Scottish independence

[VNA]

Mickvp,

What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.

It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period.  What's the point?

Much of what you are refering  to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government.  Remember that will be a government that we will have elected, and that will be answerable to us. 

Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change.  My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro.  We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.

Take a chance on it?  There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.

What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?

Now there's a thing :evil .  Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union?  Probably not- eh?

[bri h]

If memory serves when tony blairs own back benchers voted against  raising university fees the scottish mps were bribed into voting for him. It would be nice to have english mps voting on English issues.

[fazersharp]

So what about the blue bit in the flag then

Edit---- will we keep it if they go

[bri h]

The blue bit is for chelsea.

[ChristoT]

If memory serves when tony blairs own back benchers voted against  raising university fees the scottish mps were bribed into voting for him. It would be nice to have english mps voting on English issues.

I was wondering how long it would take to bring up the West Lothian question!  :lol

[fazersharp]

Ah---------- yes the west lothian question

But will we still keep the blue bit in the flag

[slimwilly]

Me and my wife got married in Gretna green ( i am a lesbo(new wench from last night) lover)


We have a tin of Tartan shortbread at Christmas.


And i saw Andy Murray on the telly playing tennis.


Does this mean i am Scottish ?

[nick crisp]

VNA, you ARE Alex Salmond, and I claim my £5!  :lol

You seem to know more about what will happen than anyone else. Which is kind of par for the course, as the only ones who are certain they are right are the independance lobby. Oh, wait a minute, they include all the brightest economists and politicians in the world, right? I would suggest that no one really knows what the outcome of Scottish independance would be - what, for instance, will be the debt situation for Scotland after? For as many of one opinion on any aspect you can find, you will find as many opposite/contrary opinions. Why should anyone trust what YOU say on the subject? Are you not doing exactly the same as Salmond, just brow beating everyone into your way of thinking? You are exactly the kind of person who clouds the debate with rhetoric.

I don't claim to know an awful lot about the outcomes. But this is because we don't get informed by reasoned debate from qualified people. That's what this issue really needs before a single vote is taken in a referendum - or do you look down your nose on all those who aren't well informed (i.e. the majority) and say well, let me decide for you cos I know it all?

[mtread]

I was wondering how long it would take to bring up the West Lothian question!

The blue bit is for chelsea.

I was wondering how long it would take to bring up the West London question!

[midden]

Mickvp,

What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.


It's almost worth the split just to see how much a government elected in Scotland by the Scottish for the Scottish would actually follows the wishes of the Scottish commoner once elected in

It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period.  What's the point?

Much of what you are refering  to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government.  Remember that will be a government that we will have elected,


'Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted' springs to mind

and that will be answerable to us.


not the large Corporates supportng the economy then




Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change. 


could be damaged if the service sector decides to move out


My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro.  We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.


If you kept the pound without a currency union it would be your own created currency 'the Scottish pound, or poond) and since staying in Europe is so important surely Scotland should be wanting EU currency union.

Take a chance on it?  There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.


Hmmm

What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?

Now there's a thing :evil .  Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union?  Probably not- eh?

[midden]

- or do you look down your nose on all those who aren't well informed (i.e. the majority) and say well, let me decide for you cos I know it all?

Enter George Orwell
All animals are equal except some are more equal than others 

[lew600fazer]

Mickvp,

What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.

It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period.  What's the point?

Much of what you are refering  to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government.  Remember that will be a government that we will have elected, and that will be answerable to us. 

Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change.  My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro.  We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.

Take a chance on it?  There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.

What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?

Now there's a thing :evil .  Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union?  Probably not- eh?

Mickvp,

What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.

It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period.  What's the point?

Much of what you are refering  to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government.  Remember that will be a government that we will have elected, and that will be answerable to us. 

Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change.  My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro.  We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.

Take a chance on it?  There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.

What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?

Now there's a thing :evil .  Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union?  Probably not- eh?

Up until I read this thread VNA I thought you were serious, now I realise you are taking the piss, (Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change) A statement like more oil than Kuwait? thing is the population of kuwait is only 3.2 million Kuwait has a proven oil reserve of 104 BILLION Barrels(produces 7% of the worlds oil production. Salmonds estimation is 20, 25 30 BILLION barrels, great he is only guessing.
Try spending a Scottish £10.00 down in England (no fecker wants it, best way to off load it is top up with petrol and then go in and pay with it. More often than not they will say not taking that mate, Ah!! all I have got, mate so unless you want to suck the petrol out of my tank, take the Hooters £10 note.

One thing I think the English should insist on is IF SCOTLAND VOTE FOR INDEPENDANCE that fecking wall should go back up, the one the Roman fella built and all OAT MEAL SAVAGES living in what remains of the UNITED KINGDOM should be deported.
If the vote is to maintain Scotland within the UK, Salmond and his Cronies should bet tried for treason

[midden]

Don't think Hadrian to small and besides it cost too much relocating it.
Better think Game of thrones wall. That'll keep the beasties oot and our tax dodging (allegedly) bricklayers in work for some years. even be enough for our Polish brothers

[VNA]

what, for instance, will be the debt situation for Scotland after?

Well that's another reason why there will be a currency union.  If there is no currency union, then Scotland is free to walk away from UK debt.  Under a currency union we will have to shoulder our fair share of the debt.

Why should anyone trust what YOU say on the subject?

It's not a matter of trusting poor old VNA!  But what is clear is that Scotland would if Independent elect a government of it's own choice, not have England choose a government for us.

Let me put it this way.  Scotland has 5 million people.  England has 50 million people.  England clearly drives in a different political direction from Scotland.  In crude terms you could say England is right wing, and Scotland is left wing.  But Scotland is dragged along in the right wing neo con direction against it's will because we are 5 million votes against 50 million. 

The Scottish Parliament has acted as a buffer, diluting the worst of the English neo con madness.  But it's only a buffer, we are still left swimming against the tide, and that tide is dragging out further out.

Also I like small government, government that is readily accessible and accountable.  Westminster is big, remote and aloof. 

Are you not doing exactly the same as Salmond, just brow beating everyone into your way of thinking?

The SNP has virtually no media support, it's attacked on all sides relentlessly, but despite this it has achieved what is supposed to be absolutely impossible - this referendum.  It's utterly ridiculous and unfounded this accusation that somehow Wee Eck is a big bully brow beating people into submission.  It's laughable.

I don't claim to know an awful lot about the outcomes. But this is because we don't get informed by reasoned debate from qualified people. That's what this issue really needs before a single vote is taken in a referendum - or do you look down your nose on all those who aren't well informed (i.e. the majority) and say well, let me decide for you cos I know it all?

I think at the end of the day everybody in Scotland should be making their own mind up Nick.  I'm a political animal, though I'm not out actively campaigning on this issue, but if you ask me my opinion, I'll offer it to you.

There's a lot of information out there, this is an important issue.  And I think in the next few months people will get more and more interested in this debate.  I'd also expect a big turn out on this one, it's potentially a once in a life time vote and the biggest thing this wee country will ever get to vote on.

Me and my wife got married in Gretna green ( i am a lesbo(new wench from last night) lover)


We have a tin of Tartan shortbread at Christmas.


And i saw Andy Murray on the telly playing tennis.


Does this mean i am Scottish ?

slimwilly, if you live in Scotland, and you are on the Scottish electoral roll, then you are in effect Scottish, even if you are English    

[VNA]

One thing I think the English should insist on is IF SCOTLAND VOTE FOR INDEPENDANCE that fecking wall should go back up, the one the Roman fella built and all OAT MEAL SAVAGES living in what remains of the UNITED KINGDOM should be deported.

Oh no, no, no.  You'd need to move it sooth a bit.  We want Yorkshire.  I like Yorkshire, a lot of us do.  And it used to be ours.  We want it back.

[nick crisp]

One thing I think the English should insist on is IF SCOTLAND VOTE FOR INDEPENDANCE that fecking wall should go back up, the one the Roman fella built and all OAT MEAL SAVAGES living in what remains of the UNITED KINGDOM should be deported.

Oh no, no, no.  You'd need to move it sooth a bit.  We want Yorkshire.  I like Yorkshire, a lot of us do.  And it used to be ours.  We want it back.

Oh shit, our sovreign's children have all died and he's fallen off a cliff - let's invite the English king in to govern us - make up yer feckin minds!  :lol

[midden]

what, for instance, will be the debt situation for Scotland after?

Well that's another reason why there will be a currency union.  If there is no currency union, then Scotland is free to walk away from UK debt.  Under a currency union we will have to shoulder our fair share of the debt.
 

Surely as with all divorces the proportion of debt will be offset when sharing out the gold. Thus the more debt we can show Scotland responsible for  (say like the cost for constructing and maintaining that parliament building) the less gold share they'll get

[VNA]

Surely as with all divorces the proportion of debt will be offset when sharing out the gold. Thus the more debt we can show Scotland responsible for  (say like the cost for constructing and maintaining that parliament building) the less gold share they'll get [img alt=]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/img]

Aye but remember, nae currency union, nae debt sharing. 

That's the problem 'better together have', they keep getting found out, their silly childish threats are nothing but bluff and blunder (does that sound enougth like Wee Eck fae ye Nick?).

That bloody building was foisted upon us by England, no doubt to try and make the Scottish Parliament look ridiculous, and gave us our first controversy.  Of course it was portrayed as the first act of the Scottish Parliament itself, which of course was another popular media myth. 

[nick crisp]

Pointless thread is pointless.
I'm not going to learn anything here, just a load of mudslinging  :rolleyes

[rustyrider]

There's an interesting parallel here.  Crimea is a region within the state of Ukraine.  Crimea recently had a referendum on whether it wanted to remain part of the Ukraine or become part of Russia.  The result was, allegedly, that a resounding majority wanted to become part of Russia.  Now the EU, NATO, UN and various other acronyms have all stated that the referendum is illegal as it would have needed to be a referendum over all of the independent state of Ukraine and not just the region of Crimea.

Following that logic, surely the vote for Scottish independence should be open to everyone that is likely to be affected, the entire UK?