. (1)

Also you are having problems with other countries precisely because we are in the eu, once we are out we will be free to negotiate our own separate and better terms for the whole world (2)

(1) In my dads personal case that is not true. He sources everything from the UK and exports. Mine is similar but not quite as one sided. People always point to the German car sector when following your position, there are other sectors that would like us to be out to help their competitiveness. In our personal cases we need them as customers more than we need them as suppliers.

(2) not true in our case. All countries (EU or not) have difficulties trading with some nations. Being in/out of the EU is not going to change that. Unless you know a country that blocks EU trade because of the EU status as opposed to being (for example) anti the west? Trading outside the EU into the EU is more difficult than trading when inside. I know of no one who thinks differently. Agree let's not discuss Norway, they only really export oil, pretty much every thing else is import when dealing with the EU. 

I fully accept the business you are in may have a different experience,  or it may be a philosophical "out" view you have, but I am  going to vote on what's best for me and mine (including my kids futures).

There is scaremongering on BOTH  sides I dislike - and picking through the actual facts is difficult, as both sides interpret differently.

Good luck to anyone trying to predict what "out" will really look like. Both sides are making claims neither of which are FACT.

Cheers

Markie 

[sadlonelygit]

the problem with the EU is it allows opt outs/preferential treatment/do what the foc u like to different countries, which imo makes a mockery of the union bit.
also Brussels, an unelected body of beaureaucrats get to tell us that our law/actions/measures are illegal.
i get to do a fair bit of driving abroad and i have to know all the differing legislations in each country i go to, and i know that johnny foreigner sees us as an easy target.
the schengen agreement..........it was like that before the EU, i know because i was there.
the dublin regulations. if this was enforced there would be no migrant camps in calais.
unfortunately refugees are being used as political levy and the EU want to spread them around a bit. well if the EU hadnt been in such a hurry to accept Turkey, Greece (well thought out that one), Estonia, Romania then there would be an aid buffer zone, but now they are just pouring into europe.
regarding trade, every country is out for itself, as an example if Germany got arsey with us if we leave, how does an 30% import duty on VW/BMW/Merc sound. Remember the BSE scare and the 3 year illegal ban on beef from the french. imo once we are out new protocols will very quickly put into place regarding trade.
Don't get me wrong, i love Europe, but hate the EU.
Finally, we aren't european, we're british, we fought to stay that way and to allow countries in europe to keep their identities, and yet now watch them throw it all away for a CAP handout and a new bypass.

[Val]

All the pundits reckon a date for the referendum will be announced soon, so how do you think it will go?

as a true foccer I think fukp represents me best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tADgYkAfXro

Europe
"I pledge that the UK will leave Europe by 2025 and the edge of the Solar System by 2050. Common Market sense."  :rollin :rollin

[lew600fazer]

It needs to get back to what it was originally formed for a group of trading nations. The border controls need to be re- introduced. No company should be allowed to export jobs from one member state to another, as in wage costs in Poland/Romainia etc! are cheaper than wage costs in Germany, France or Britain so I will transfer my production to another member country  and sack my home countries work force this should not be alllowed.
I think the UK in/out vote will be very much based on the refugee/ economic migrants question.
Security will also play a big part as well, for the Uk's own security we have to stay in now. Thanks to Idiots like Merkel throwing her arms open and welcoming all and sundry the EU is now inundated with cells of terrorists and the UK now has more than it's fair share. So for me we have to stay in but not at any price, Just reading this I am as fecked up as the EU is  :lol

[Deefer666]

Out...


If we get our border controls back then less stolen bikes leave our ports in unchecked vans departing for Eastern Europe, demand for stolen bikes drops as they get more difficult to get out of the country, bike thieves who are have a boom time at the moment start looking elsewhere to make money, I can sleep properly at night without worrying that a local toerag is gonna lift my bike in the night and sell it to some Latvian for a wrap of brown and it'll still be there waiting for me in the morning.

[Neo]

Out but to late to many foreigners here

[Frosties]

the problem with the EU is it allows opt outs/preferential treatment/do what the foc u like to different countries, which imo makes a mockery of the union bit.
also Brussels, an unelected body of beaureaucrats get to tell us that our law/actions/measures are illegal.
i get to do a fair bit of driving abroad and i have to know all the differing legislations in each country i go to, and i know that johnny foreigner sees us as an easy target.
the schengen agreement..........it was like that before the EU, i know because i was there.
the dublin regulations. if this was enforced there would be no migrant camps in calais.
unfortunately refugees are being used as political levy and the EU want to spread them around a bit. well if the EU hadnt been in such a hurry to accept Turkey, Greece (well thought out that one), Estonia, Romania then there would be an aid buffer zone, but now they are just pouring into europe.
regarding trade, every country is out for itself, as an example if Germany got arsey with us if we leave, how does an 30% import duty on VW/BMW/Merc sound. Remember the BSE scare and the 3 year illegal ban on beef from the french. imo once we are out new protocols will very quickly put into place regarding trade.
Don't get me wrong, i love Europe, but hate the EU.
Finally, we aren't european, we're british, we fought to stay that way and to allow countries in europe to keep their identities, and yet now watch them throw it all away for a CAP handout and a new bypass.

Couldn't have summed it up ant better - OUT!

[mtread]

IN      otherwise what's left of our manufacturing industries will disappear. Honda, Toyota, Ford, Jaguar, BAE and dare I say it Triumph are only here because of the absence of tariffs when manufacturing in one EU state and selling in the others. If we leave, so will they, and set up shop in another EU states.

[celticdog]

I'm genuinely undecided! I haven't a foccin' clue, I'll make my decision when I think I know enough to make an informed choice.
In my opinion the EU is fundamentally undemocratic. People vote in EU elections and  no-one anywhere in Europe gets what they've voted for.
It's a faceless superstate in the making, nothing more than a tool for the global multi-nationals and international lobby groups, it's not run for the benefit of the citizens. The EU Commission is in effect, the EU government. It meets in secret and conducts its business in secret. It's not what we joined in 1975. Maybe the EU has helped keep the peace for the last forty years?  I don't know. Actually the more I think about it I'd say I'm in the no camp, but I'm open to persuasion . . .

[fazersharp]

The news reports seem to be hanging on to Cameroon securing an agreement but so what if he does - its a pile of nothing from some scraps of nothing that he will trumpet as a great deal for the uk.
I have no doubt that the smaller countries are being "lent" on by the bigger ones to agree. 
Remember the Ireland Lisbon Treaty vote in 2008 - the people said NO but the eu bullied them into voting again untill they said yes

Donald Tusk has warned that a uk out vote may even result in the brake up of the eu. Well if it is so fragile then why the hek would we want to be in it.
He is just scaremongering the smaller countries who gain so much from the eu to agree to camerooon.

I do not trust the intentions of big companies and politicians as to why they are so keen to stay, the British public have been here before and got it right with the Euro -- no we did not have a vote because Blair and Brown although they wanted it knew dam well the British public would vote against joining the cuerency and we were right not to - just like we are right to leave the eu.
 

[mtread]

the British public have been here before and got it right with the Euro -- no we did not have a vote because Blair and Brown although they wanted it knew dam well the British public would vote against joining the cuerency and we were right not to[\quote]
Except of course that the Tories took us into the European Currency. October 1990 when Nigel Lawson took us into the ERM until we spectacularly crashed out in Sept 1992.

[darrsi]

The news reports seem to be hanging on to Cameroon securing an agreement but so what if he does - its a pile of nothing from some scraps of nothing that he will trumpet as a great deal for the uk.
I have no doubt that the smaller countries are being "lent" on by the bigger ones to agree. 
Remember the Ireland Lisbon Treaty vote in 2008 - the people said NO but the eu bullied them into voting again untill they said yes

Donald Tusk has warned that a uk out vote may even result in the brake up of the eu. Well if it is so fragile then why the hek would we want to be in it.
He is just scaremongering the smaller countries who gain so much from the eu to agree to camerooon.

I do not trust the intentions of big companies and politicians as to why they are so keen to stay, the British public have been here before and got it right with the Euro -- no we did not have a vote because Blair and Brown although they wanted it knew dam well the British public would vote against joining the cuerency and we were right not to - just like we are right to leave the eu.

Are you on about the Prime Minister or the African country with an unbelievably shit football team, that's even worse than ours?