Topical question, in the UK news.

[darrsi]

Don't believe for one second that these people won't attempt to terrorise us again, whether we move in or not.
And how can you tell if these civilians are not indeed the terrorists that were being aimed at in the first place?

[BBROWN1664]

[smg id=2706]

Crap editing, but you get the idea

[bri h]

[smg id=2706]

Crap editing, but you get the idea

that's the fella haha. Course once he's chased them out of Syria they will start up somewhere else. You can't bomb an idea (as someone cleverer than me said).

[esetest]

On the bright side no point worrying about saving for our old age , we'll be fucking lucky , might as well spend it now while there are still shops to spend in .

[bri h]

On the bright side no point worrying about saving for our old age , we'll be fucking lucky , might as well spend it now while there are still shops to spend in .

so we can all buy new bikes as long as they are not naked :lol

[Robbie8666]

[quote author=Robbie8666 link=topic=18850.msg217760#msg217760 date=1449057117]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=18850.msg217754#msg217754 date=1449053312]
I kind of liked the suggestion of training up Syrian immigrants and sending them back over to fight for their own country!

errm like we did with the Taliban in Afghanistan during the war against Russia?
my vote is for neither, as a retired serviceman that has served in operations I can't see any advantage of sending in air strikes and sending in ground troops will end in more needless casualties of our forces, which are stretched enough!

but only my opinion!
[/quote]


Errr nope. This time we send one out with each patrol and stick them right at the front..........to check for any IED's.


:lurk
[/quote]

yeah I would go along with that idea or do a mad max and tie them to the front of our jackals!
the only problem is they would be seen as martyrs so would happily blow themselves up!
personally I think maybe we should all sit round a table and talk about it over a hubba bubba pipe  :lol  (then slot them!)

[mr self destruct]

Don't believe for one second that these people won't attempt to terrorise us again, whether we move in or not.
And how can you tell if these civilians are not indeed the terrorists that were being aimed at in the first place?

This is why IMO the best course of action is no action. If we go in we'll be kicking a hornets nest.
I believe bombing any country only serves to make the population more inclined to hate those doing the bombing and swell the ranks of those we're supposed to be defeating.
Also, their tactics are small scale acts of terrorism. Killing a few people, and putting the fear of god into thousands more, tying up billions of pounds in investigations, surveillance and military action. That's where the real damage is done, rather than the lost lives of the victims.
What the terrorists want is for us to give in to fear, to change the way we live because of that fear.
So how do we fight the terrorists? We as the public don't. We let our secret services carry on doing their jobs, let the counter-terrorism units do their work, and we carry on with our lives as normal.
If we close our borders to one and all, they've won.
If we refuse to use the London Underground, they've won.
If we get uncomfortable when a foreign-looking person sits next to us on a bus, they've won.
If one young British Muslim lad gets so pissed off with constantly being viewed with suspicion that he starts to hate the very country he was born in, they've won.


So let's take that away from them. Let's not fear or hate them, but show complete indifference, raise a middle finger to them and say "Fuck you, we're living how we want to live and you're not gonna change a fucking thing."


Because, to put the albeit tragic deaths of all terrorists' victims into context, very very few lives are lost due to terrorism.


According to these statistics:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicde...y-chart-10
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safet...dex_en.htm
There have been less than 500 terrorism related deaths in western Europe in the last 14 years.
There have been 552400 road traffic deaths in Europe in the same period. So over 1000 times more people die in traffic accidents than due to terrorism.


Even then, compare that with this:
http://www.escardio.org/static_file/Esca...s-2012.pdf
1.9 million deaths per year, so 26.6 million in the same period, of cardiovascular disease.


And which of these causes of death are we worried about most? Muslims.


If we're going to change the way we live, let's start eating better and looking where we're fucking driving before we kick out Johnny Foreigner.

[bri h]

Yep were back to who profits out of this and i believe its the same one percent thats profits out of selling shit food cars and bombs.

[lew600fazer]

I think if we get more involved in the conflict in Syria, it will be a matter of time that either an RAF plane or a Russian plane is taken out off the air by one or the others air force. I would not put it past the yanks to pull the trigger on either and blame the other(FRIENDLY FIRE). A real fear here is WW3 and ISIS has achieved it's objectives. Keep out of it until ISIS hits the UK, then go and just Nuke the fecking whole middle east.(joking of course) :lol :evil

Cameron is itching for a fight , he has never forgiven Parliament over the snub he suffered last year over the Syrian conflict.

[bri h]

I think if we get more involved in the conflict in Syria, it will be a matter of time that either an RAF plane or a Russian plane is taken out off the air by one or the others air force. I would not put it past the yanks to pull the trigger on either and blame the other(FRIENDLY FIRE). A real fear here is WW3 and ISIS has achieved it's objectives. Keep out of it until ISIS hits the UK, then go and just Nuke the fecking whole middle east.(joking of course) :lol :evil

Cameron is itching for a fight , he has never forgiven Parliament over the snub he suffered last year over the Syrian conflict.

trouble is last time he wanted to bomb Assad and now he wants to bomb the people fighting Assad. (Assad is not very nice dont invite him round for tea with your mum)

[noggythenog]

I think we had our chance and we blew it........russia has stepped up to the plate since then and fair play to russia for that...they have the resources and the numbers to do so............pointless us wanting to jump in now to save face.


I say the middle east sorts it out themselves and if that means them all destroying each other then so be it but the likes of saudi will quite happily relax while other powers do all the dirty work for them.


I say forget iraq & forget syria and if assad ends up staying after being rescued by russia then we have to just lump it.......russia will be more powerful and more cocky but in the meantime before all that we can at least build our forces back up to where they should be so that we can at least defend ourselves against future aggressors whether that be russia, or isis because at the moment that is one of the main reasons we are so reliant on assistance from the USA and rightly are obliged to assist them in return by showing willing or solidarity or whatever they call it.


Put it this way theres quite a land mass between us and syria.......soon enough all of those countries will be asking the uk for assistance...but until then im sorry for being jack but let them deal with it.

[darrsi]

I think we had our chance and we blew it........russia has stepped up to the plate since then and fair play to russia for that...they have the resources and the numbers to do so............pointless us wanting to jump in now to save face.


I say the middle east sorts it out themselves and if that means them all destroying each other then so be it but the likes of saudi will quite happily relax while other powers do all the dirty work for them.


I say forget iraq & forget syria and if assad ends up staying after being rescued by russia then we have to just lump it.......russia will be more powerful and more cocky but in the meantime before all that we can at least build our forces back up to where they should be so that we can at least defend ourselves against future aggressors whether that be russia, or isis because at the moment that is one of the main reasons we are so reliant on assistance from the USA and rightly are obliged to assist them in return by showing willing or solidarity or whatever they call it.


Put it this way theres quite a land mass between us and syria.......soon enough all of those countries will be asking the uk for assistance...but until then im sorry for being jack but let them deal with it.

There is quite a land mass between us and Syria, ask any Syrian who's just landed here how their journey was!
And the thing is, we don't have a fecking clue if they are part of ISIS or not?
Call me pessimistic, but I prefer the "prevention is better than cure" method so would not be inviting any of them to stay over here.

[noggythenog]

[quote author=noggythenog link=topic=18850.msg217794#msg217794 date=1449073389]
I think we had our chance and we blew it........russia has stepped up to the plate since then and fair play to russia for that...they have the resources and the numbers to do so............pointless us wanting to jump in now to save face.


I say the middle east sorts it out themselves and if that means them all destroying each other then so be it but the likes of saudi will quite happily relax while other powers do all the dirty work for them.


I say forget iraq & forget syria and if assad ends up staying after being rescued by russia then we have to just lump it.......russia will be more powerful and more cocky but in the meantime before all that we can at least build our forces back up to where they should be so that we can at least defend ourselves against future aggressors whether that be russia, or isis because at the moment that is one of the main reasons we are so reliant on assistance from the USA and rightly are obliged to assist them in return by showing willing or solidarity or whatever they call it.


Put it this way theres quite a land mass between us and syria.......soon enough all of those countries will be asking the uk for assistance...but until then im sorry for being jack but let them deal with it.

There is quite a land mass between us and Syria, ask any Syrian who's just landed here how their journey was!
And the thing is, we don't have a fecking clue if they are part of ISIS or not?
Call me pessimistic, but I prefer the "prevention is better than cure" method so would not be inviting any of them to stay over here.
[/quote]


I think im looking at it in the context of conventional war Darrssi so while i dont deny your point about terrorists....there isnt a land army here in the UK, nor will there be and if we do indeed strengthen our defence, intelligence, police resources......& most importantly policies then we will root them out from within.....not as we are doing now but a totally different approach........bombing syria and and sending in troops is conventional, will increase hatred towards us and in the end we are but a ripple in the ocean because our forces have been dry humped for years now.......we are not a big influence......we are small coal.

[bri h]

Ive been watching some of the arguments for and against in the house of commons and they both have merrits even though the only one that i can understand thats for bombing is the show solidarity with the French. As bad as what happened in paris is i cant think of too many times that the French have shown solidarity with us in fact i remember a story my granddad told about a french officer showing a german officer what was what on a map at Dunkirk.The next day they poured diesel oil on the sea and set fire to it to burn the british and commonwealth troop trying to get to the rescue boats. The other thing thats peeing me off is that for something so important there seemed to be a lot more mp there to vote on their 10% pay rise than to hear all the arguments.The fact is without ground troops its a waste of lives.

[esetest]

[quote author=esetest link=topic=18850.msg217783#msg217783 date=1449065514]
On the bright side no point worrying about saving for our old age , we'll be fucking lucky , might as well spend it now while there are still shops to spend in .

so we can all buy new bikes as long as they are not naked :lol
[/quote]So what are you treating yourself to .

[bri h]

[quote author=bri h link=topic=18850.msg217784#msg217784 date=1449066161]
[quote author=esetest link=topic=18850.msg217783#msg217783 date=1449065514]
On the bright side no point worrying about saving for our old age , we'll be fucking lucky , might as well spend it now while there are still shops to spend in .

so we can all buy new bikes as long as they are not naked :lol
[/quote]So what are you treating yourself to .
[/quote]im hoping isis dont take over the country before they put a half fairing on the mt10

[Val]

Yes and we need ground troops as well. I am not happy about military industrial complex myself, BUT how exactly do you harm IS if not bombs what? Send them flowers? And doing nothing is actually helping them so there is not much of a choice here.

Bear in mind the question and the voting today is for something that already is hapening. UK bombs IS in Iraq  already, how is that diffrent by bombing IS in Syria  :pokefun

Listening to the radio it appears a lot fo MPs didn't now that, what can I say here...

im hoping isis dont take over the country before they put a half fairing on the mt10

:agree Hence the yes vote 

[Slaninar]

Yes and we need ground troops as well. I am not happy about military industrial complex myself, BUT how exactly do you harm IS if not bombs what? Send them flowers? And doing nothing is actually helping them so there is not much of a choice here.

Bear in mind the question and the voting today is for something that already is hapening. UK bombs IS in Iraq  already, how is that diffrent by bombing IS in Syria  :pokefun

Listening to the radio it appears a lot fo MPs didn't now that, what can I say here...

[quote author=bri h link=topic=18850.msg217799#msg217799 date=1449076943]
im hoping isis dont take over the country before they put a half fairing on the mt10

:agree Hence the yes vote 
[/quote]


Attack - bomb other country that hasn't attacked you. Germany did that some 50 years ago. With some success - at first at least.

[bri h]

We've been bombing them for 15 years and the situation is worse than ever.  Hense the no vote. They have to go but bombs aren't the answer.

[slappy]

Don`t drop bombs on them, drop bacon.