Quote:The problem with blaming racism is there doesn't seem to be any Hindus or Sikhs blowing themselves up on busses.I saw an Imam on tv years ago after 9 11 saying not all Muslims were terrorists but all terrorists were Muslim. Sad as it is he has a point. [img alt= ]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/sad.gif[/img]
An Imam stated that on TV. Who? Can you link to an article or clip? I'd love to see that! :lol
So ETA, the IRA, UDA, Farc, Lord's Resistance Army, The Stern Gangs etc etc are all Muslim. That's news to me.
And what about terrorism;
Was 'shock and awe' not an act of terror. Was the invasion of Iraq not an act of international terrorism. And why is it again that IS are crawling all over Iraq?
Iraq - total documented dead since invasion - 224,000 and counting.
"We don't do body counts" - General Tommy Franks. Well thank fuck somebody is Tommy you stupid ignorant murderous fuck!
What about Afghanistan and Libya (now also crawling with IS)
So tell me - who is terrorist.
Oh you want some Hindu and Sikh terror - no problem;
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...ism-threat
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ju...our-killed
So to state that all terrorists are Muslim, well either that's shear ignorance or outrageous racism. You tell me!
Meanwhile talking of Scottish Independence;
Recent research has shown that the war in Iraq is one of the most frequently mentioned reasons for people in Scotland turning their backs on The Labour Party.
Labour, the Conservatives and The Lid Dems have one MP each in Scotland.
:z
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.
(15-11-15, 08:12 PM)VNA link Wrote: [size=1em]And what about terrorism;
[/size]
[size=1em]Was 'shock and awe' not an act of terror. [/size]
[size=1em]Technically, no. Terrorism by definition is not selective of it's target. Before the campaign of shock and awe, Saddam was warned about what would happen, and could predict where the coalition would strike, i.e. at edifices of his regime. The whole point of terrorism is no one knows when or where it will strike, and it is non-discriminatory.[/size]
[size=1em]An illustration:[/size]
[size=1em]A lecturer on terrorism says to his students: "Anyone wearing jeans to any more lectures will be shot", pretending he has a gun in his pocket. Asked how they would react to this, the students said they wouldn't wear jeans to lectures again. They have a choice, and know what not to do to avoid being shot. This is intimidation; violence, or the threat thereof to make people conform to a certain pattern of behaviour. This is equivalent to "shock and awe".[/size]
The lecturer then picked out one student, pointed the pretend gun at him and said, "I've just shot you, you're dead." How would the students react to avoid the same thing happening to them? Was it the colour of his shoes? Was it where he sat in the lecture hall? Maybe it was his haircut? Fact is, they couldn't know. There was no way they could amend their behaviour to ensure they weren't next. The violence was totally arbitrary. It could involve innocents and 'guilty' alike. This is terrorism.
(15-11-15, 08:36 PM)VNA link Wrote: Meanwhile talking of Scottish Independence;
Recent research has shown that the war in Iraq is one of the most frequently mentioned reasons for people in Scotland turning their backs on The Labour Party.
And you think this only applies to the Scots?
You have a valid point about the terrorist attacks in India VNA and I dearly wish I could validate the Imams statement from four years ago but I know what I saw and heard just as I know what I saw and heard about France Lebanon and kenya over the weekend. You can state all the figures you want but your deluded if you dont accepted the threat that IS poses in tye name of Islam We all know that Iraq is all about America taking 80% of the oil and none of us think these drones killing innocent people is good but if you look at your own figures a large proportion of the murders in Iraq are executions. Most of us don't think thats a good idea either.
a bird in the hand poops on the wrist
(15-11-15, 09:08 PM)bri h link Wrote: You have a valid point about the terrorist attacks in India VNA and I dearly wish I could validate the Imams statement from four years ago but I know what I saw and heard just as I know what I saw and heard about France Lebanon and kenya over the weekend. You can state all the figures you want but your deluded if you dont accepted the threat that IS poses in tye name of Islam We all know that Iraq is all about America taking 80% of the oil and none of us think these drones killing innocent people is good but if you look at your own figures a large proportion of the murders in Iraq are executions. Most of us don't think thats a good idea either.
I shouldn't bother, Bri. VNA is of the same mind as IS. He thinks we all need to atone for the West's actions and policy in the Middle East etc, whether we personally facilitated it or not. Same as he thinks because a labour government didn't represent his views, Scotland should leave the Union. The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there. Maybe THIS is terrorism?
Bless him he does seem to have the blinkers on Nick but he is a foccer so I love him really :lol
a bird in the hand poops on the wrist
15-11-15, 10:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 15-11-15, 10:05 PM by fazersharp.)
The thing that erks me about the scottish referendum is that its only the scottish who were having a say when it should of been the whole country's choice. the rest of the country should of been asked do you want the scotts to stay.
I would of voted for them to go if only make the weather forecast half as long
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.
(15-11-15, 09:51 PM)bri h link Wrote: Bless him he does seem to have the blinkers on Nick but he is a foccer so I love him really :lol
Of course. VNA, I'd buy you a pint down the pub any day mate. Just so long as you promise not to talk about politics, and I promise I won't talk about military history :lol
Quote:[size=1em]Technically, no. Terrorism by definition is not selective of it's target. Before the campaign of shock and awe, Saddam was warned about what would happen, and could predict where the coalition would strike, i.e. at edifices of his regime. The whole point of terrorism is no one knows when or where it will strike, and it is non-discriminatory.
An illustration:
A lecturer on terrorism says to his students: "Anyone wearing jeans to any more lectures will be shot", pretending he has a gun in his pocket. Asked how they would react to this, the students said they wouldn't wear jeans to lectures again. They have a choice, and know what not to do to avoid being shot. This is intimidation; violence, or the threat thereof to make people conform to a certain pattern of behaviour. This is equivalent to "shock and awe".
The lecturer then picked out one student, pointed the pretend gun at him and said, "I've just shot you, you're dead." How would the students react to avoid the same thing happening to them? Was it the colour of his shoes? Was it where he sat in the lecture hall? Maybe it was his haircut? Fact is, they couldn't know. There was no way they could amend their behaviour to ensure they weren't next. The violence was totally arbitrary. It could involve innocents and 'guilty' alike. This is terrorism.[/size]
[size=1em]
Is this an Israeli definition of terrorism perhaps?
Let me give you the dictionary definition;
[/size] The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorism
The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini.../terrorism
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism
So it is far from unreasonable to describe 'Shock and Awe' and the Iraq war as acts of terrorism.
And again, why do we now have IS?
Quote:The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there.
But England voted for a Tory government. England has the government it deserves.
Scotland has a government imposed on it by English voters. We have only one Tory MP.
I just want what you have have - and that's the government that Scotland deserves.
Quote:Of course. VNA, I'd buy you a pint down the pub any day mate. Just so long as you promise not to talk about politics, and I promise I won't talk about military history [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img]
That sounds perfectly reasonable. I'd be happy to go a few rounds.
Quote:Now, what the foc am I doing in a political thread?! *exits stage left* [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img]
I thought you'd dropped this.
Just to be clear, I don't think I've ever, and I don't intend ever to, start a political discussion here.
It's a bike forum for focs sake.
There are plenty of other forums out there for folks to argue politics online, and/or express their extreme or racist views.
(15-11-15, 10:11 PM)VNA link Wrote: Quote:The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there.
But England voted for a Tory government. England has the government it deserves.
Scotland has a government imposed on it by English voters. We have only one Tory MP.
I just want what you have have - and that's the government that Scotland deserves.
I didn't vote Tory. Am I being punished with the government I deserve?
Quote:[size=1em]Is this an Israeli definition of terrorism perhaps?[/size]
No, the definition of terrorism I gave comes from a study by Rosemary H. T. O'Kane, Professor of Comparative Political Theory, School of Politics, International Relations and Philosophy, (SPIRE) UK.
Quote:[size=1em]why do we now have IS?[/size]
Y[size=1em]es, we have provoked muslim populations until we now have IS. And I agree, we ought to be changing our policies towards these regions. But why are you bleating about it here on a bike forum? Are members of FOC-U responsible for this? And aren't you just as responsible, by association with the government of the UK, though as me, you didn't vote for them and now wish to wash your hands of the Union? But rest assured, nothing we do now can change the direction of Islamic State:[/size]
[size=1em] http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...ts/384980/
You will remain a target as much as the rest of us. Oh well, that's terrorism for you.[/size]
I see you have beaten me to this - I'm gonna post it anyway :lol
P.S. have you read the discussion that follows the Oxford Dictionary definition? Interesting stuff. Apparently, dictionary definitions can change.
Yours sincerely,
A Rabid Rascist.
(15-11-15, 10:11 PM)VNA link Wrote: Quote:The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there.
But England voted for a Tory government. England has the government it deserves.
Scotland has a government imposed on it by English voters. We have only one Tory MP.
I just want what you have have - and that's the government that Scotland deserves.
But surely all that happens is you go around in circles? We say you had an independence vote, you say it was rigged in the Unions favour, we say it wasn't but you have an assembly and England doesn't and is fed-up with the West Lothian issue etc etc ad nauseum.
I bet Jihadi John lost a lot of sleep on this issue.
Nice to see the French giving a little pay back this morning , go for it not really concerned how many they take out feck um !!!!
MT-09 Tracer for those who no longer can handle a BIG boy Fazer
[color=rgb(64, 64, 64)][/color][size=1rem]Al-Mohammad is the name on a Syrian passport found with the remains of one of the attackers, though the man's identity has not yet been verified. What has been confirmed is that his fingerprints match those taken by the Greek authorities after he arrived with migrants on the island of Leros in October 2015.[/size][color=rgb(64, 64, 64)][/size][/color][/size][size=1rem]The above is from the BBC news website, how many more like him are now in Europe? If he arrived in October looks to me like he has come to Europe for the sole purpose to carry out the atrocity in Paris.[/size]
(16-11-15, 02:22 PM)slappy link Wrote: [color=rgb(64, 64, 64)][/color][size=1rem]Al-Mohammad is the name on a Syrian passport found with the remains of one of the attackers, though the man's identity has not yet been verified. What has been confirmed is that his fingerprints match those taken by the Greek authorities after he arrived with migrants on the island of Leros in October 2015.[/size][size=1rem]The above is from the BBC news website, how many more like him are now in Europe? If he arrived in October looks to me like he has come to Europe for the sole purpose to carry out the atrocity in Paris.[/size]
It is hardly surprising that IS, Al Qaeda or whoever would take this "refugee crisis" as an opportunity to slip a few nasties into Europe. I'm sure there'll be more to come. Thank you Germany for being so obliging as to invite them all in. Had second thoughts now it's too late have you, Ms. Merkel?
(16-11-15, 02:58 PM)Hedgetrimmer link Wrote: [quote author=slappy link=topic=18723.msg216248#msg216248 date=1447680153]
[size=1rem]Al-Mohammad is the name on a Syrian passport found with the remains of one of the attackers, though the man's identity has not yet been verified. What has been confirmed is that his fingerprints match those taken by the Greek authorities after he arrived with migrants on the island of Leros in October 2015.[/size][size=1rem]The above is from the BBC news website, how many more like him are now in Europe? If he arrived in October looks to me like he has come to Europe for the sole purpose to carry out the atrocity in Paris.[/size]
It is hardly surprising that IS, Al Qaeda or whoever would take this "refugee crisis" as an opportunity to slip a few nasties into Europe. I'm sure there'll be more to come. Thank you Germany for being so obliging as to invite them all in. Had second thoughts now it's too late have you, Ms. Merkel?
[/quote]
Yeah in fact lets send them all to Germany as they were so obliging in the first place.
Red Heads - Slowly taking over the world!!!
Quote:No, the definition of terrorism I gave comes from a study by Rosemary H. T. O'Kane, Professor of Comparative Political Theory, School of Politics, International Relations and Philosophy, (SPIRE) UK.
And I think it should remain as Ms O'Kane's interpretation. I'll stick to the dictionary.
The reason I mentioned Israel is becuase Ms O'Kane's illustration is very similar to Israel's assertions of how reasonable they are. For example in their last invasion of Gaza, they would leaflet a civilian area giving the residents 12 or 24hrs to pack up and leave before they bombed the area beyond recognition. When as a result of their bombing they were accused of acting as or acts of terrorism, they said 'what terrorist would drop leaflets asking the people to move to safety - how could we be more reasonable.
But, as an innocent civilian, to be given 12 hrs to get out of your home or die as it is raised to the ground, is an act of terror. It is terrorism.
Quote:P.S. have you read the discussion that follows the Oxford Dictionary definition? Interesting stuff. Apparently, dictionary definitions can change.
I took the first definitions that came up in my search. The Oxford one is interesting and I wondered if you would pick up on it. I do like the fact that the online Oxford allows you to comment on their content! And the first comment is absolutely spot on.
Quote:You will remain a target as much as the rest of us. Oh well, that's terrorism for you.
Indeed,and that I am a target just as much as anybody else is not going to change my views.
Oh I might have forgotten to mention that the Iraq Body Count is documented deaths. Some estimate the true figure to be 3 or 4 times or more as many.
And there is more to document - genocide;
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...35136.html
Robert Fisk: 'We remain blindfolded about Isis' says the man who should know;Brian Keenan was held by Shia Muslims loyal to Hezbollah in Lebanon;
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/robe...35426.html
I'm sure many here will remember the name Brian Keenan.
Why has this thread evolved into Brian Keenan, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
MT-09 Tracer for those who no longer can handle a BIG boy Fazer
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