Braking performance

[NorthWestern]

After having superbikes etc I had never really been impressed with the brakes on the fazer.  They were not too bad after swapping to rebuilt calipers, got a bit better after fitting braided hoses, "getting there" with new pads etc but to think they have the same setup as an R1 I always felt there was something amiss.  They were also always a bit inconsistent.


Put new discs on at the weekend (off a very low mileage R1) and they are now excellent.  I replaced the disks because they were very worn with a 2mm ridge on the leading edge leaving the discs probably around or below the min thickness.  Rising to work this morning they are very strong and every pull feels exactly the same.

[His Dudeness]

I'd say the improvement came from replacing the worn out discs with good ones not because the r1 discs are better than fazer discs. They're just discs!

[NorthWestern]

Yep the discs are exactly the same, it is simply the fact they are not worn out.  I only replaced them because it would not have passed its next MOT with the old discs on, I wasn't expecting any improvements really so it was a welcome surprise.

[sadlonelygit]

try fitting a 5VY master cylinder, all the brakes you'll ever need then.

[darrsi]

Did you put new pads on with the new discs?

[NorthWestern]

Nah, I put new pads in a few weeks ago so didn't bother

[Gnasher]

The brakes on the earlier Fazers as you say (R1) calpiers are brilliant but they're race calipers and need looking after (seals) and are very sensitive to pads, the other is the semi floating rivets are allowed to seize which give you the same lack of power and characteristics as warped discs.  This is common with MOT failure with the dealer/tester telling you, you've got warped disc and you need new ones... :'(      .


In my experience since early 2000's EBC lack feel, bite and are wooden, don't fit the caliper body properly allowing them to twist/jam, they're also way too abrasive and bugger discs, are many other well known types.  In my opinion SBS or OE are the best, they are a few others but they're harder to get hold of and you pay more.

Look after them fit good pads they will nail your eyeballs to the inside of your visor :eek :eek :lol :lol :lol

[NorthWestern]

I don't like sbs pads, took some out half worn as they were poor. Ebc for me

[Gnasher]

I don't like sbs pads, took some out half worn as they were poor. Ebc for me

You're the only person I've known to ever say SBS are poor, there must have been something wrong with the brake system of the bike you fitted them to is all I can say, but each to their own.   

[NorthWestern]

Nothing wrong with the brake system, put ebc in and all was good.  The sbs were just not as strong and if I recall they were more expensive

[Rob R]

Just fitted some Galfer pads. No too impressed as I had to file the "flashing?" off the back plates to make them fit the calipers properly. They're hardly bedded in yet but seem to be OK without being too aggressive.
Rob

[fazersharp]

Carbon loriane in mine
One question though ------- even though the disk is worn= thinner, the pistons will compensate wont they ?   

[NorthWestern]

That was the main thrust of the original post. 


I didn't expect any change - I used the same pads, in fact I didn't touch the brake system at all, the replacement disks were the same - just MOT'able thickness.  My only reasoning is that maybe the callipers work more efficiently if the pistons aren't stuck right out as they compensate for both pad and disk wear.

[Gnasher]

just MOT'able thickness.

 

What's this then?

Your probably find the reason the old disc weren't performing was due to seized semi floating rivets, by changing the discs for ones which the rivets where not/less, restored the pad contact area and the power.   

My only reasoning is that maybe the callipers work more efficiently if the pistons aren't stuck right out as they compensate for both pad and disk wear.

The length the piston protrudes has no bearing on their performance while in normal use inside the caliper bodies with a pad and disc.  If the pad has no friction surface left, is not square to the disc or held off due to seized rivets/s/warping or the pad is twisted in the caliper body (very common with EBC as they are slightly smaller)  power is greatly reduced.

The thickness of the disc is purely to ensure reduced sensibility to constant heating and cooling which warps them and to ensure longer service life.  The fact these have semi floaters is another way to reduce their thickness, thus unsprung weight, fully floating disc are thinner still.  The brakes fitted to the earlier and later Fazers are eye popping the Fazer is really over braked, but they need carefully looking after to keep that performance.  Brakes are a bit like eyesight they slowly deteriorate and you don't really notice it until you either need them in a hurry or you ride another bike who's brakes are tiptop.


 

[Dead Eye]

I plan on putting some SBS Ceramics on mine; had good results on the 600 I find the Sintered pads to be a bit too harsh and organics just make a mess (though I do like them on the rear)

I have no idea what's in there at the moment but they are getting low

[fazersharp]

How do I maintain my floating rivets

[Gnasher]

How do I maintain my floating rivets

They're semi floating mate, all you need do is clean them with brake cleaner, the disc should move back and forth slightly, also check the spring washer is there and not damaged.


They seize due to accumulated brake dust/road grime obviously once they are and are left too long the damage is done and freeing them will not repair any damage, replacement is the only way.       

[fazersharp]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=18877.msg218769#msg218769 date=1450009981]
How do I maintain my floating rivets

the disc should move back and forth slightly,

[/quote]
Never noticed that before

[nick crisp]

The length the piston protrudes has no bearing on their performance while in normal use inside the caliper bodies with a pad and disc.  If the pad has no friction surface left, is not square to the disc or held off due to seized rivets/s/warping or the pad is twisted in the caliper body (very common with EBC as they are slightly smaller)  power is greatly reduced.

The thickness of the disc is purely to ensure reduced sensibility to constant heating and cooling which warps them and to ensure longer service life.  The fact these have semi floaters is another way to reduce their thickness, thus unsprung weight, fully floating disc are thinner still.  The brakes fitted to the earlier and later Fazers are eye popping the Fazer is really over braked, but they need carefully looking after to keep that performance.  Brakes are a bit like eyesight they slowly deteriorate and you don't really notice it until you either need them in a hurry or you ride another bike who's brakes are tiptop.

If you run a finger across well-worn discs, you often find grooves running around them, which I would guess also means less pad contact area and so less braking efficiency too?

[darrsi]

[quote author=Gnasher link=topic=18877.msg218764#msg218764 date=1450008430]

The length the piston protrudes has no bearing on their performance while in normal use inside the caliper bodies with a pad and disc.  If the pad has no friction surface left, is not square to the disc or held off due to seized rivets/s/warping or the pad is twisted in the caliper body (very common with EBC as they are slightly smaller)  power is greatly reduced.

The thickness of the disc is purely to ensure reduced sensibility to constant heating and cooling which warps them and to ensure longer service life.  The fact these have semi floaters is another way to reduce their thickness, thus unsprung weight, fully floating disc are thinner still.  The brakes fitted to the earlier and later Fazers are eye popping the Fazer is really over braked, but they need carefully looking after to keep that performance.  Brakes are a bit like eyesight they slowly deteriorate and you don't really notice it until you either need them in a hurry or you ride another bike who's brakes are tiptop.

If you run a finger across well-worn discs, you often find grooves running around them, which I would guess also means less pad contact area and so less braking efficiency too?
[/quote]


The pads will wear into the grooves, so shouldn't really make much difference.