As for figuring out where I am on a map, well I cheat these days, I use a Satmap loaded with full UK 1:50000 mapping. I still carry the paper map and a compass. The Satmap tells me where I am, the paper and compass tell me where to go next.
addeejay, Ime is usually done with Narnain and The Cobbler, but yeah plenty of folks, well the really keen ones, will combine Ime with Vane but bear in mind it will quite possibly be rough walking. It's also a fair drop between the two.
Also it looks as if the cloud will be down on Saturday, so you'll need nifty navigation to avoid the steep bits and hitting crags etc between those two peaks.
I had a wee day out myself yesterday and climbed Ben More. It was raining when I started, but soon ended up, by far, the worst conditions I have ever faced on a mountain. The wind was so strong that I was getting blown over every time I lifted a foot to take a step. I went on my arse a few times. I was absolutely soaking wet. Never been so wet in my puff. I found myself wandering back down the mountain after ten minutes at the summit (that was enough, have a look at the video). Turns out I got completely disoriented and ended up walking round to the wrong side of the mountain. It was only because the clouds cleared for a few seconds to reveal Stob Binnein in the distance that I knew I was way off track. The map was useless up there (45+mph wind anyone). So I took a breath and headed back to the summit. I re-pointed myself from there and eventually found the faint trail. It took ages to get down too, as the water was starting to make its way off the mountain. So what had been walkable in the morning was not a stream or bog.
Well, that is another one climbed this year. I might retire at that... till the spring.
I think it's worth finding out where your limits lie weather wise. You need to be wary of summit fever too, and very much so as we move into winter.
I crawled the last couple of 100 feet up onto Conival a couple of years ago, madness. A bit of summit fever got hold of me that day. It did kind of work out as I knew I should get shelter across the ridge to Ben More Assynt, so I pressed on. And it did work out, it was like somebody switched the wind machine off as I dropped down onto the ridge between the two. Heading back, a good look at the map helped me determine that when heading back off Conival, once I'd left the madness of the summit plateaux if I dropped off the ridge to the west a tad I might get a little shelter from the NE winds. It worked treat. Though still left me with a scary approach to the down scramble of the bealach, so was back on my hands and knees for that wee bit.
Another thing I find with high winds is it renders my poles useless. So the wind and no poles makes taking a tumble much more likely. But yeah I leaned one of my weather limits that day. Was fun but not intention of trying such madness again.
Keep your map on the page you need in a map case. Your map should not be rendered useless under any circumstances (though yeah wee accidents do happen!) Get an Ortlieb one, they are worth the extra and will last much longer than the cheap ones. If you know where you are (like on the summit) you should always be able to head in roughly the right direction on a compass bearing. If the cloud is down keep an eye on that compass. If you get blown about, and dodge round a few rocks or whatever it's so easy to end up heading in the wrong direction.
One way of navigating when the cloud is down is time and direction.
I do like my GPS, it's pretty accurate and very reassuring tae ken exactly where you are. So with GPS, even in a white out, you can still take a compass bearing with reference to your map with very reasonable confidence. It may have saved my bacon a few times!
Should still be time for some more big, or biggish hills depending on the weather. But once there's been a few good falls of snow yeah you need to do a bit of thinking before you head to the hills and you would need to invest a bit more in kit.
Meanwhile I'm still stuffed. Just about managing not to loose all my fitness, but still got some sort of hip issue. I think it's a muscular issue. So following my physio's advice I'm gonna start my swimming regime tomorrow. How I hate swimming and bleedin swimming pools.
That's five months I've been struggling now. Gonna be gutted if I don't start making some decent progress soon. Winter hill walking can be absolutely magical. I only go on good weather days and when the snow should be stable and on straight forward routes, but always well kitted out for possible bad weather and carrying the usual axe and crampons should they be required.
Solid advice. Although in order to learn your limits, first you must pass them.
My map pocket was in the house, clearly not the best place for it. Waterproof/windproof gloves? In work. Waterproof trousers? In my bag. I put them on after I got soaked. Clean dry clothes to change in to? Loads of them at home, several hours away. That was the least prepared and worst conditioned mountain walk yet. I clearly was taken by summit fever. I knew it at the time. I sat and had my lunch at a small section that seemed to have the wind machine turned off, as you say. I got a text from my good lady asking how I was. I thought... The water is dripping from my phone and from the inside of my jacket and my waterproof socks had become little bacteria swimming pools. My middle toe on the right foot was shredded to bits. My exposed face was in pain and everything in me said - STOP. GO BACK AND DO THIS ANOTHER DAY. For reasons best known to my subconscious, I ignored my gut, which has served me well over the years, and continued. Almost at the expense of a looooonnnnnggggg night on a cold, wet mountain.
Lesson learned. I would have felt a right fanny if I had to spend a night up there. That would not have been fun. And yesterday was not any better, so it would have been the same again.
I might take my GPS as back up next time. Just in case.
Good luck with your swimming and recovery.
Not quite sure what to do with my early mid-life crisis. Ideas on a post card to P.O.BOX 150...
I tend to keep most of my stuff in my walking bag ready to go.
A quick check before you head out the door is a good idea.
You did well without gloves! Bloody norra. Absolutely essential this time of year.
A lot of people carry two pairs of gloves in winter (and basically it's winter up them hills now). Losing a glove can be a disaster. Can be bloody painful too defrosting a paw.
It can though be invigorating going out in wild weather.
Anyway weather forecasts are pretty accurate these days. I start losing interest fast if it's less than 60% chance clear tops and 40mph winds or higher. Worth paying attention to the cloud base, smaller hills can be clear tops when the bigger hills are in the clouds. For me it's all about that view.
I think also if it's an iffy day and you still want to head out, bear in mind the further you drive to get to the bottom of the hill, ie the more effort you put in getting there the more likely hood you have of suffering a wee dose of summit fever.
Did you do Vane and Ime? Was wondering if you did how that went. My guess is that it could be hard going between those two.
Oh GPS. Mine is a Satmap. Had it for about 4 years now. You can do all sorts of stuff with it. But the main thing is that it has OS maps loaded and shows you exactly where you are on the OS map. I know loads of people tut tut about the use of GPS, but I feel I've improved my navigation with it. It's never let me down yet, but you've also got to bear in mind that electronic devices can decided to retire just when you need em most. Bear in mind the compass built into the GPS is pish. Also the GPS only shows you so much, I find I need to look at the map to get a feel of where I am and where to go next if I'm in the cloud. So map and compass is still essential.
Went to the pool this morning. It's hard work getting anywhere wi just yer legs! Made a start, so see how it goes. Desperate for some fine cold settled winter weather and a day in the hills.
(25-10-14, 03:34 PM)VNA link Wrote: I For me it's all about that view.
but you've also got to bear in mind that electronic devices can decided to retire just when you need em most. Bear in mind the compass built into the GPS is pish. Also the GPS only shows you so much, I find I need to look at the map to get a feel of where I am and where to go next if I'm in the cloud. So map and compass is still essential.
Went to the pool this morning. It's hard work getting anywhere wi just yer legs! Made a start, so see how it goes. Desperate for some fine cold settled winter weather and a day in the hills.
It can be very dispiriting to put in all that effort only to find you can't see anything when you get up there! All that hard work needs some reward apart from just the fitness-building side of things I think.
Not keen on GPS etc for those very reasons you've stated Andy. I understand that they have their uses, but best to familiarise oneself with ordinary map and compass first, and always carry them at least as back up. But only being able to see a small part of the map at a time is the main reason I don't use them, and this goes for when I'm exploring on the bike too. I like to see my location in a broader context of the area I'm in at a glance. That I find important on a bike when you can cover a lot of ground very quickly, but I can also see how fiddling with a GPS/Satmap could be a problem in poor conditions in the hills. When your energy levels and concentration are taxed already by high winds, wet, and biting cold, having to move the display around on a tiny screen and trying to keep the bigger picture in your head is the last thing you need. Not to mention batteries can freeze too!
Sometimes those bad-weather experiences can come in handy though; help you to deal with them if encountered again, and not only in reminding you how important it is to have warm, waterproof clothes with you, even on the brightest of summer days.
Hope your recovery goes well Andy. Those cold, clear winter days can be the best ones; hot work climbing those hills!
I think my problem is muscular, at least I hope it is, hopefully just a matter of gently building strength (swimming) and doing all the stretches till things settle down. Hate swimming but I'll do anything to get back fit again.
I went for the GPS becuase I walk by myself. I guess I'm out for 4 reasons, the view, helps VNA stay sane, to take photos and exercise. It's the photos that screw up navigation, always stopping to take snaps. Also I don't want to care about time when I'm in the hills. Accurate navigation is all about time, distance direction. So I don't fit the rules, and frankly I don't care for 'the rules'.
Yes I need and use the map. Aye if the cloud is down I take my direction from the compass. But the GPS serves one essential function that a map cannot when the cloud is down or there is a white out. It tells me exactly where I am.
I've been lost before and didn't like it one bit.
You can also have your planned route superimposed on the map, so you can see where you are in relation to where you intended to be :lol
This is the GPS I use. Mine is the older lower res Active 10 version.
Oh you can work that thing with gloved hands - no problem. No touch screen crap, buttons and a joystick thing you can work wi big gloves on. It automatically puts you in the centre of the screen (ie your position).
If you set the power setting up correctly it will run for days and days on one charge.
I use the rechargable li-on battery, but it will also run off AA Mi-Mh batteries and it runs pretty good on them too.
I take it wi me on days out on the bike too. Brilliant for finding those red phone boxes I have a thing about (I know I know I need help! :eek )
When I went out with my mate the other week we went to the area between Ben Narnain, Ben Ime and Ben Vane. I gave him the choice of which he preferred to climb. He chose Ben Narnain. Unfortunately we got to within 100 meters of the Trig-point and his vertigo kicked in big time. His legs basically gave out. I went on another 100 or so feet to check how close we were, whilst still having him in sight. I shouted over to him that I could see the trig point and that we were almost there. But he really could not continue. We sat for a bit, then (very slowly) began to make our way down. He said to me that I could go to the summit and pick him up on the way back. I declined and sat and had a fag with him instead.
I have been good friends with this guy for about 15 years. He introduced me to my wife to be. I really had no idea that he got the fear in that way. I also have vertigo, of sorts. But I also like to put myself in situations where I get the fear and push myself past it. I felt for him and he is determined to overcome this, and as his friend I will help him every step of the way. We will be back, and this time he knows what to expect.
As to Ben Ime and Ben Vane in a 'wanner, I will do that myself. It will require a reasonable level of fitness and some serious head down, heart rate up climbing if I am to achieve both summits in the short days of winter. I don't fancy another "episode" on the mountains. :lol
Not quite sure what to do with my early mid-life crisis. Ideas on a post card to P.O.BOX 150...
It does sound like a good job for a hill lover. I think the risks would be reduced by the fact that you would become very familiar with this particular hill, and that they are looking for someone with the right experience, after all. So that's me out. I'm not at all experienced in dealing with poor conditions, don't have any experience of using ice axe and crampons, no knowledge of assessing avalanche conditions, and have limited experience with map and compass. All my walks so far have been done in at least reasonable conditions.
But also, I'm always interested in doing new routes and getting different views - think you could get bored with doing the same hill day in, day out.
But I'm still not sure what it's all about. I can't help but think it's the English version of our Avalanche Information Service - http://www.sais.gov.uk/
Basically the Avalanche service dudes climb up to the same locations each day, yup they note the weather, note the behaviour of the snow and crucially dig big holes in the snow and check the snow pack. And they post their results online.
You gotta be a hardy bastard to do that. It'll have to be pretty extreme weather to stop those dudes from going out and doing their checks. Fantastic service though and we are very lucky to have it.
If I'm going out on the hill in winter the two sites I check are;
I need good conditions on both or I'm generally not interested.
You gotta remember too that any slope that holds snow is a potential risk. People tend to think avalanches are big dramatic things, but the reality is a small amount of snow can slip and bury you. Or of course you can bounce off stuff as you slide downhill.
I don't really go 'hiking' or 'mountain climbing' - I climb and boulder as a hobby, but normally that's as close as I get. If the opportunity comes around, I go and see some spectacular things though:
(this is my friend, not me. The previous pic is me though)
Today I climbed my first mountain of the year. Well, the first two, actually. [color=rgb(49, 52, 50)]Cruach Ardrain and Beinn Tulaichean were the order of the day. And what a day it was. It was a REALLY hard walk. Up and down, up again, down again. All day. The weather went from raining, to heavy snow, to blazing sunshine, some fog, wind, t-shirt warm and down jacket cold. Typical Scottish weather then.[/color] [/size][/color]
[/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size]We stopped for something to eat behind a large crag. My mate said to me "have a look at this", and I stood up to see. Unfortunatly the wind took my bag, which was sitting beside me, and fired it down the mountain. Like a scene from Fawlty Towers, my camera bag came flying out the rucksack. Then the camera came flying out the camera bag. And they all took a tumble about 500 vertical feet down the mountain. We could do nothing but wait to see when, and if, they would stop. They did, after traversing snow, rock, moss and more.[/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size][/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size]My mate felt guilty as it was him that said - look over here. He insisted on retrieving it. Who am I to say no? I did get a picture of him about 30ft from the camera bag. Its the first image.[/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size][/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size]On the way back we took right fork instead of the left. Basically because it was heavy snow on the way up and we never even seen the fork. That resulted in a questionable scramble and climb down some serious faces. There was one point we had to jump from moss on to a little pointed rock. It was only 5ft down, but getting it wrong meant a broken bone at best. I was a bit apprehensive, but did it anyway. The thought of climbing back up those faces did not appeal. [/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size][/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size]It took us about 8 hours and I recon we covered 18-20km at least. [/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size][/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)][/size]My right knee is gubbed, my legs are tired and I'm just about falling asleep. All in all it was a great day.[/color][color=rgb(49, 52, 50)]
Not quite sure what to do with my early mid-life crisis. Ideas on a post card to P.O.BOX 150...
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