New computer help

[fazersharp]

So I got a little ahead of myself with the office 2010 help request as I also first need a desktop, thanks to all how helped on that one.

Its what I call the family computer as I have my own pc for work that I dont let them touch and foc up, the current family one that I am looking to replace is an old HP D530 pentium 4  2.8 Ghz with 3gb ram
It is used for general surfing email and office use with the odd photo editing.
I am looking at this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Compaq-8100...SwpDdVbHSj
as it is exactly the same size as the old one.
Whats the focer font of knowledge  Should I be looking at something else (i would prefer to keep the sff format )
The seller also sells via their own site and makes a big play on the fact they are an authorised microsoft refurb seller (sounds good to me ) and offer 12 months warranty
Would an i3 2nd gen be better than an i5 1st gen

[NotAnotherHill]

We have this...

http://www.cclonline.com/product/154683/...ALP-SBUD3/

My teenage boys use their gaming computers but this one is all you need and has Windows 10 Home operating system. No screen, keyboard, mouse etc.

[NotAnotherHill]

It's £235 with Windows 10 and £159 without an operating system.

[fazersharp]

Thanks will look into it but i for a few reasons I need win 7 and a unit that that lays flat so I can stand the monitor on it

[Val]

So I got a little ahead of myself with the office 2010 help request as I also first need a desktop, thanks to all how helped on that one.

Its what I call the family computer as I have my own pc for work that I dont let them touch and foc up, the current family one that I am looking to replace is an old HP D530 pentium 4  2.8 Ghz with 3gb ram
It is used for general surfing email and office use with the odd photo editing.
I am looking at this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Compaq-8100...SwpDdVbHSj
as it is exactly the same size as the old one.
Whats the focer font of knowledge  Should I be looking at something else (i would prefer to keep the sff format )
The seller also sells via their own site and makes a big play on the fact they are an authorised microsoft refurb seller (sounds good to me ) and offer 12 months warranty
Would an i3 2nd gen be better than an i5 1st gen

How fast is your computer depends on the memory. Photo editing on Windows 7 with less than 8Gb will be painfully slow. I'd recommend at least 16Gb RAM. In order to be able to use more than 4gb memory you need processor with 64 bit bus computer.

The above has miserly 4Gb memory. HP is a good brand. The SFF memroy is very expensive. The one above chosen by you support 16Gb memory in 4 memory banks. One 4Gb SFF cost £25. In order to get decent desktop you with say 16Gb memory you need to pay £75 for memory upgrade only.

Better find a desktop with more memory. Unfortunately most good perfromance desktops are not SFF.

Search ebay for "16GB":

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/PC-Desktops-Al...=1&_sop=15

I found this HP for £180:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Barebones-Twin...SwDNdVwcrH

And I would buy this server for this kind of money £170, it will blow the socks off any SFF desktop  :lol

HP DL380 G5 2x Quad Core 2.66Ghz 16GB RAM DUAL PSU RAID

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-DL380-G5-2x...W6bdTwuRQw

[BBROWN1664]

Unless you are going with the 64-bit version of Windows 7, don't bother wasting money on any more than 4GB of RAM as the OS wont even see it.

The 8100 is a good little PC.

[fazersharp]

Thanks chaps ---- only leads to more questions im afraid
Whats a server and can I use it just the same as a pc also it looks like it will be noisy-big air grill on the front and only has 2 usb on the back and looks scary - dont think it will be one of those.

You say the sff ram is more expensive so I had a little look which only leads to more questions as I dont know what it takes - it just says ddr3 and there is 1 stick of 4gb in there now

I was thinking if I was to go with the 8100 to upgrade the HD for an ssd (costs £50 ) 128gb and will come fitted what kind of speed difference do you think it would make if I did that would it be say equivalent to 4 or 8 G ram  or would I be better leaving the HD as is and spending the money on ram
I am thinking I could always upgrade the ram whenever if I thought we need some extra

The pc its replacing is an hp sff and has done served us well despite the kids doing their best to foc it up  so that is why I am attracted to another the same also space wise it suits us to sit the monitor on it.

Also a little perspective on what we have now compared to the 8100 (the 8100 will be 64bit win 7 ) 
10 year old
Its 3gb ddr pc2700 166MHz xp pro (not sure how much ram is available)
P4 2.4GHz 
And when I say a bit of photo editing we dont have any issues on that front with the pc we have now although when we change im sure we will see that we did have issues.

[BBROWN1664]

I have just looked at the fleebay link you put up there. I didn't realise it was a refurbished machine you were looking at.

Having looked at my HP quickspecs too, I have realised that the 8100 was discontinued by HP in June 2012 so that machine will be somewhere between 3.5 and 6 years old before you get it. If that's OK with you then fine but I would not look to get something like that personally. Alternatively, get the later model ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Compaq-Elit...Swo0JWJ3aO )

If you do decide that the age is not a problem, upgrade the RAM to 8GB or 16GB (they use DDR3 SDRAM modules and they wont take any more than 4 of the 4GB ones) and the HDD to an SSD and you will have a PC that does go very well and will handle the upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 with ease.

[Val]

It will be cheaper to get a PC with more memory then to upgrade it later.

Note the actual speed and performance depend on the CPU, the memory, but also on the graphics card as well, means  if you get the latest CPU with even more memory and you have integrated graphics card your PC will be slowwer then one with older CPU but with fast dedicated graphics card.

Frankly for the home use purposes any will do. I would go for one which at least has 8Gb memory already.

I have looked at HP 8100 you have selected and it does not have wifi and bluetooth also it has integrated graphics card - not good home choice IMO.

You need wifi to connect it to your internet wifi router otherwise you need some cables, not funny 

Alternatively, get the later model ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Compaq-Elit...Swo0JWJ3aO )

No offence but IMO that is no good for home missing wifi, they will give you usb wifi dongle - seriously in 21st century using wifi dongles?

[BBROWN1664]

WiFI on a desktop is not always needed if your router is nearby.

Integrated graphics can be disabled if you want a separate graphics card

[fazersharp]

Thanks again
Yes am looking at refurb - thats waht my 10 year old one was too
More questions - sorry
Ram -- my old system xp you had to put in matched pairs, am I correct in thinking that I dont have to do that now and so I could keep the 1 4gb stick and then add 2x4gb so using 3 of the 4 slots and getting a total of 12gb

Also the 8300 the only difference I can see is it has an i3 3rd gen and the 8100 has an i5 1st gen
The link that you gave - they are even cheeper but will need to do a bit of due diligence as to the seller. I was just sold a little bit on the more expensive one (8100) as the are an authorized microsoft refurb seller (convinced me ) also that one comes with a 12 month warranty for what its worth !

[Val]

WiFI on a desktop is not always needed if your router is nearby.

Integrated graphics can be disabled if you want a separate graphics card

I agree. But going upgrade route you basically are assembling new PC. Probably better go to scan.co.uk buy components and do that from scratch - new PC made by you exactly as you want it 

I have looked and ebay and frankly what I have seen I do not like.

[fazersharp]

I dont need wifi as when sharp hall was extensively extended  :lol I took the opportunity to fit cables

Looking at a seperate grapics card I can get one for £25 nvidia

Quick look at scan = nothing under £250

Just found this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Compaq-8100...542322087c

Has 6gb and a seperate graphics card but is an i3 3.06GHz as opposed to the other one i5 3.2 GHz with 4 gb ram and onboard
Which one would be better

[celticdog]

Tis all about cash I'm AFRAID! How long did you get out of the last PC and how long do you want out of the new one?
Why not buck the trend and go for an Apple?  Daddy or Chips?

[fazersharp]

Well there you are you see we have had the hp D530 for at least 8 years and that was also a refurb one and cost under £100

Think I have found myself one
hp 8100 win7 pro 64bit
8gb ram
i3 3.06GHz
1 TB HD
NVIDIA Quadro NVS290 256MB ---------- yes not masive but better than onboard ???? is it
All for £166 from an autorized microsoft refurb seller

[Val]

Well there you are you see we have had the hp D530 for at least 8 years and that was also a refurb one and cost under £100

Think I have found myself one
hp 8100 win7 pro 64bit
8gb ram
i3 3.06GHz
1 TB HD
NVIDIA Quadro NVS290 256MB ---------- yes not masive but better than onboard ???? is it
All for £166 from an autorized microsoft refurb seller

sounds like a good bargain to me  :thumbup

[Dead Eye]

I love PC's and consider myself an enthusiast, which is why my machine is one of my pride and joys (I've spent more on it than any of my cars and bikes...)

The "speed" of a computer depends entirely on what you are doing and on many many factors which can make explaining a tad complicated.


The CPU / Processor: Great for computationally demanding tasks

RAM / Memory: Stores information that can be accessed very quickly. In other words, great for working on large documents, images, videos or other intense programs. A quick analogy would be to consider your registration plate of your bike; if it is in memory and someone asks you, you can instantly tell them. Otherwise, you've got to go look for the damn thing (in this case, your computer goes and fetches it from your Hard Drive for example). As for matching the "sticks"; it is recommended but not required. Matching pairs will work faster together, but the system will always run as fast as the SLOWEST stick (this is not the same as capacity). Should you be concerned? For a home PC, probably not. For gaming, more so.

Graphics Cards: A more specialised computational calculator. Functions on very similar principles to a CPU, but is more refined to doing fewer tasks, but very well. In this case, calculating and displaying graphics / images / videos. Don't be tempted to be fooled by the "GB" of Graphics Cards - this isn't always a good marker especially when comparing dedicated to onboard.


Intel's current line-up consists of the "Core Series" which are grouped as i3, i5 and i7. Simple enough. After that you get a set of 3 or 4 numbers and a final letter. If it is 3 numbers, it is a first generation chip from before 2010. If it's 4 numbers then the first is the series e.g. a Core i7 2700K is a 2nd generation processor from around 2011. The higher that latter 3 numbers, the better it is (typically). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In...processors


There is much more to it than this, but these are vague guidelines. What would I recommend? A simple i3 should be man enough; it's what I use at work. 16GB of memory? I can't see why you would need it personally, 4GB is probably doable for the here and now, but 8GB would be better.

This is the site I use when making comparisons between various CPU's and Graphics Cards ( http://www.cpubenchmark.net/ ). It gives a benchmark score so that you can compare


And for the nerds who may care, here are the technical specs of my home PC;

Intel Core i7-4770K
ASUS Z87-WS
SoundBlaster 3DRecon PCIe SoundCard
Corsair Dominator 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 2400Mhz
2x nVidia GeForce GTX 760 in SLi
Twin Loop Water Cooling for CPU and GPU's
3x Samsung 840 256GB SSDs
3x Samsung F1 Spinforce 1TB HDDs
2x Samsung F3 Spinforce 1.5TB HDDs
CoolerMaster HAF 932 Case
CoolerMaster 1000W Silent Pro Gold Power Supply
Logitech G910 Orion Spark Keyboard
Logitech G500 Mouse
Acer GD245HQ 24" 3D Ready Monitor
BenQ 24" Monitor
Berylium Xtensions 5.1 Surround Sound

[smg id=2688 type=preview caption="Phoenix"]

[fazersharp]

The one above that I am buying is i3 540 with 8gb ram that I am asking them if I can upgrade to 12gb but not sure if I can just add 4gb or if it already has all 4 slots occupied (2gb in each)
when you say

Matching pairs will work faster together, but the system will always run as fast as the SLOWEST stick

Not sure I get you

[fazersharp]

Found this
Memory upgrades are accomplished by adding single or multiple DIMMs of the same or varied sizes. This chart does not represent all
possible memory configurations. The HP Compaq 8100 Elite Series PCsupports non-ECC DDR3 PC3-10600 (1333 MHz) and PC3-8500
(1066 MHz) memory
Are you refering to the "slowest" being this (1066 MHz)


Also found this useful http://www.cpu-world.com/Releases/Deskto...ml#January says 2010

[BBROWN1664]

The one you have provided the spec for above is the i3-540 model.

The maximum sized DIMM this will support if 4GB. There are 4 slots and you only need to fill them one at a time.
If it is delivered with 8GB RAM, that will do you for a good while so you don't need to worry about upgrading it. Worst case is it will have 4x2GB DIMMS fitted. To upgrade this you would need to replace one or more of the DIMMS.
As mentioned by you, the HP Compaq 8100 Elite Series PC supports non-ECC DDR3 PC3-10600 (1333 MHz) and PC3-8500
(1066 MHz) memory.