Gen 2 intermittent starting.

[noggythenog]

My Gen 2 has developed an issue whereby sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't.......but it is always turning over. there isn't really any pattern to it, cold, warm, start of the day, end of the day....just really random.


Usually starts within a second of pressing the starter switch and when running all is well.....but when it doesn't want to start it will just keep turning over until i switch off the ignition and try again.....sometimes 2 attempts, sometimes 3 or 4 and then it fires up...then next time i stop then it might just start within a second of the first attempt again.


When it has its funny turn then the engine trouble warning light flashes off and on until it fires and then it goes off.


Initial power up on the dash initiation is always the same and i always get all the same noises from the bike priming itself etc.


I believe if there was an electrical circuit fault then there is a self diagnosis device fitted and that there would then be fault code displayed where the clock time is usually displayed......i dont have any codes there....just the clock.


Just thought id ask if anyone has any suggestions to give me a head start when i talk to my garage about them checking it out so I'm not completely in the dark as i can do some googling beforehand.


Is the engine light flashing during the turning over normal?....as in on lots of engines cars and bikes you can have dash lights on until the engine starts and then they go out..........or is it genuinely indicating a fault.....if so then why no code???


What are the likely culprits???


I have oxford heated grips fitted and I've heard a few stories about them causing issues with bikes.....could they be the culprit???.....i dont really need them for my summer riding.


I dont have any electrical diagnostic tools....im just after some rough suggestions.....as said once the bike is running it goes well.


Could it just be something as simple as the battery being a bit goosed?


Any suggestions welcomed and listened to.......nobody likes an askhole :lol


Cheers


Nog

[slappy]

The first things I would check are the sidestand switch and the kill switch . Give them a good clean first. Then  check the electrics on the ignition circuit, again make sure they are all clean and any multiplugs are corrosion free and tight fitting.

[noggythenog]

The first things I would check are the sidestand switch and the kill switch . Give them a good clean first. Then  check the electrics on the ignition circuit, again make sure they are all clean and any multiplugs are corrosion free and tight fitting.

Cheers slappy........so tank off job and have a little fiddle around with any connectors that i can find.......i still havent looked under there so will be good to take a look.......theres some snipped wires coming off the left switchgear and down by the fairing.....previous owner says that they are to do with the previously installed tom tom but i have my doubts......another avenue i suppose.


I had half thought of the side stand and i was flicking it up and down a few times over my last rideout.........however.....if it was side stand or kill switch then wouldnt it just be dead instead of turning over???

[slimwilly]

Mine did that not long after i bought it,,in the end it was the battery, a new motobatt and all sorted,


it turned over fine but that took all the available power, pissed me off for a while.

[slappy]

You're probably right about the engine not turning over if it was the sidestand but it is an easy check to do.
As for the wires you mention that have been cut I would try to trace them to see what they might be still connected to.

[noggythenog]

Cheers geezers


It's a good excuse for me to piss about and take a look underneath.....ive been lazy as to take off the tank it looks like i take off the tank plastic thingy and the bolts are impossible to get to without taking out the infills which is just irksome.....my gut also says battery and if thats what yours did slim then it could just be that simple.....i might be able to blag a few more rideouts on this one yet and then ill prob buy a new one for next season instead of using it briefly and then having it sat all winter.......would also explain no error code on the self diagnostics.


Im decided on keeping the thou now so i just want to get a few of these bits n bobs sorted out and il have the stealer do a good service and check over next season.


Ta


Nog 8)

[esetest]

Borrow a multimeter and check the battery.

[noggythenog]

Well i got the battery out and ive stuck it on charge but i might well just buy a new one as it's nice to know a batteries history and start afresh.


Also checked out the loose wires...definately not from the tom tom......big clump of them all snipped off and taped up...dodgy dodgy!....foc knows....perhaps it was something to do with a mod at some point like exup removal or whatever i dunno just guessing...totally beyond me.


Also whipped up the tank & decided to take a deek at the air filter.......something tells me it needs replacing!......think ill order a K&N panel filter unless it isnt recomended without a power commander.

[ogri48]

I've got a stock air filter with my pc3 mate. I'd say it was the battery nog..

[noggythenog]

I've got a stock air filter with my pc3 mate. I'd say it was the battery nog..

Sounds like it Ogri doesnt it...& since slim had the exact same symptoms it makes sense.


So need to find a decent quality battery now.....yuasa seem to be the leaders but thats all ive really seen...had one on my 600 and it was good.


There's also quite a bit of grime on top of the air inlet thingies.....looking down on them they are covered in dust & grime so im guessing that it is crap that has gone through the filter......could do with some kind of spray down there to give it a bit of a clean.......any suggestions what i could use?.....im thinking WD40 will create a dust attracting film so maybe not best to use.


Regards the air filter...i do like quality so I've saved a K&N to my amazon shopping basket...£42 but at least it'll be good. 8)




Turning into a bit of a noggy SOS thread this aint it  :rolleyes






Actually I'm off again to try find you those extra bits for the camera.

[slappy]

Your air filter looks just like the one I took out of mine! I put a k&n in, makes a lovely induction noise now.

[noggythenog]

Your air filter looks just like the one I took out of mine! I put a k&n in, makes a lovely induction noise now.

Thats what id like....i love the noise of the gen2 already in full chatter so any improvement even if it is just noise will make me happy. 8)

[slimwilly]

Do the airbox mod and K and n,, then listen to the induction growl,,its awesome

[Dave48]

My thoughts are the battery. Enough juice to crank engine but maybe insufficient to fire spark plugs?
While you have the tank up/seat off check all your electrical connectors-open up & check for any corrosion. clean & spray ACF 50 in them.
Your air filter looks shot-the K&N will transform your bikes breathing.
the winter months are a good time to do all these little jobs-then when you come out of hibernation you know the bike is "good to go" :lol

[lew600fazer]

Bit confused here, there is enough juice to crank the engine over, sometimes it starts sometimes it does not? is that right. When it fails to start are you then putting the battery on charge?
My gen 2 is probably going to need a new battery soon as it needs charging if I do not use the bike for a couple of weeks. There is not enough juice to turn the engine over.
From what I am picking up on your post there is still enough juice to crank over the engine , is it turning over at the correct speed or is it labouring to turn over? If it is labouring okay may be a battery issue but if not I think you have a problem elsewhere. I am no great shakes at motorcycle maintainence but sounds to me as if you could have a fuelling issue or a breakdown to the spark plug leads. Looking at your air filter , oh boy now that is filthy.
Lew

[stevierst]

Do the airbox mod and K and n,, then listen to the induction growl,,its awesome

I did this with a BMC filter and full air box mod (same thing really) makes an awesome induction noise!!!

As for your intermittent starting....... You say it cranks over but doesn't fire? If it isn't the battery, then Tank off, and one by one pull the connectors apart and use electrical grease or connector treatment liberally to treat them. If it doesn't work, at least you have peace of mind that the connectors are not at fault, and they're protected from our glorious British weather!

[ogri48]

Cranking does draw enormous ampage from the battery mate, if it's iffy thestarterwillbetaking all the juice and leaving very little for a good spark.
Induction noise is a lovely thing without a doubt...K &  N or BMC  sounds like the way forward

[tony_d123]

Are the rogue wires from an alarm that's been removed? I had a dodgy Datatool alarm that would intermittently stop the bike starting but it wouldn't even turn over.

[tony_d123]

Not sure if it's any use in your case as you don't seem to get any error codes, but just wondered whether you can run a diagnostic check to see any historic error codes? copied from the US Fazer forum:-

Codes for Gen II with explanation. Next time it acts up, get it into diagnostics mode.

1) Turn key to off
2) Turn ignition kill switch to run
3) Hold the select and reset button at the same time
4) Turn the key to run
5) Continue to hold the two buttons and count to about 10 at this point the display will show "d1"
6) Release the two buttons
7) Repress both buttons for 2 sec and the display will show d:01_____17

The 17 that I get, can be anything from 15-18. This is the throttle position reading. As you S L O W L Y roll on the throttle, the number on the dash has to roll smoothly up to between 95 and 100 at WOT

If you get any jumping or holes in the numbers the TPS is the issue and must be repaired.

Here is all of the codes that I have found as you scan thru them.

01 - Throttle position sensor signal
02 - Atmospheric pressure Displays the atmospheric
03 - Intake air pressure Displays the cylinder-#1
05 - Intake air temperature Displays the intake air temperature.
06 - Coolant temperature Displays the coolant temperature.
07 - Vehicle speed pulse 0–999 Check that the number
08 - Lean angle sensor Remove the lean angle
09 - Fuel system voltage
20 - Sidestand switch Set ON/OFF the sidestand
21 - Neutral switch Set ON/OFF the neutral
30 - Cylinder-#1 ignition coil Actuates the cylinder-#1 ignition
31 - Cylinder-#2 ignition coil Actuates the cylinder-#2 ignition
32 - Cylinder-#3 ignition coil Actuates the cylinder-#3 ignition
33 - Cylinder-#4 ignition coil Actuates the cylinder-#4 ignition
36 - Injector #1 Actuates the injector #1 five
37 - Injector #2 Actuates the injector #2 five
38 - Injector #3 Actuates the injector #3 five
39 - Injector #4 Actuates the injector #4 five
48 - Air induction system solenoid
50 - Fuel injection system relay Actuates the fuel injection
51 - Radiator fan motor relay Actuates the radiator fan
52 - Headlight relay Actuates the headlight relay
53 - Exup servo motor Actuate the servo motor turns
56 - Sub-throttle servo motor Actuate the servo motor turns
60 - EEPROM fault cylinder No
61 - Malfunction history code
62 - Malfunction history code
63 - Malfunction code reinstate

And here are the ECU error codes

11 - Cylinder identification sensor
12 - Crankshaft position sensor
13 - Intake air pressure sensor
14 - Intake air pressure sensor hose line
15 - Throttle position sensor (open or short circuit)
16 - Throttle position sensor (stuck)
17 - EXUP servo motor potention circuit
18 - EXUP servo motor (stuck)
19 - Sidestand switch (open circuit in the
20 - Intake air pressure sensor or atmospheric
21 - Coolant temperature sensor
22 - Intake air temperature sensor
23 - Atmospheric pressure sensor
24 - O2 sensor No normal signal is received from the O2 sensor.
30 - Lean angle sensor (latch up detected)
33 - Cylinder-#1 ignition coil
34 - Cylinder-#2 ignition coil
35 - Cylinder-#3 ignition coil
36 - Cylinder-#4 ignition coil
39 - Injector (open circuit)
41 - Lean angle sensor (open or short-circuit)
42 - Speed sensor No normal signals are received from the speed sensor.
43 - Fuel system voltage (monitoring voltage)
44 - Error in writing the amount of CO adjustment
46 - Vehicle system power supply
47 - Sub-throttle servo motor potention (open
48 - Monitor the operation of the sensors and
48 - Sub-throttle servo motor (lock)
50 - ECU internal malfunction (memory check error)


The check engine light comes on if you have an error code, and the code itself shows up in place of the odo.

[noggythenog]

Thanks for all the help....i do listen so on my Amazon shopping list is as follows:-

• K&N YA-1006 replacement air filter
  
• Motobatt quad flex heavy duty battery
  
• ACF50 motorcycle & automotive all metal anti corrosion spray
  
• Kong extreme ball small
  

Happy days!......& it would be rude to not do the airbox mod whatever it is.....it is free so therefore is a must have...ill need to check youtube for it.


& cheers for all those codes Tony......ill try the easy stuff first but at least i k ow what to do after that if i still have no luck.....interestingly the service manual makes no mention of that procedure for the fault diagnosis.....it basically just says turn on the ignition and you get a code where the clock is if there's a fault.


& good shout on possible alarm wires...you could be onto something there as i really dont think these wires are causing the issue...im just curious to figure out what they are....ill get round to properly tracing them.